Yes, i am a new rider. call me a squid if youd like, i just purchased a used k8 gsxr 600 and feel pretty comfortable on it. put about 200 miles already. anyhow im comfortable with the dmv motorcycle test as ive taken the msf course and have been practicing the test everyday (still cant get the figure 8 down....) but to get back on topic i was looking for tips any of you experienced riders can give me on leaning the bike and cornering. i find myself looking through the turns, pushing handle bars, and "attempting" to lean my body. for some reason i just cant get comfortable with it and get nervous when i feel my bike start to lean more as if im going to lowside it. anyone have any tips on how to get over this or proper technique? thanks in advance.
e92justin
You say you don't have the figure 8s down? Get those down first before you take on cornering on a public road.
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You don't like it when it leans because it feels like its falling because you don't have the bike planted going into the corner if this it your 1st bike it's not going to get any better until you learn throttle control and how to set the bike up for a corner that's why everyone suggests new riders start on a bike that is low powered and less aggressive to turn. The hardest part of riding is getting over your Survival reactions if your riding a bike that everything happens slower on those SRs are not as much of a problem so you can build up your skill level and confidence but if your riding with SRs going off all the time you can't learn and improve.
Read the book or watch the Movie Twist of the wrist 2 as stated in the post above that will help you to under stand what your SRs are and how to get over them but its going to be much harder and take longer on an R bike.
Good Luck
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Read the book or watch the Movie Twist of the wrist 2 as stated in the post above that will help you to under stand what your SRs are and how to get over them but its going to be much harder and take longer on an R bike.
Good Luck
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AnthhK7:
Dude.
Consider writing in actual, you know, like, sentences. With, like, punctuation and stuff. Try it. We're beggin' ya.
To the OP: Leaning your body is not what makes the bike turn. Countersteering is.
You feel like you're going to fall probably because you're not on the throttle through the turn. Remember in MSF how they told you to accelerate through the turn?
Rule 1: Once the throttle is cracked open, it is rolled on smoothly and continuously through the turn.
That does NOT mean you're going from full throttle to wide open. It means that you do not cut the throttle. On a supersport it means just gentle, SLIGHT pressure to keep the bike accelerating JUST A BIT. As in if you whack the throttle open you're going to wind up in the trees. Get it?
How to corner: Note that "lean your body" is not part of this:
Get your speed down before you tip in. Look where you want to go.
LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.
Did I mention that you should look where you want to go? You go where you look. Look down, go down. Look at the spot on the pavement where you want the bike to wind up, and you'll go there. Really, no kidding.
Countersteer to tip the bike in.
Crack the throttle open and roll it on through the turn.
Really, that's it.
Don't focus so much on leaning. Focus on cornering. That's not the same thing.
Lean is a byproduct of cornering, not the goal. The goal is to make it through the corner. The lean will happen by itself.
Ask yourself what your actual objective is. Is it to look cool, cranked way over with a knee dragging? Or is it to improve your riding and be smooth and quick?
If the former: What are you, stupid? Is this a fashion show or something? And why the hell would you want to do something like that on the street? Take it to the track.
If the latter: Good man! That's the right attitude. Now… why do you care about leaning? Shouldn't you care about cornering?
Dude.
Consider writing in actual, you know, like, sentences. With, like, punctuation and stuff. Try it. We're beggin' ya.
To the OP: Leaning your body is not what makes the bike turn. Countersteering is.
You feel like you're going to fall probably because you're not on the throttle through the turn. Remember in MSF how they told you to accelerate through the turn?
Rule 1: Once the throttle is cracked open, it is rolled on smoothly and continuously through the turn.
That does NOT mean you're going from full throttle to wide open. It means that you do not cut the throttle. On a supersport it means just gentle, SLIGHT pressure to keep the bike accelerating JUST A BIT. As in if you whack the throttle open you're going to wind up in the trees. Get it?
How to corner: Note that "lean your body" is not part of this:
Get your speed down before you tip in. Look where you want to go.
LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.
Did I mention that you should look where you want to go? You go where you look. Look down, go down. Look at the spot on the pavement where you want the bike to wind up, and you'll go there. Really, no kidding.
Countersteer to tip the bike in.
Crack the throttle open and roll it on through the turn.
Really, that's it.
