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Extreme Overheating

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JSMITH04

· Rides a bike bent like a banana
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So long story short.... My bike is overheating to 280+ degree and the F1 code started flashing as well. I was driving it home from work one day "hadn't even gotten on it yet" and it just started overheating very badly. No water in oil. I had plenty of coolant. Nothing had been done to the bike "like coolant change or anything with the coolant system whatsoever". Nursed it home and then drove it a few days later around the neighborhood and started doing the same thing again. Took out the thermostat and it was stuck wide open. Took the water pump out but I really don't know what I am looking for with whether or not it is good. Need advice from here before I start throwing money blindly at this issue. Please help!!! :frown2: I wana ride again.

thx
 
#2 ·
Replace the thermostat and possibly radiator cap (just to be on the safe side), flush out all the old coolant (if its due, usually every 2 years it should be flushed), then follow the instructions to properly bleed the system of all air, top it off and then see if the problem is still happening.
 
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#3 ·
Look into the water pump, you should be able to see the impeller. Turn the shaft. Does the impeller turn? If so, the water pump is probably good.

The temps you reached are very concerning. Engine damage happens above 240, so you might have some major issues now. If the thermostat is stuck open, that really shouldn't cause an overheating issue. Open thermostat with a good water pump but still overheating means one of two things to me:

1) The radiator or some other part of the system is all clogged up and there's no flow.
2) The drive shaft for the water pump is broken and failing to turn the pump. This shaft comes off the oil pump drive gear.
 
#4 ·
Look into the water pump, you should be able to see the impeller. Turn the shaft. Does the impeller turn? If so, the water pump is probably good.

The temps you reached are very concerning. Engine damage happens above 240, so you might have some major issues now. If the thermostat is stuck open, that really shouldn't cause an overheating issue. Open thermostat with a good water pump but still overheating means one of two things to me:

1) The radiator or some other part of the system is all clogged up and there's no flow.
2) The drive shaft for the water pump is broken and failing to turn the pump. This shaft comes off the oil pump drive gear.

You can kinda see this in the diagrams. The shaft coming off the oil pump engages the water pump:
Oil Pump
Water Pump
 
#5 ·
280? Your engine may be severely damaged, now.
 
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Discussion starter · #6 ·
TheGeek said:
Look into the water pump, you should be able to see the impeller. Turn the shaft. Does the impeller turn? If so, the water pump is probably good.

The temps you reached are very concerning. Engine damage happens above 240, so you might have some major issues now. If the thermostat is stuck open, that really shouldn't cause an overheating issue. Open thermostat with a good water pump but still overheating means one of two things to me:

1) The radiator or some other part of the system is all clogged up and there's no flow.
2) The drive shaft for the water pump is broken and failing to turn the pump. This shaft comes off the oil pump drive gear.

You can kinda see this in the diagrams. The shaft coming off the oil pump engages the water pump:
Oil Pump
Water Pump
Click to expand...
So I have removed the water pump from the block and it appears to turn just fine. I'm not really sure where the oil pump drive gear is. Is that the shaft that you lock the water pump into when reinstalling the water pump?
 
#8 ·
JSMITH04 said:
I was driving it home from work one day "hadn't even gotten on it yet" and it just started overheating very badly.
Click to expand...
What exactly does that mean? What is "badly" and how soon is "hadn't even gotten on it yet"? How quickly did the temperature climb? If you're seeing it shoot up, it might just be the ECT sensor that's failed.
 
#9 ·
Well I did notice the 280 °F figure, but the wording isn't explicit on whether it applies to what I quoted. What I was going to get at, is that if it did apply and if "hadn't even gotten on it yet" meant anything less than several minutes, then there's probably something wrong with the ECT, or water doesn't circulate at all, because the only way for coolant to heat up that quickly, is if it's heating up locally around the sensor only (which is near the head).

If coolant is circulating, even with the thermostat completely shut (say because the engine is still cold), so that all flow bypasses the radiator, it takes about 5-6 sec on my K4 to raise the coolant temperature by a degree. That would imply more than 8 minutes to get to 280 °F, depending on initial temperature, unless the OP kept redlining the engine from the moment he got on.
 
#10 ·
For me it looks like bad head gasket, of course, if thermostat, coolant pump and all hoses are ok. Hot fumes heat up the coolant. It can be very, very, very, small overblow, but enought heat up coolant.
 
