[2017Dave]

It may be a coil. I had a similar incident with a yamaha right after washing it and getting water into the area where the spark plug goes in. The bike ran like yours. I identified the bad coil by using a temp gun at the headers. One exhaust pipe was running much cooler than the others. So the bike was mostly running on 3 cylinders. It is easy to check.

 

[lilone21804]

It sounds like it's not firing on all four, both when idling and when under 4k rpm, but then again, if it didn't, I wouldn't expect it to idle at the proper speed, at least not if the K6/7 doesn't have an ISC valve, which I think is the case. Given that it suddenly starter running properly at idle, after you reconnected the ISC, I suppose it's not the injectors, at least not a case of the primaries being gummed up, as they wouldn't be likely to clear up for a few minutes only. This leaves some sort of control failure as the most likely cause, only you're not getting any codes thrown and it's not the IAP.

Have you checked your charging system, or at least checked your voltage at idle and at 5000rpm? Perhaps it's struggling to keep up at lower speeds due to your recent incident. Low system voltage, can cause all sorts of weirdness.

So I’m not the most advance when it comes to the electrical system, but I’m definitely willing to check what I need to. To check the voltage, I assume I could use a voltage meter and take the readings right at the battery? What voltage should I expect to see?

 

[lilone21804]

It may be a coil. I had a similar incident with a yamaha right after washing it and getting water into the area where the spark plug goes in. The bike ran like yours. I identified the bad coil by using a temp gun at the headers. One exhaust pipe was running much cooler than the others. So the bike was mostly running on 3 cylinders. It is easy to check.

If I don’t have access to a heat gun, is there another alternative to check if it’s a coil? I’m going to pick up a voltage meter today.

 

[2017Dave]

You should borrow a temp gun from somebody, or try placing a drop of water and see how it evaporates. But if one cylinder is different you would verify this with a temp gun anyway. Also you could pull the coils and test them individually. I don't know how to do it but you could probably find out in your manual or do a search.

 

[lilone21804]

You should borrow a temp gun from somebody, or try placing a drop of water and see how it evaporates. But if one cylinder is different you would verify this with a temp gun anyway. Also you could pull the coils and test them individually. I don't know how to do it but you could probably find out in your manual or do a search.

So in theory, couldn’t I just take turns unplugging each coil one by one to isolate the one that’s bad? Right now, we’re suspecting that at least one of the coils isn’t working probably, so if I remove the power to one that is working properly the bike will idle/behave worse than it is now. If I figure out the one that’s not working, and unplug it the condition of the bike will remain the same. I hope that makes sense?

 

[dpapavas]

To check the battery, all you need is a DMM (probably what you call voltage meter, but it measures more) and knowing how to use it. It doesn't have to be very expensive, just decent, but almost anything will do for most applications. See a couple of tutorials/videos on how to use it for voltage measurement and see what you get. You would normally expect >12.6V with the ignition off and the battery properly charged. At idle it should be more, but not more than 15V. At 5000rpm, it should be between 14.5-15.5V.

I'm a little confused about the rest. Assuming the coil came into the picture because of my comment that it's not running on all 4 and that "heat gun" means an IR temperature meter, presumably to be used to measure the temperature of each exhaust pipe, note the following. A faulty coil would likely throw a code (also that depends on the mode of failure, as is the case for faulty injectors) so I'm not saying it's the coil necessarily. It isn't necessarily running on less than 4 cylinders either, as engine sounds can be deceptive. In order to see if one cylinder isn't firing you can do the following: With the engine *cold*, start the bike and let it idle for a couple of seconds. About 5-10 should do it. Then shut it down and *quickly tap* each exhaust header with your fingers. Don't let them touch for more than a split second, for obvious reasons. If one is significantly colder than the others, or even entirely cold, you should notice.

Even if it is running on 3 though, the most important question is why. Whatever it is, it must be intermittent, engine speed related and probably related to that stator failure (barring a coincidence, which is always a possibility). A coil, or injector failure doesn't sound likely, as it doesn't match on two of the three counts.

 

[lopitt85]

Definately do the tests for your charging system. The manual is easy to follow on the procedures for checking the stator and the R/R. I used a $10 DMM from harbor freight and it worked perfectly to help me find my problem.

Also check your plugs and the coils. It's possible that a plug is bad. Could've happened to go bad at the same time as the stator, maybe got fouled when the bike died on you, or any other reason. I did a lot of mechanical work on cars before I started riding bikes and I've seen a fouled plug run better at higher rpm.