Don't focus so much on leaning. Focus on cornering. That's not the same thing.
Lean is a byproduct of cornering, not the goal. The goal is to make it through the corner. The lean will happen by itself.
Ask yourself what your actual objective is. Is it to look cool, cranked way over with a knee dragging? Or is it to improve your riding and be smooth and quick?
If the former: What are you, stupid? Is this a fashion show or something? And why the hell would you want to do something like that on the street? Take it to the track.
If the latter: Good man! That's the right attitude. Now… why do you care about leaning? Shouldn't you care about cornering?
You've got 200 miles under your belt on a k8 600 super sport. I don't care how comfortable you FEEL. You should still be putting around neighborhoods, not trying to lean through some twisties.. Best of luck to you.
Practice practice practice. Sport bikes are designed to scrape peg, but you need lots of practice before knowing how to make your bike do this safely. The tips the guy above gave you are good. Keep the rubber side down.
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This is exactly why smaller bikes are so useful (and so much fun).
You've got near-zero experience and a bike that can f*ck you up if you don't know how to control it.
On a supersport it's a lot easier to exceed limits through lack of knowledge. On a smaller bike you can push it a lot harder and not get to the limit, which means such a bike can in many cases be way more fun to ride.
The old saying is that "it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow." It's true. I loved my old Ninja 250. I wrung its little Japanese neck routinely and it was a hoot. Someday I'll return to a bike like that.
However, you've already got the gixxer, so....
On a muscle car taking a corner in first gear is a no-no? Pish. The car cannot break loose all by itself. You are the one who makes it happen, by giving it too much gas for the available traction. Learn how NOT to floor it and the vehicle will not break loose.
Same thing with a bike. You've got the finest, most sensitive traction control device in the universe available to you. You were born with it. It's located in your right wrist. The software that controls it is in your brain.
Use it.
The answer is to corner using proper technique in the first place, not use poor technique to avoid getting the vehicle out of shape.
When the bike is under mild acceleration it is more stable. The bike was designed to be under acceleration through the corner.
Ever wonder why the rear tire is wider than the front? According to Keith Code, that's why. You're supposed to load the rear by accelerating gently... like 0.1 G. The desired weight distribution is IIRC 60% rear 40% front or thereabouts... I don't have my copy of TOTW 2 handy so somebody might correct me on this. The wider rear tire gives a larger contact patch so traction is more or less equal when the weight is distributed that way.
You've got near-zero experience and a bike that can f*ck you up if you don't know how to control it.
On a supersport it's a lot easier to exceed limits through lack of knowledge. On a smaller bike you can push it a lot harder and not get to the limit, which means such a bike can in many cases be way more fun to ride.
The old saying is that "it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow." It's true. I loved my old Ninja 250. I wrung its little Japanese neck routinely and it was a hoot. Someday I'll return to a bike like that.
However, you've already got the gixxer, so....
On a muscle car taking a corner in first gear is a no-no? Pish. The car cannot break loose all by itself. You are the one who makes it happen, by giving it too much gas for the available traction. Learn how NOT to floor it and the vehicle will not break loose.
Same thing with a bike. You've got the finest, most sensitive traction control device in the universe available to you. You were born with it. It's located in your right wrist. The software that controls it is in your brain.
Use it.
The answer is to corner using proper technique in the first place, not use poor technique to avoid getting the vehicle out of shape.
When the bike is under mild acceleration it is more stable. The bike was designed to be under acceleration through the corner.
Ever wonder why the rear tire is wider than the front? According to Keith Code, that's why. You're supposed to load the rear by accelerating gently... like 0.1 G. The desired weight distribution is IIRC 60% rear 40% front or thereabouts... I don't have my copy of TOTW 2 handy so somebody might correct me on this. The wider rear tire gives a larger contact patch so traction is more or less equal when the weight is distributed that way.
I would stay away from first gear in the corners until you get more experience under your belt. There's too much acceleration and engine braking in first. I'd also get some frame sliders (and gear obviously) if I were you because there's a good chance you're going to bust your ass learning how to corner. It's a very difficult thing to master. I've been riding for 10+ years and am still not all that confident in my cornering abilities.
The bike you have is the main problem.
It super responsive throttle, steering and brakes give you NO grace for mistakes no learning curve.
