what do you mean by "hacking"?

 

Commonly known as "flashing"

 

Adjusting AFR just like a power commander would, increasing redline limit, etc. Basically I hope to do everything that a PC can do, and more. It looks like the ecu runs off of a motorola 68HC16 (16-bit microprocessor), and I've done some assembly language editing in school on these type microprocessors so I don't think it's too tall of an order. There is this app called enginuity from the WR-X forums that other kawi modders have used on the same type 16-bit microprocessors used inside of ecus. It looks like I'm going to be starting from scratch, but that's ok. I just got a used ecu for $30 shipped so we'll see what is possible once I get it in my hands.

 

Keep us posted. Sounds very intriguing. I would like to see what your results are.

 

Its a good thing to know assembly, I myself have only tried it on X86 processors.

Though I think you may not need to fiddle with the cpu and all-
What you need to do is find a way to remove the EEPROM memory ,assemble a reader for it, and just alter the maps stored there.

Only problem is I don't think its removable in our ECU, soldering may be required to put it back...

 

sorry for the long delay on this thread, been super busy with school and work, but I have managed to get the ecu grinded down to see the actual PCB layout. I'll post pics later if anyone's really that interested. Now, I'm just working on pinouts on the ecu to see if i can program it from the wiring harness or if I have to use the BDM connector on the actual PCB. I really hope not, but as of right now, it is looking that way...I'll keep you guys posted on what I find.

 

I'm interested keep me posted.

 

theres a dedicated site here http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=1 , Im trying to learn more about it but its gonna take a while. on suzukihayabusa.org you can speak to smithabusa and he has harnesses for our bikes that you can hook up to romraider and start playing around I havent heard too much about our models but it has and is being done The hayabusa's use ECU editor which is apparently alot more user freindly Ive heard people have modified looms to run more popular ECU's. Im a bit busy at the moment but once my bike is done Im going to be havin a go at this myself. keep us posted

 

yeah, I have been reading up on what ridgeracer has done. That is what got me started into this to begin with. I know there is a harness you can put on the 04-05's but I was not aware of someone already hooking it up for our generation bikes. I'll most definately check that out.

 

I have a 03 ecu coming for my 01 1K so i can reprograme when bin files are available, not exactly the electronic savvy type so i best leave the cracking to those that can and pay for the service,
Using Rom raider on my busa, so much more functionality than the powercommanders.

 

Little update: Here are some pics of the ECU I've grinded down:

The front, along with a comparison of what I started with:

The back:

The processor:

This microprocessor is the same type that RidgeRacer used on the ZX-12's so that means that we have a great chance of getting info off of this bad boy
Unfortunately, it looks like we are going to have to use the BDM port. So, that harness that rotamonkey was talking about is not going to work! GAH! :sad I was really hoping that we could bypass it, but there are components purposefully missing from the ECU so that programming can not be done through the front door. If someone has a Teka EFI programmer, maybe they can bring some insight to this thread as I am curious how it programs AFR's into the system.

That brings us to the wiring diagram:

See lots of gaps in between the wiring? There's missing information there that we need to find in order to program the ECU to custom settings. So, I started tracing out wiring to see if I could fill in those large gaps of wiring mystery. That was taking too long, so I walked away in frustration (walked is such an understatement ) and then when I came back a few hours later I came across this little gem in the top right corner of the ECU:

That, my friends, is the labeling for each pin on the first 34-pin connector on the ECU pin 1 is the top right (IG1), pin 9 is bottom right, (IREL), pin 10 is IG4, and so on till we get to pin 34 as bottom left (COV4). Pins 29-34 were previously unknown until I found this. What I was looking for was the "Flash and Program" voltage pin (VFP) and as you can see, it is labeled clearly as pin 29. This coincidentally coincides with the programminig pin that RideRacer found on his ZX-12. Schweet! This means that we have the majority of all of the hard work done for us.

So, now I need two things to keep going: The BDM programmer cable and the software prog16z to go with it. Unfortunately, I don't have an extra $370 to dish out to get this right now so I am looking for other options.
I have been reading and looking for a way to make an interface that mimics the BDM programmer cable, and found this public domain schematic from the manufacturer of the microprocessor:
http://www.btinternet.com/~j_holland/denso/docs/AN1230.pdf

Eureka! right? Actually, no. That public domain pinout does not work with the P&E interface that we are trying to work with here (SUCK!!!). So I went back to the drawing board for a few days and today came across what I think might be our ticket to building the hardware cheap:
http://www.btinternet.com/~j_holland/denso/docs/bdm_interface.pdf

I talked with the guy who designed that circuit above (RhinoPower) and he said he had problems with the circuit cutting out on him, but we'll see after I get it built.

Right now, what I really need is a copy of that stinking program so I can keep moving on this...

