It seems a lot safer to group the riders together according to their skill/experience/speed. I've never done a track day before, but planning on next spring once the track bike is done. I wouldn't want to be out there with the fast guys and be in the way....

 

VERY bad idea!!! The closing speed of an advanced rider is so much faster than the avg novice rider. It becomes an extreme safety problem. some novice riders don't have the ability to be smooth and carry a line due to lack of experience there for can cause unpredictable riding. Also, its common for advanced riders to blow by a novice rider and spook them. Also, some egotistic novice riders try to keep up with advanced riders to "be cool" and crash also due to in-experience. I'm not bashing on novice riders. I was there once too but worked my way up.

 

At my track school we had open track for the last hour. Everyone on the track since there where not many people left, less then 20. damn that was scary. For my first time on the track, I had people blowing past me like I was standing still, and I was going 100mph. I would not do it with 50 people way to much room for error with advanced and novice on the track.

 

Bad idea..... you would think C group riders are easy to pass because they're so slow, but its actually the opposite. They are so unpredictable to the point that you can't late brake because they might suddenly swerve over nor can you accelerate hard for the very same reason.

And you can't pass midcorner because you can only do it on the outside and most of them drift out all of a sudden. If they have to cut down the groups for whatever reason, they should have at least 2. Group the advanced and intermediate in one group, and novice in their own group.

 

Bad idea.....

And you can't pass midcorner because you can only do it on the outside and most of them drift out all of a sudden.

Completely agree. I can recall yelling inside my helmet being pissed off at someone in front of me who is completely on the outside part of the track and not being able to pass when I was in C group.

When I first rode in B group I realized that there's a spectrum of rider abilities because I was still passing and getting passed but most all riders had predictable lines.

 

One word.......



CLUSTERFUCK!!!!!:hammer:hammer:hammer

 

STT was planning to do a similar event with about 30 riders. It was gonna be a evening event from 3pm-6pm max time trackday with good B to A riders. you go on and off whenever you want. It didnt work out though bc not enough people signed up since it was during the week.
What will said about C group riders is so true. But also B group can be dangerous too bc there are guys fast enough to be in A group and there are guys/gals so slow that they dont even belong there. When you mix all that together... you get the idea.

 

Years ago I did a track day where is was called open session meaning all classes were on the track at the same time.

Like stated above it was out of control. More crashes, near misses and people doing the wrong thing that you can imagine. Would have made a great DVD.

I would not do that again but than again I am old now.

 

Interesting. I've actually had the opposite experience. I've run with Socaltrackdays.com and that is how they run their format. No sessions and only a one hour lunch break. They do request that you have previous track time before doing their track days though. They also let you know that if you are riding in an unsafe manor, in other words riding unpredictable lines and or speeds that are normally found in a rider that has never done a track day, they will pull you. And I have seen them pull a rider or two before. If they have good organization and proper track control I don't think it will be a problem. It was fun being out there with AMA guys practicing and getting to learn some of their lines...at least for the second or two that I was able to see them.

Oh, and there were far less Red flags than at a normal Fontana event for those that ride there and know how that track is.

 

I agreee with you. I've ridden with socaltrackdays.com for years now. They are technically a "test and tune" session. All riders are suppose to have some track experience. IMO, its always been the most enjoyable track time I spent and far less crashes. People that never experience open track session are always the biggest critics. Ive been to many and open format always seems to be the best.

 

I would go but not with my bike I would bring a video camera and enjoy the show

 

I wouldnt do it......not even if it was free.

You will have some people running a race pace, some people "holding their own" and then some people barely braking the speed limit.

Sure, the common rule of thumb is "ride your ride, it is the faster guy's responsibility to get around you". That works...but not when people are unpredictable, have poor throttle control and can't hold a fucking line.

This is a touchy subject with me because i was taken out at Talladega in '07 by a guy on a 1k who had alot more bike and ego than he had skill. I can see Racers being taken out by people who can't hold a line...and Novices taking themselves out by trying to keep up with the Racers.

There will be too much of a difference in closing speeds, braking points, turn in points, corner speed etc. It is a recipe for disaster.

 

That looks like a really fun track!

When you pass, give them space. By the time they see/hear/sense you, youve already passed them. It takes less then half a second so the actual time your in the "danger zone" is fuck all.

Seriously, use your brain if your going to do it. Its still safer then riding fast in the twisties and you deal with the same shit there.

But generally I agree, free for all track time means carnage for the stupid and unlucky.

What happened exactly toejam?

 

Good post, i agree. It is still safer than riding hard on the street. But i would look/wait for another opportunity.

I was coming up on a guy on a 1k down the straight after T1 at Tally. He looked back and saw me, and then nailed it. :wtf, it wasnt even a race. :rolleyes. Obviously i couldnt keep up (i was on my '05 Gix 600). So i figured "i will just wait for him to brake, then go on by him on the outside, turn in later/quicker...".

So he doesnt want me to pass him and enters the turn way too hot (for his mind, the bike could have handled it). He ends up laying his bike down as i was passing him on the outside. His bike clipped my front wheel and i went straight up in the air. I did a flip and then landed head/shoulder first. I was unconscious for over 40min, 2 broken ribs and got an NJ.

 

hahaha yeah well I'm not really worried about doing the passing, I've only done one track day so I'll probably be one of the ones that will be passed. I'm thinking I probably won't do it because I've never done the track before. Maybe if I had more track experience and spent a day or two already on the track. But right now I probably won't be able to hold a consistent line for the first half of the day, or maybe even longer, until I get used to the track and track riding in general. Thanks for the advice. :cheers

 

They started running those days here in the U.K. last year, calling them "open pit lane", I have heard very mixed feedback reports. Sounds like it can work if you have very few on track at once, but if they allow too many out it can very quickly become frustrating and dangerous.
They're not for me, but if I do some Spanish track days next year I may get no choice as I believe a lot of the days are run in this format.

 

Yikes- that would scare the hell out of me. NESBA does open track days but does it by skill class and limits the number of riders accordingly. They usually run beginners on Sat and Intermediate on Sun. Biggest complaints come from the Advanced guys who never get an open track to themselves for a full day!

I went to a couple of them and it was great. Being able to pull off, talk some things over with the CRs and get right back on the track is a lot nicer than having to wait until the next session.

 

Generally, I'd have to say its a bad idea... The ideal for me is to ride with the same folks so I know who rides well, who's just a throttle jockey and parks it in the corners, and who runs deep, and who swings wide, and who likes to go up the inside... Makes it far easier to pass and be passed, and far safer.

 

Pass.

Rookies are too unpredictable and may feel nervous being around more skilled riders causing a higher chance of misjudgement.

 

Aside from being unpredictable the n00bs also have a problem with riding with tunnel vision. When you're riding with B or A and you get behind a guy or next to him they would usually let off a tad bit or at least be aware that you are THERE.

But when you're riding with the C groupers you can have a 200 decibel exhaust blaring 1 foot away from them and they would be totally oblivious that you are there. When I bumped down to B group on a trackday it was a breeze passing people.

But on a trackday (new track I've never been on) I signed up for C group and I was actually have a really hard time passing people. Mainly because of the fact that they are not aware of anything else. Those riders are the most dangerous.