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#7,601 ·
yeah, it is BASICALLY compressed air under a diaphragm, that when the cam pushes the valve open, the air is compressed even more, and is used to shut the valve back, instead of a spring. A spring can only move so fast, and causes substantial mechanical loss in order to find the right spring rate to keep the valve shut fast enough at high RPM, yet not be too stiff at low RPM (thus dual springs on some bikes) and then add metal fatigue to the spring and it is highly limiting
 
#7,603 ·
NOS-Nelson said:
Yamaha and Honda both use it. Suzuki doesn't have it yet which is why I believe they can't fully compete.
Click to expand...
ONly nicky is using it last I heard. Danis bike, as well as the other non factory bikes are still standard valve systems.
 
#7,606 ·
NOS-Nelson said:
Yes. It doesn't use a conventional camshaft type valvetrain.
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My understanding is the cam shaft is the same on a pneumatic (may not be that way on GP bikes though, not sure) jsut an air chamber replaces the spring :dunno.

I do know there has been electronic valve systems made (where a solenoid is fired to open and close the valve) but not sure it has ever been used reliably :dunno
 
#7,607 ·
Pneumatic valve springs are also found in several Moto GP motorcycle engines, debuting in 2002 with the Aprilia RS3 Cube. In 2005, Team Roberts was the first to use pneumatic valves full time in their uncompetitive KTM powered bike. Today, almost all of the MotoGP teams use pneumatic valve technology on their bikes, including Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki. Honda only has one bike out of four that use pneumatic valves. Ducati uses a desmodromic design

It is wiki...:dunno
 
#7,608 ·
NOS-Nelson said:
I thought Dani had it before Nicky.:dunno
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He may have, but he didnt like the power output or something like that. Nicky had to raise HELL to allow him to ride it, and strike a deal with the team that if he placed a certain way for a couple weeks they would let him use it. They have two different styles of riding, and the pneumatic motor suited micky better, but they didnt want to try to develop two motors at the same time
 
#7,609 ·
Moto_Joe said:
My understanding is the cam shaft is the same on a pneumatic (may not be that way on GP bikes though, not sure) jsut an air chamber replaces the spring :dunno.

I do know there has been electronic valve systems made (where a solenoid is fired to open and close the valve) but not sure it has ever been used reliably :dunno
Click to expand...
They could probably run it off the coil packs somehow...I dunno, but when that happens

No more cam changes, just a reflash.

That is so cool
 
#7,610 ·
Moto_Joe said:
My understanding is the cam shaft is the same on a pneumatic (may not be that way on GP bikes though, not sure) jsut an air chamber replaces the spring :dunno.

I do know there has been electronic valve systems made (where a solenoid is fired to open and close the valve) but not sure it has ever been used reliably :dunno
Click to expand...
I don't know exactly how it works but by removing the valve springs it no longer conventional.:dunno
 
#7,611 ·
your wording "conventional CAMSHAFT" is what made me think you were saying it didnt have a camshaft in it anymore :cheers.

It is basically the same thing as a normal valve system, except the springs are replaced by air chambers.

The electronic systems have no camshaft though, but i dont know if they have ever really been used yet to any real degree
 
#7,613 ·
Moto_Joe said:
your wording "conventional CAMSHAFT" is what made me think you were saying it didnt have a camshaft in it anymore :cheers.

It is basically the same thing as a normal valve system, except the springs are replaced by air chambers.

The electronic systems have no camshaft though, but i dont know if they have ever really been used yet to any real degree
Click to expand...
That would be off the hook. A computer could control it pretty easily. Not much different than firing fuel injectors.:cheers
 
#7,614 ·
yeah, pretty crazy shit, and would open a whole new world of RPMs :lol..... but fuck as it is going might as well just replace the engine with a computer :lol :wacko
 
#7,615 ·
Moto_Joe said:
yeah, pretty crazy shit, and would open a whole new world of RPMs :lol..... but fuck as it is going might as well just replace the engine with a computer :lol :wacko
Click to expand...
Like I said earlier valvetrain is key to RPM. In order for us to turn our BBC 9k RPM our spring pressures are about 100psi greater than what most others run. Now that we have FI everything in the car is controlled by a computer. I love it though.:punk
 
#7,616 ·
Have you guys looked into dual spring systems?

engine STROKE is the key to RPM, you just have to have a valvetrain that can keep up :D. And standard springs can keep up to a pretty High RPM (depending on the size of the valve itself though)
 
#7,618 ·
Moto_Joe said:
Have you guys looked into dual spring systems?

engine STROKE is the key to RPM, you just have to have a valvetrain that can keep up :D. And standard springs can keep up to a pretty High RPM (depending on the size of the valve itself though)
Click to expand...
We run triple springs. 425psi on the seat and about 1300 open. Most guys are afraid to go over 350. Right now we run a 3.950 stroke. On nitrous we used to run a 4.250 stroke and we took that one up to 8,500 all the time.
 
#7,619 ·
A car is just different :lol.

Everything is a compromise. You cant turn the RPM up with that long of a stroke (relatively speaking) but you cant get the torque you need with a shorter stroke :hammer

There is no free horsepower :dissapointed
 
#7,620 ·
Moto_Joe said:
A car is just different :lol.

Everything is a compromise. You cant turn the RPM up with that long of a stroke (relatively speaking) but you cant get the torque you need with a shorter stroke :hammer

There is no free horsepower :dissapointed
Click to expand...
We have a Procharger now so we don't need low end torque.:punk HP is expensive.:lol Now if our BBC was a DOHC we could have a bit of both.:punk
 
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