All in all, I am very optimistic about the possibility of programming this generation of motorcycles without a power commander. It always gets me so excited to think about the possibilities...:cheers:cheers

 

Very interesting, I'd like to see what results u get.

 

- BUMP -

Anyone ever used the Teka SFI? If you've used it, how would you rate it?
Can anyone put some pics up of the connector on it?

 

I got all the wiring Schemes for these bikes.. colour and Pin number identified if thats what your after

 

I'm interested in your results, I have two extra ECU's lying around

 

There's a guy on here that has software, ROMs, and directions to hook it up via USB. Even where to cut open the stock ECU. In wicked detail.

 

Yeah, I think you are talking about the newer gens of bikes. This gen is not that easily "hacked". The stuff I'm trying to do is currently much more expensive to do than those gens but I hope to change that
Reason why I'm asking about the sfi is bc you can supposedly change afr quite easily which puzzles me after looking at the circuitry...

 

Can't say you can do it or not. But one thing I can clear up, there has been a lot of rumors floating around that you can bypass a commander or custom tune by taking a newer generation gixxer to a local dealer and having the ecu custom tuned. A couple mechanics with Suzuki told me recently that it simply can't and hasn't been done. Being that the newer gereration ecu's are self adjusting. The guys have told me that it's just a bunch of bullshit rumors floating around on the net, which simply aren't true. Can't speak for older bikes and Im just basing that off of what I've been told by Suzuki.

 

This guy is selling the yoshi version cheap that might help,Ive already tried to buy it but dont think hes keen to sell to australia...

http://psychobike.com/forums/garage-sale/22137-yoshimura-fuel-adjuster.html

works for our model. suprising to see its so simple to adjust with this tool.

 

There ok for limited adjustment, i have one Adrian and your local suzuki dealer probably does too , very different map offsetting to true changing of the tables.

CrazyJack, if you posted this info on the hacking site i think you would get some good info from RR and associates, they seem very supportive of those taking the first steps in the hacking world... Good work ..

 

A read a thread about the yosh box on the hacking site right after I posted this...

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=11416962

Too bad, I was hoping this thing would be a little more helpful. surely someone at suzuki/yoshimura/teka... should have these ecu binary/map files. Its awesome to see progress but Im a programming illiterate so Ive got to take a back seat until the maps and software are available surely an ECU conversion (maybe using a busa ECU??then you could use ecueditor) wouldnt be that hard but I guess all the maps and other settings would be wrong but theres probably a good chance that they have similar if not the same sensors etc.

...actually remapping it would pretty much be like starting from scatch anyway so I guess if you were gonna do that you might as well get an aftermarket ecu... 1000 to 1000 probably would be better anyway goin off topic keep it goin crazyjack.

 

I'm sticking around here for the time being because I want to see what other suzuki riders experience is and to see if anyone around here has any more info. The guys on that forum do work on newer gen bikes mostly.
@ pearljam - aparently you (or the mechanics at Suzuki) haven't seen the link that TheGeek was talking about...makes tuning your bikes so freaking easy it's not even funny.

@ rota - check this out: someone already hacked a box apart for your enjoyment

I am looking to do a lot more than that though. Still trying to find a cheaper version of that software!!!

 

Yeah like I said, I didn't know much about it other than what Suzuki told me. just passing on the buck, so to speak. Thanks for the link. Interesting find, especially for those that don't know much about it. Thanks. But one question. If it's so easy ? Why would two Suzuki mechanics deny it ? I'm not debating this with you. I am just asking, why ? And if it's so easy, why don't they do it ? I am assuming, warranties and emmision controls ?

 

I will admit, it makes a ton more sense to do all this work to a 1000 vs my little 600 but I want to take up the challenge and see if I can apply any of my microprocessor class and electical engineering knowledge to my bike. Doing the hardware TRE is just not enough. I have problems when I enable the TRE on my bike. When riding on lower RPMs (<3500) and I go to WOT it acts like it wants to just die out completely. When I disable the TRE, everything is much better, although not perfect by any means.

Just finished reading through 65 pages of a SV forum where they hacked their ECUS and found this little gem: http://14point7.com/Widebands/JAW_1_041/JAW_1_041.htm
Looks like that might be a good option to check out once I start figuring out what maps are what on the ECU.

@pearljam - I am guessing that Suzuki is not going to train the average tuner at their shops to do this kind of advanced stuff. I mean, I have seen some pretty bad work from the stealership so I could see why they keep this kind of stuff out of their hands. Emissions probably plays a large role in it as well. Oh, and I am pretty sure that this would most definately void your warranty, unless you could flash the ECU back before you sent it in for service

 

Read this thread and lookup RidgeRacer

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206857

 

Does anybody have a screen shot of the maps they got from the ECU?