Also you should have run enough seafoam through it by now. Do your next check with just premium gas in the tank.

 

[lopitt85]

Same as the plug on potential of a bad coil

 

[lilone21804]

To check the battery, all you need is a DMM (probably what you call voltage meter, but it measures more) and knowing how to use it. It doesn't have to be very expensive, just decent, but almost anything will do for most applications. See a couple of tutorials/videos on how to use it for voltage measurement and see what you get. You would normally expect >12.6V with the ignition off and the battery properly charged. At idle it should be more, but not more than 15V. At 5000rpm, it should be between 14.5-15.5V.

I'm a little confused about the rest. Assuming the coil came into the picture because of my comment that it's not running on all 4 and that "heat gun" means an IR temperature meter, presumably to be used to measure the temperature of each exhaust pipe, note the following. A faulty coil would likely throw a code (also that depends on the mode of failure, as is the case for faulty injectors) so I'm not saying it's the coil necessarily. It isn't necessarily running on less than 4 cylinders either, as engine sounds can be deceptive. In order to see if one cylinder isn't firing you can do the following: With the engine *cold*, start the bike and let it idle for a couple of seconds. About 5-10 should do it. Then shut it down and *quickly tap* each exhaust header with your fingers. Don't let them touch for more than a split second, for obvious reasons. If one is significantly colder than the others, or even entirely cold, you should notice.

Even if it is running on 3 though, the most important question is why. Whatever it is, it must be intermittent, engine speed related and probably related to that stator failure (barring a coincidence, which is always a possibility). A coil, or injector failure doesn't sound likely, as it doesn't match on two of the three counts.

So I took your advice and turned the bike on for 10 secs and immediately turned it off and felt each header to see if there was a difference in temperature and I could not feel one at all. They all seemed equally hot. I guess I just have to wait until my DMM comes in tomorrow to check the charging system.

 

[lilone21804]

To check the battery, all you need is a DMM (probably what you call voltage meter, but it measures more) and knowing how to use it. It doesn't have to be very expensive, just decent, but almost anything will do for most applications. See a couple of tutorials/videos on how to use it for voltage measurement and see what you get. You would normally expect >12.6V with the ignition off and the battery properly charged. At idle it should be more, but not more than 15V. At 5000rpm, it should be between 14.5-15.5V.

I'm a little confused about the rest. Assuming the coil came into the picture because of my comment that it's not running on all 4 and that "heat gun" means an IR temperature meter, presumably to be used to measure the temperature of each exhaust pipe, note the following. A faulty coil would likely throw a code (also that depends on the mode of failure, as is the case for faulty injectors) so I'm not saying it's the coil necessarily. It isn't necessarily running on less than 4 cylinders either, as engine sounds can be deceptive. In order to see if one cylinder isn't firing you can do the following: With the engine *cold*, start the bike and let it idle for a couple of seconds. About 5-10 should do it. Then shut it down and *quickly tap* each exhaust header with your fingers. Don't let them touch for more than a split second, for obvious reasons. If one is significantly colder than the others, or even entirely cold, you should notice.

Even if it is running on 3 though, the most important question is why. Whatever it is, it must be intermittent, engine speed related and probably related to that stator failure (barring a coincidence, which is always a possibility). A coil, or injector failure doesn't sound likely, as it doesn't match on two of the three counts.

Definately do the tests for your charging system. The manual is easy to follow on the procedures for checking the stator and the R/R. I used a $10 DMM from harbor freight and it worked perfectly to help me find my problem.

Also check your plugs and the coils. It's possible that a plug is bad. Could've happened to go bad at the same time as the stator, maybe got fouled when the bike died on you, or any other reason. I did a lot of mechanical work on cars before I started riding bikes and I've seen a fouled plug run better at higher rpm.

Also you should have run enough seafoam through it by now. Do your next check with just premium gas in the tank.

I think I may have found the problem. I tested the voltage of the battery while the bike was off, on at idled, and revved at 5k rmps and all the numbers were right on point. When I went to test the stator, that’s when I discovered the connector was melted. With that said, I was able to test it, and the numbers came back as normal. This leads me to think the the stator itself is not damaged, but the connector is compromised. I’ve posted a picture for more details. I was able to find replacement connectors from rick’s but wasn’t sure if it was only for the rectifier or if it would also work on the stator. I’ve posted the link for the part as well. Even if this isn’t what’s wrong, it’s still worth changing out. I’m just glad that the stator isn’t comprised. I still need to replace the spark plugs. This bike has 17k miles on it, and I’m the third owner, so I’m not really sure when the last time they were even changed.