So you would be better off buying a cheap 250 which when you sell you will most likely get what you paid for it.
But even if you lost on it the experience skill and FUN you got from it will be well worth it.
You can't learn when your scared and if the bike is twitching and nose diving your going to be scared this is going to make you tight on the bars which is going to make it harder to steer make you run wide on every corner.
A 250 will help you with all the above.
It will be slower in every way= more time for you to react
select the right gear and speed for the corner,
more time to look into the corner and see where you want to go.
And when your back on the throttle it won't jerk the bike as bad and you won't chop the throttle as much (that's the No1 SR) copping the throttle your shouldn't chop it off you should roll off the throttle.
Rolling off will keep the bike from diving forward remember you want to be smooth and stable.
The same things applies with braking.
In a car you can you can get away with being a little ruff on them.
On a bike you need to squeeze the leaver feel the bite then brake harder then ease off the brakes.
The goal is not to have the bike dive on the front, lock up or suddenly release the brake and the bike bounces back up all the above will upset the bike before going into a corner.
If the bike is not settled before the corner giving it throttle is the only thing that is going to help settle it but your SRs will be making you chop the throttle or even brake when all the bike needs is some smooth throttle.
All the above comes so much easier on a 250.
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It super responsive throttle, steering and brakes give you NO grace for mistakes no learning curve.
So you would be better off buying a cheap 250 which when you sell you will most likely get what you paid for it.
But even if you lost on it the experience skill and FUN you got from it will be well worth it.
You can't learn when your scared and if the bike is twitching and nose diving your going to be scared this is going to make you tight on the bars which is going to make it harder to steer make you run wide on every corner.
A 250 will help you with all the above.
It will be slower in every way= more time for you to react
select the right gear and speed for the corner,
more time to look into the corner and see where you want to go.
And when your back on the throttle it won't jerk the bike as bad and you won't chop the throttle as much (that's the No1 SR) copping the throttle your shouldn't chop it off you should roll off the throttle.
Rolling off will keep the bike from diving forward remember you want to be smooth and stable.
The same things applies with braking.
In a car you can you can get away with being a little ruff on them.
On a bike you need to squeeze the leaver feel the bite then brake harder then ease off the brakes.
The goal is not to have the bike dive on the front, lock up or suddenly release the brake and the bike bounces back up all the above will upset the bike before going into a corner.
If the bike is not settled before the corner giving it throttle is the only thing that is going to help settle it but your SRs will be making you chop the throttle or even brake when all the bike needs is some smooth throttle.
All the above comes so much easier on a 250.
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yeah i seen part of the totw video and found it helpful. however by countersteering, all they mean by that is simply turning the wheel "slightly" to the opposite direction of the turn to tip the bike in, then once the turn has been initiated straighten the wheel and push/ lean into it? or am i wrong?
Maybe you should retake the course....but this time don't fall asleep...:lol
Find a big ass parking lot and practice, practice, practice and when you're done practice some more....
Find a big ass parking lot and practice, practice, practice and when you're done practice some more....
honestly my instructors never went over countersteering. all they stressed was slow, look, push, lean, throttle. and its been working so far lol. i can maneuver fine doing 90 degree turns, weaving, etc. i think i might already be doing it without knowing it... maybe im just overthinking it... i just wish i could lean lower 
Don't worry about leaning lower. Higher lean angles will come with more speed; lean is a byproduct, not the goal. Don't do anything you're not comfortable with. Higher speeds and lean angles will come with time and practice. If you want to ride hard, take it to the track where everyone is going the same direction and there's nothing to run into. Welcome to GDC and good luck, crushing my soap box now.
Just be careful when you start actually trying to counter steer, as the bike will turn faster when you counter steer on purpose as a-posed to counter steering by just trying to get around corner which is what you have been doing.
When you counter steer buy choice you should already be looking into your turn that's what will tell you how fast and how much steering you need.
The lean angle will come all on its own as you get faster in the corners you will find the bike needs to lean further to stay on your line.
Just don't forget throttle control as you counter steer you should be just cracking the throttle and I means JUST!!!
So you don't upset the bike you keep the bike smooth and it will feel stable throughout the corner.
Also keep in mind as you go around a corner you loose speed which is why you need to slowing keep accelerating around the corner.
