Yes, i am a new rider. call me a squid if youd like, i just purchased a used k8 gsxr 600 and feel pretty comfortable on it. put about 200 miles already. anyhow im comfortable with the dmv motorcycle test as ive taken the msf course and have been practicing the test everyday (still cant get the figure 8 down....) but to get back on topic i was looking for tips any of you experienced riders can give me on leaning the bike and cornering. i find myself looking through the turns, pushing handle bars, and "attempting" to lean my body. for some reason i just cant get comfortable with it and get nervous when i feel my bike start to lean more as if im going to lowside it. anyone have any tips on how to get over this or proper technique? thanks in advance.
Tips on leaning and cornering
e92justin
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the initial input does not steer the bike. the bike will steer once that input is finished, meaning that if you continuously and constantly push on the bar you will tip over. the initial input puts in lean, and once the machine settles, then it turns.
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There is a difference between adding lean angle, and steering...meaning the bike actually rotating on its axis. Yes - you MUST put in input into the bars to initiate turn in. Stand on the pegs all you want, shit isn't going to happen until you give a steering input into the bars. But beyond that, at mid-corner, the wheel actually turns IN to make the bike rotate on its axis.
JD40 and I got into a long discussion about this a year or two ago. He sent me a link to this video for illustration. I know it is dirty bikes, but the principal applies to our bikes also.
http://vimeo.com/32537513
You can skip to about 0:25 or so to see it being illustrated.
The instructor in the video really overemphasizes the turning inwards of the front wheel, probably as a demo about doing just that, but not that dramatically. But notice... until he initiates it, and turns the front wheel in... the bike does NOT turn. He just adds lean angle. As soon as he turns the front in the bike ROTATES (again, like I said, there is a difference between adding lean angle and steering). That's what I mean when I talk about rotation in the middle of the corner, the bike actually changing direction.
Like Joe said though, none of this shit really matters at the end of the day. It all happens naturally without thinking about/over-analyzing it. We just like to waste time on forums discussing things. I probably shouldn't even have said anything, because I don't feel like getting into a 10-page discussion on theories.
JD40 and I got into a long discussion about this a year or two ago. He sent me a link to this video for illustration. I know it is dirty bikes, but the principal applies to our bikes also.
http://vimeo.com/32537513
You can skip to about 0:25 or so to see it being illustrated.
The instructor in the video really overemphasizes the turning inwards of the front wheel, probably as a demo about doing just that, but not that dramatically. But notice... until he initiates it, and turns the front wheel in... the bike does NOT turn. He just adds lean angle. As soon as he turns the front in the bike ROTATES (again, like I said, there is a difference between adding lean angle and steering). That's what I mean when I talk about rotation in the middle of the corner, the bike actually changing direction.
Like Joe said though, none of this shit really matters at the end of the day. It all happens naturally without thinking about/over-analyzing it. We just like to waste time on forums discussing things. I probably shouldn't even have said anything, because I don't feel like getting into a 10-page discussion on theories.
:cheers
.:cheers
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:blink... what?... :lmao :crazy
steer**
/sti(É™)r/
Verb
(of a person) Guide or control the movement .
Counter STEERING is exactly what controls the movement... ie "steers".
The force with which you counter STEER controls how fast, and how far, the chassis changes its lean angle. That change in turn decides what arc the bike takes. Once you stop counter steering... the bike stops steering. It them centers up and holds its arc that your steering input set it on.
Sorry. You are wrong.
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Therein lies the rub... seems you and macbayne are trying to say the change in arc of the bike is the "steering". Steering is the controlling of the movement of the bike by definition... hence counter steer is exactly what steers it. Once you steer it, the chassis geometry, speed of the bike, lean angle and everything else control the arc that the bike then follows
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Put a needle on the steering stem of your bike. Make a mark where it points. Turn. See where that needle points.I am obviously at mid-corner in this picture. Notice the front wheel. It is turned IN, and the bike is steering, rotating on its axis.
![Image]()
It with be damn near dead center. I've actually seen video of it done.
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Need to set some definitions I suppose to put us all on the same page.
Steering controls movement of bike
Turn is a change in direction of travel of the bike.
Lean angle is caused by steering, and controls/initiates the turn of the bike.