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#11 ·
It goes without saying but you mentioned it threw an FI (btw its FI not F1) light. Did you attempt to pull the code and see if that gives any more direction here?
 
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Discussion starter · #12 ·
dpapavas said:
Well I did notice the 280 °F figure, but the wording isn't explicit on whether it applies to what I quoted. What I was going to get at, is that if it did apply and if "hadn't even gotten on it yet" meant anything less than several minutes, then there's probably something wrong with the ECT, or water doesn't circulate at all, because the only way for coolant to heat up that quickly, is if it's heating up locally around the sensor only (which is near the head).

If coolant is circulating, even with the thermostat completely shut (say because the engine is still cold), so that all flow bypasses the radiator, it takes about 5-6 sec on my K4 to raise the coolant temperature by a degree. That would imply more than 8 minutes to get to 280 °F, depending on initial temperature, unless the OP kept redlining the engine from the moment he got on.
Click to expand...
I would say 5-10 minutes of driving. That's when the red light popped up which got my attention.
 
#14 ·
JSMITH04 said:
I have not read the code. I don't have a code reader :/
Click to expand...
You don't need a "code reader". When the bike throws an FI on the dash, get back home (or wherever is convenient), remove the seat, find the white diagnostic connector under it and stick a paper click or some other type of metal wire into the 2 right most terminals to short them and that effectively puts it into dealer mode and will start flashing the error codes on the dash, it will read C-something or other.

Image



FYI, -C00 indicates that there is no error codes in memory, so don't shut the bike off before you put it into dealer mode as that can erase the codes it has.

Image
 
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Discussion starter · #15 ·
SPL170db said:
You don't need a "code reader". When the bike throws an FI on the dash, get back home (or wherever is convenient), remove the seat, find the white diagnostic connector under it and stick a paper click or some other type of metal wire into the 2 right most terminals to short them and that effectively puts it into dealer mode and will start flashing the error codes on the dash, it will read C-something or other.

Image



FYI, -C00 indicates that there is no error codes in memory, so don't shut the bike off before you put it into dealer mode as that can erase the codes it has.

Image
Click to expand...
Well the bike isn't driveable or startable atm... I took the water-pump and thermo out so I will need to put more coolant and oil in it before I check any codes again unless there is a chance the codes are still on there from the last time they came on.

Also I haven't gotten a response on the "oil pump shaft" from an earlier post. Is there something to that? Is that the shaft that connects to the water pump? I need advice on my next move given my circumstances.
:frown2:
 
#16 ·
Codes aren't stored. That thermostat does not look normal, but stuck open is better than stuck closed. Yes, the oil pump shaft is what you're looking for when you reinstall the water pump.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
TheGeek said:
Codes aren't stored. That thermostat does not look normal, but stuck open is better than stuck closed. Yes, the oil pump shaft is what you're looking for when you reinstall the water pump.
Click to expand...
Here is a couple pictures of the inside of the motor where the water pump enters. I remember there being some sort of male end that the female end from the water pump connects to inside the block. I no longer see that end. It almost looks like the shaft might have broken off. Please check out the pictures and let me know what you think. I tried to reach around inside the motor to feel for a broken shaft but didn't have any luck.
 

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#18 ·
There's your problem. You have no output shaft on the oil pump shaft, so the water pump isn't spinning.
 
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#19 ·
^^^ yup. The good news is that all you have to tear down is the clutch to get the oil pump out and replace it. A new pump is only $130 at the link I posted above. So a new clutch cover gasket, and a couple cheap clutch tools and you can knock that one out in an afternoon.

The bad news, your temp got high enough that even if you replace the pump, your engine might still have massive damage.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
TheGeek said:
^^^ yup. The good news is that all you have to tear down is the clutch to get the oil pump out and replace it. A new pump is only $130 at the link I posted above. So a new clutch cover gasket, and a couple cheap clutch tools and you can knock that one out in an afternoon.

The bad news, your temp got high enough that even if you replace the pump, your engine might still have massive damage.
Click to expand...
Ok so Im looking at a new oil pump and clutch gasket. I'm going to need a repair manual too to help me with this process. Do you advise getting one off this MRCycle website? Also on a side note, my dad just mentioned that I should replace the clutch while I'm at it if I am already taking it out. The bike has 24k miles and I doubt it has had a clutch replacement. Would you advise doing this or not? I am decent with mechanics but I am no mechanic.
 
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