Burnt Connector:

http://tinypic.com/r/2qce52s/9

Replacement connector:

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Hot-Shot-Wiring-Harness-Connector-Kit-11_112

 

[lopitt85]

Read my thread here https://www.gixxer.com/#/topics/824316 .

Mine was the exact same issue originally. Then I crimped on some connectors and it was fine until they corroded and caused too much resistance.

I just removed the connectors and soldered my stator directly to my rectifier which is the best electrical connection you can have there. Much better than even the factory connectors. No more problems for me.

I also made my own relocation bracket which was really easy and very beneficial. I wanted to post a how to but I can get any pictures to post. Even when I resize them they come up as a broken link. And they are saved in the right format too.

 

[dpapavas]

A note on connections: generally an electrical connection has to have sufficient surface, if it's going to have low resistance. Besides beefy lugs, this also means clean and tight mating surfaces, as both of these affect the effective contact surface for obvious reasons. Both ways of achieving a connection, i.e. electrical connectors and solder joints can be made effective, but care needs to be taken with each. A connector has to be of adequate size and proper type and care needs to be taken when crimping the lugs on, to ensure that the crimp is tight enough to compress the strands of the wire and maximize the contact surface.

Similarly, a solder joint needs to be made so that the solder has wetted both wire ends (.i.e. penetrated between the strands) and that the wire ends make contact along a sufficient surface, which is completely saturated with solder. It's easy to twist the wires loosely together and apply some solder, when they're still cold, which just forms a beefy-look jacket around them and is inadequate both mechanically and electrically. And of course, even a good solder joint has the shortcoming of making maintenance tasks harder.

So, what were the exact voltage numbers then, and how were the tests carried out?

 

[lilone21804]

Read my thread here https://www.gixxer.com/#/topics/824316 .

Mine was the exact same issue originally. Then I crimped on some connectors and it was fine until they corroded and caused too much resistance.

I just removed the connectors and soldered my stator directly to my rectifier which is the best electrical connection you can have there. Much better than even the factory connectors. No more problems for me.

I also made my own relocation bracket which was really easy and very beneficial. I wanted to post a how to but I can get any pictures to post. Even when I resize them they come up as a broken link. And they are saved in the right format too.

Lol I’m going to be 100% honest. I don’t think I’m that advance to try and solder those wires together. I’ll rather just replace the connectors. Are the ones I posted in my previous post the correct replacements? Like I mentioned in my previous post, even if this isn’t the issue itself I definitely need to replace the connector regardless.

A note on connections: generally an electrical connection has to have sufficient surface, if it's going to have low resistance. Besides beefy lugs, this also means clean and tight mating surfaces, as both of these affect the effective contact surface for obvious reasons. Both ways of achieving a connection, i.e. electrical connectors and solder joints can be made effective, but care needs to be taken with each. A connector has to be of adequate size and proper type and care needs to be taken when crimping the lugs on, to ensure that the crimp is tight enough to compress the strands of the wire and maximize the contact surface.

Similarly, a solder joint needs to be made so that the solder has wetted both wire ends (.i.e. penetrated between the strands) and that the wire ends make contact along a sufficient surface, which is completely saturated with solder. It's easy to twist the wires loosely together and apply some solder, when they're still cold, which just forms a beefy-look jacket around them and is inadequate both mechanically and electrically. And of course, even a good solder joint has the shortcoming of making maintenance tasks harder.

So, what were the exact voltage numbers then, and how were the tests carried out?

When I tested the battery with the bike off, the voltage was roughly around 12.54 V. When I turned it on at idle, it shot up to 14.6 V. When I raised the rpms to 5k, it fluctuated between 14.9 - 15.1 V. When I tested the stator resistance, I changed my settings on my DMM to omes which gave me a reading of 1. I took the positive lead of my meter and inserted it one of the legs of the connector and took the negative lead to the negative pole of the battery. The numbers didn’t change at all, which I understand to mean there is not an issue. When I tested the stator voltage output, I switched my DMM to AC and inserted the positive lead from my DMM into one leg of the stator connector and the negative lead into another leg. The reading I got at 5k rmps was around 80 V. Just wanted to point out that these test were done using the connectors coming from the stator.

 

[dpapavas]

When I tested the stator resistance, I changed my settings on my DMM to omes which gave me a reading of 1. I took the positive lead of my meter and inserted it one of the legs of the connector and took the negative lead to the negative pole of the battery. The numbers didn’t change at all, which I understand to mean there is not an issue.