The basic thing we all are probably trying to say though is if someone says you need to keep counter steerjng or keep.pressure on the bars mid corner kick them in the teeth and disregard any further advice they give you.. Lol. And if your bike literally is fighting you like that take it to a.mechanic... it is broken.
Steering controls movement of bike
Turn is a change in direction of travel of the bike.
Lean angle is caused by steering, and controls/initiates the turn of the bike.
The basic thing we all are probably trying to say though is if someone says you need to keep counter steerjng or keep.pressure on the bars mid corner kick them in the teeth and disregard any further advice they give you.. Lol. And if your bike literally is fighting you like that take it to a.mechanic... it is broken.
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You ain't the boss of me. :flipoff
We counter steer to add lean angle, then at some point the wheel turns in and the bike rotates. If you watch the closeup videos of the camera down on the lower, mounted so you can see the front wheel (like they do sometimes in MotoGP and WSBK), you can see it happen.
But regardless, I do not have the energy, nor desire to debate it. There is absolutely nothing that can possible be said in this thread that will gain me any time on the track nor make my arm heal faster. And like I said, I don't feel like getting into a 10-page thread about something that happens naturally, no matter what we do (assuming we actually go around the track and complete the corner).
We counter steer to add lean angle, then at some point the wheel turns in and the bike rotates. If you watch the closeup videos of the camera down on the lower, mounted so you can see the front wheel (like they do sometimes in MotoGP and WSBK), you can see it happen.
But regardless, I do not have the energy, nor desire to debate it. There is absolutely nothing that can possible be said in this thread that will gain me any time on the track nor make my arm heal faster. And like I said, I don't feel like getting into a 10-page thread about something that happens naturally, no matter what we do (assuming we actually go around the track and complete the corner).
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:stupid
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no one here is denying the fact that a countersteer input will turn the bike faster than any other, joe.Put a needle on the steering stem of your bike. Make a mark where it points. Turn. See where that needle points.
It with be damn near dead center. I've actually seen video of it done.
but what actually makes the bike turn is the shape of the front wheel. while leaned left and the wheel rotates, the part of the tire coming INTO contact with the ground is further to the left (and inside) the turn, so the wheel turns the bike in that direction. it is the same thing if you take an old tire and roll it sideways. it will make a circle because of what happens to the contact patch.
getting your motorcycle to that contact patch is what turns, and a countersteer on the bars is the fastest way to induce lean. when pushing your motorcycle, you cannot turn it sharply when it is straight up and down right? no matter how hard you turn the bars, but if you lean it, it will turn sharper. anyone can stand his bike straight up and down and push it and turn to the left, and he will have to make a 56-point turn to get it turned around in the garage. now if one leans the bike far over and onto his hip while pushing, it will turn sharply. the same thing happens at speed. the more lean, the more sharply it turns.
a countersteer push is what creates the lean because a bike is an inverted pendulum, to an extent. it is like standing on a patch of ice and having someone kick the legs out from under you. your torso tumbles to the ground. countersteering is like taking the legs out from under a motorcycle and the top will fall to the ground. what keeps it from falling to the ground is stopping the input. now with the contact patch of the front tire in the position i explained, the wheel creates a turn.
the reason there is other input on the bars on occasion while IN a turn is because of what the contact patch wants to do. rolling that same old tire on its side, you will notice a big circle becoming smaller and tighter and tighter, etc. the input in your bars while in the turn is to prevent that form happening. friction within the contact patch, and the fact that the weight of the machine is on the side of the tire adds more variables.
a countersteer initiates a turn. while in the turn, the dynamics of turning change, and a pushing input is not necessarily countersteering.
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You are still confusing "turn" with "steer"
Let's take lean out of it. Let's go to a car.... a car on ice.
Go fast.
Snatch wheel to left. You just STEERED LEFT. the car will not TURN though. It will go straight.
Counter steering is steering. It is not turning. Once you counter steer, the bike naturally turns.
Words have definitions and meanings.
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riiiiiiiiiiight. that was your point all along... :rolleyes
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Uh... yes. It was. :dunno. And it was exactly what I said the entire time.
You said counter steering isn't steering... :wacko.. it is exactly that.
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If you at lean angle in a corner and the wheel turns in isn't that going to make the bike counter steer and stand it up?
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the completion of the input is the steering, not the start or middle.
disregarding your own definition.
i followed your definition.
i'll leave that one alone.
i said that the steering is not initiated until the input has been stopped or reduced.
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