That doesn't mean giving it a hand full just enough to maintain your speed.
Then when your on the exit and your bring the bike upright you can apply more throttle but even then don't just rip it on, roll it on slowly and evenly roll off it the same going into a corner. It's all about keeping the bike smooth if the bike is smooth your SRs will not take over your riding.
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When you counter steer buy choice you should already be looking into your turn that's what will tell you how fast and how much steering you need.
The lean angle will come all on its own as you get faster in the corners you will find the bike needs to lean further to stay on your line.
Just don't forget throttle control as you counter steer you should be just cracking the throttle and I means JUST!!!
So you don't upset the bike you keep the bike smooth and it will feel stable throughout the corner.
Also keep in mind as you go around a corner you loose speed which is why you need to slowing keep accelerating around the corner.
That doesn't mean giving it a hand full just enough to maintain your speed.
Then when your on the exit and your bring the bike upright you can apply more throttle but even then don't just rip it on, roll it on slowly and evenly roll off it the same going into a corner. It's all about keeping the bike smooth if the bike is smooth your SRs will not take over your riding.
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Let's start by getting those figure 8's down which will be a lesson in throttle, brake, and clutch control in itself. Too many guys want to learn to go fast without first learning to go slow.
DON'T TAKE IT TO THE TRACK.
READ: YET.
The last guy I'd want out on the track is the guy who can't even handle his bike at parking lot speed.
It goes like this. First you crawl, then you walk, then you run. Master the basics FIRST before trying to advance your riding ability.
DON'T TAKE IT TO THE TRACK.
READ: YET.
The last guy I'd want out on the track is the guy who can't even handle his bike at parking lot speed.
It goes like this. First you crawl, then you walk, then you run. Master the basics FIRST before trying to advance your riding ability.
:stupid
We always say "go to the track and get some proper instruction". But that is assuming you have the basics down pat. If you can't confidently pilot your motorcycle to the store and back, or around a parking lot, you have no business on the track. It isn't child's play out there.
We always say "go to the track and get some proper instruction". But that is assuming you have the basics down pat. If you can't confidently pilot your motorcycle to the store and back, or around a parking lot, you have no business on the track. It isn't child's play out there.
Yeah, that happens sometimes.
Joe and I have been known to get involved in such shenanigans. :lol But the thing is, we have ridden and raced together for over 5 years. At any given time, we know what the other one is going to do and most importantly, know the other one will hold his line (and can handle the stuffing without running off or some shit).
I will do shit like that when I am at track days "battling" with friends/racing buddies that I know and am comfortable with. But I wont do it to the normal "track day guy". Stuffing people like that happens on every single corner while racing. The vast majority of passes are stuffs on corner entry. We are in just as much control passing somebody like that, as we are passing somebody on the outside of a corner or elsewhere. Not only that, but we are used to being passed like that.
So doing such passes at track days isn't a big deal. But again, I wont pass non-racers like that.
Joe and I have been known to get involved in such shenanigans. :lol But the thing is, we have ridden and raced together for over 5 years. At any given time, we know what the other one is going to do and most importantly, know the other one will hold his line (and can handle the stuffing without running off or some shit).
I will do shit like that when I am at track days "battling" with friends/racing buddies that I know and am comfortable with. But I wont do it to the normal "track day guy". Stuffing people like that happens on every single corner while racing. The vast majority of passes are stuffs on corner entry. We are in just as much control passing somebody like that, as we are passing somebody on the outside of a corner or elsewhere. Not only that, but we are used to being passed like that.
So doing such passes at track days isn't a big deal. But again, I wont pass non-racers like that.
Justin, it looks like you've got it re countersteering but just to be clear about the word since that was what you were tripping over…..
When you push on the grip in the direction you want the bike to go, you're actually STEERING the front wheel to the left a bit. COUNTER to the direction of the turn.
I think MSF tries to stay away from the term because the whole "counter" idea is inherently confusing. Steer to the left to turn to the right? Huh?
But that's how it works.
When you push on the grip in the direction you want the bike to go, you're actually STEERING the front wheel to the left a bit. COUNTER to the direction of the turn.
I think MSF tries to stay away from the term because the whole "counter" idea is inherently confusing. Steer to the left to turn to the right? Huh?
But that's how it works.
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