 

These new generations of e.c.u./c.d.i. can be "flashed" without disassembling them!
Folks reprogram/flash then via a tune-boy or similar device.
I'm no techie but this is what i have heard/seen done. i don't know if the flashing is hit or miss or if custom maps are available though.

 

I thought I would revive this old thread rather than start a new one.
I'm hoping someone else wants to join in and help me.
Ive got a gsxr750 with the (old) 16-bit ecu and I want to have a go at flashing it. I've spent countless hours searching the web trying to find some info on how to do it. I almost gave up because all the hayabusa owners just upgrade to 32bit with a simple upgrade of ecu, swap the polarity of the crank angle sensor wires and change the flywheel then away you go.

(NOW PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG)

Its easy for them because the map files and definitions are readily available for them, just like 05-06 gsxr1000, but it seems no one has downloaded the maps or written def files to use in romraider for the 750 yet. (same goes for 600 or 1000 - 16bit ecus of course)
I am not interested in upgrading to 32-bit (even though I asked the question in another topic) its too much messing around.

So here is what I've found.
Most people give up on the flashing of 16bit ecus because the interface adapter is expensive and so is the software to do it.
Earlier was a link to a free schematic on making a BDM interface but it had issues. It was also to suit a 10-pin BDM port which is what is used on suzuki cars & saabs - possibly other ecu's as well.
The GSXR 68HC916 Denso 16-bit ecu has an 8 pin BDM socket so this schematic is ready to go. People have been using it to program ZX12's and TLR's and early hayabusas with success so we know it works. There is no need to spend big $$$ anymore.
http://cmp.felk.cvut.cz/~pisa/m683xx/fig/bdm_pd.pdf
Looks fairly straightforward to build.
This is what it should look like when done. (this one has the 10pin plug on the end but its just to give you an idea). Ive searched high and low and I can't find where you can buy these anywhere. There used to be a guy on the german eBay website selling them but he doesnt anymore.

I have found on the ecu hacking forum another user has been kind enough to write software that works.

This was copied from a ZX12 forum:

Here is the latest revision :

http://rapidshare.com/files/396461575/BDM_ECU_Programmer.rar

There are many bug fixes and it supports all the ECUs that you see at the drop down menu of the app. I am working on adding support for more ECUs.

The procedure is really simple and you need to buy a cheap $15 bdm cable from ebay.

Power up the ECU and then run the program.
Select your ECU Type and press "Connect".
Then select the section that you want to read and press "Read ECU". It is really good to read all the sections and keep the files to a safe place and send me a copy to my email address.
If you want to erase and reflash the ECU you need to apply +12v to VFP pin.
First select the section that you want to erase/reflash and press the corresponding button.
First you need to erase the section and then you can reflash it.

So this software should work but it doesnt yet support gsxr ecu's. I've emailed the guy that wrote the program to see what kind of support he can give us.

This is a file I found for how to neatly access the BDM port on the ecu. It is for zx12's but the ecu's are very similar. This will probably turn most people off but we don't have a choice if we want to flash them.
http://www.bikeland.info/pdf/ecu/ECU_Notch.pdf

Now the scariest part of all is we will need to write a definition file to suit. Hopefully someone can help with this because I wouldnt have a clue where to start!
I think that the 16-bit hayabusa definition file will be very, very similar as I have compared the pinout on the ecu's between the busa and the 750 and they are almost identical except busa uses pin 8 for the airbox flap motor and the 750 is empty at that pin.
The 750 uses pins 38,39,40, 45 for the secondary throttle system so our map is going to have extra maps in it. I guess this would be the same for the 600 as well. The 1000 ecu would almost be the same as the 750 except it would be using extra maps for the SET valve.
Im not sure if its easier to write a def file from scratch or just modify the hayabusa one.

If anyone wants to get an idea of what we can do here, download the romraider software and then download the 16-bit hayabusa files from here:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=99460&topicID=13463963&p=3

Another thing of interest that I have found is that we have 2 maps in our ecu's and we only need to ground pin 15 to select map B.
I'm not sure what is different in map B but I would be very interested to know.
Ive read with the TLR that it removes the soft (injector) rev limit and allows an extra 500rpm.

I have also read that the guy (Psyche) that wrote the free software has figured out a way to program the 16-bit ecu's without cutting them open and he is busy writing new software so we can program using the main harness.
Ive emailed him to find out where he is up to, it might be worth holding off, we could have it as easy as the 32-bit guys very soon!!!!

My ecu is 32920-35F40, thats what I'll be doing first. I'm not sure exactly what model it is but im pretty sure its an 01 australian 750 but I'm not sure because its not original on my bike.
If anyone wants to donate an old 600/750/1000 ecu to the cause, please PM me so we can work something out.

 

Thanks for posting luke, keep us posted on your progress.:cheers