For future reference, and for the benefit of other who might stumble upon this in the future, the test described above checks the insulation of the stator coils. If it's intact, the resistance between each coil and the ground should be "infinite", i.e. out of range in the largest (MΩ) range, which is the "1", you're seeing. Apart from that you'd also have to check the resistance of each coil, but since your voltages are fine, it seems that the charging system is fine and you needn't bother.

 

[lilone21804]

When I tested the stator resistance, I changed my settings on my DMM to omes which gave me a reading of 1. I took the positive lead of my meter and inserted it one of the legs of the connector and took the negative lead to the negative pole of the battery. The numbers didn’t change at all, which I understand to mean there is not an issue.

For future reference, and for the benefit of other who might stumble upon this in the future, the test described above checks the insulation of the stator coils. If it's intact, the resistance between each coil and the ground should be "infinite", i.e. out of range in the largest (MΩ) range, which is the "1", you're seeing. Apart from that you'd also have to check the resistance of each coil, but since your voltages are fine, it seems that the charging system is fine and you needn't bother.

So is it safe to say that my stator isn’t the issue, minus the connector being completely melted. Since I need to replace the connector, I’m thinking about temporarily connecting the three metal female pins directly to the harness and using electrical tape to hold them together. This would solely be for the purpose of testing to see if that fixes the issues I’m having.

 

[dpapavas]

I'd say first figure out what's causing your problem, with minimal interventions, that could complicate matters before you do so. Then fix what needs to be fixed and make sure it is fixed. If the voltage at the battery is >14V while the engine idles choppily, then I don't see how that, or the charging system might be the issue.

 

[yawnat]

Figured I'd add my two cents:

First off, the manual is your friend for troubleshooting(as others have already recommended). We tend to skip over it, but half the answers are in there.

So i had something similar to this on my k6 750. I haven't heard the video/sound clips you posted but will take a look later tonight. For me my fix was simply to replace the spark plugs. The bike was around the mileage of needing them, so i randomly started there and got lucky. Spark plugs and coils a bit of a pain to get to (not really... a pain for me due to using tiny long hex keys..and then having to torque these by feel rather than a wrench, since i cannot afford to buy tiny accurate instruments/tools and it wasn't a deal breaker if i) but its a simple thing to check and if you are checking your coils, you are practically there.

That being said, i do agree with dpapavas on not adding new problems before fixing the one at hand. good luck and keep us posted.

 

[lilone21804]

Figured I'd add my two cents:

First off, the manual is your friend for troubleshooting(as others have already recommended). We tend to skip over it, but half the answers are in there.

So i had something similar to this on my k6 750. I haven't heard the video/sound clips you posted but will take a look later tonight. For me my fix was simply to replace the spark plugs. The bike was around the mileage of needing them, so i randomly started there and got lucky. Spark plugs and coils a bit of a pain to get to (not really... a pain for me due to using tiny long hex keys..and then having to torque these by feel rather than a wrench, since i cannot afford to buy tiny accurate instruments/tools and it wasn't a deal breaker if i) but its a simple thing to check and if you are checking your coils, you are practically there.

That being said, i do agree with dpapavas on not adding new problems before fixing the one at hand. good luck and keep us posted.

So I finally got around to my bike. I changed the spark plug and it fixed everything. It’s actually running better than before. Thanks to everyone who chimed in and provided feedback. I’ve posted pictures of the old spark plugs below.

http://tinypic.com/r/2ugnbf6/9

 

[erikmathewmalone8787]

It sounds like it's not firing on all four, both when idling and when under 4k rpm, but then again, if it didn't, I wouldn't expect it to idle at the proper speed, at least not if the K6/7 doesn't have an ISC valve, which I think is the case. Given that it suddenly starter running properly at idle, after you reconnected the ISC, I suppose it's not the injectors, at least not a case of the primaries being gummed up, as they wouldn't be likely to clear up for a few minutes only. This leaves some sort of control failure as the most likely cause, only you're not getting any codes thrown and it's not the IAP. Have you checked your charging system, or at least checked your voltage at idle and at 5000rpm? Perhaps it's struggling to keep up at lower speeds due to your recent incident. Low system voltage, can cause all sorts of weirdness.

 

[erikmathewmalone8787]

It’s really all about the rpms. When I let it idle, it sounds rough. It seems the second I go past 4K rpms it instantly goes from sound like shit, to normal. It happens suddenly. I’ve been running seafoam through the gas take like crazy. Is there something I can do it clean the injectors?

Did you ever figure it out? My bikes doing the same exact thing.. you described it very well too BTW