[coopgt1]

I would stay away from first gear in the corners until you get more experience under your belt. There's too much acceleration and engine braking in first. I'd also get some frame sliders (and gear obviously) if I were you because there's a good chance you're going to bust your ass learning how to corner. It's a very difficult thing to master. I've been riding for 10+ years and am still not all that confident in my cornering abilities.

You need corners and curves to get comfortable on . Fla kinda lacks them . :biggrin

Cornering is easy, figuring out the proper speed for any given corner is harder and that's what needs to be mastered . And that is usually where noobs screw up.

 

[davidhar]

You say accelerate through the turn. I come from the world of fully built muscle cars. (Z06s, cobras, foxbodys and such...) on these cars taking a corner in first was always a no no due to the ridiculous amount of torque youd just immediately brake traction. Does the same apply to supersport bikes? No corners in less than second gear? Ive tried turning in first and the ridiculous amount of torque makes the bike almost feel unstable

First, bikes do not corner like cars. Ever been in a car that tried to lean IN to a corner, and not roll the body out?

Second, if you drive a car through a tight, 10 mph hairpin turn, are you saying you have to be in third? :gaah How about the gear a bike or car is in is determined by the speed of the corner? You need to learn throttle control, even with cars. Being in first doesn't mean a car of any power level will spin the rear unless you give it entirely too much gas. :squid

Accelerate all you can when cornering a bike, in as low of a gear that can get you through the corner. You should be able to wheelie while leaned over. Or, you know... quit the ricky racer bullshit on the street, and stay in a higher gear. All of these are corner exit shots.

In case you have not realized yet, this would be terrible advice for someone scared of leaning to try - or most experienced riders for that fact. Get off the street, get a cheap old used bike to learn throttle control so you don't trash the 600, and get back to parking lot practice.



By the way, "break traction", not "brake traction". Unless you are keeping the tires gripping by some clever use of hand brake...

 

[AnthK7]

The bike you have is the main problem.

It super responsive throttle, steering and brakes give you NO grace for mistakes no learning curve.

So you would be better off buying a cheap 250 which when you sell you will most likely get what you paid for it.

But even if you lost on it the experience skill and FUN you got from it will be well worth it.

You can't learn when your scared and if the bike is twitching and nose diving your going to be scared this is going to make you tight on the bars which is going to make it harder to steer make you run wide on every corner.

A 250 will help you with all the above.
It will be slower in every way= more time for you to react
select the right gear and speed for the corner,
more time to look into the corner and see where you want to go.

And when your back on the throttle it won't jerk the bike as bad and you won't chop the throttle as much (that's the No1 SR) copping the throttle your shouldn't chop it off you should roll off the throttle.

Rolling off will keep the bike from diving forward remember you want to be smooth and stable.

The same things applies with braking.
In a car you can you can get away with being a little ruff on them.
On a bike you need to squeeze the leaver feel the bite then brake harder then ease off the brakes.

The goal is not to have the bike dive on the front, lock up or suddenly release the brake and the bike bounces back up all the above will upset the bike before going into a corner.

If the bike is not settled before the corner giving it throttle is the only thing that is going to help settle it but your SRs will be making you chop the throttle or even brake when all the bike needs is some smooth throttle.

All the above comes so much easier on a 250.






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[ASL]

All of the above.

Just one thing though, I thought any corner tight enough for 1st in a muscle car would pretty much require a 3 point turn, no?

 

[GixxerB]

AnthhK7:

Dude.

Consider writing in actual, you know, like, sentences. With, like, punctuation and stuff. Try it. We're beggin' ya.

To the OP: Leaning your body is not what makes the bike turn. Countersteering is.

You feel like you're going to fall probably because you're not on the throttle through the turn. Remember in MSF how they told you to accelerate through the turn?

Rule 1: Once the throttle is cracked open, it is rolled on smoothly and continuously through the turn.

That does NOT mean you're going from full throttle to wide open. It means that you do not cut the throttle. On a supersport it means just gentle, SLIGHT pressure to keep the bike accelerating JUST A BIT. As in if you whack the throttle open you're going to wind up in the trees. Get it?

How to corner: Note that "lean your body" is not part of this:

Get your speed down before you tip in. Look where you want to go.

LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO.

Did I mention that you should look where you want to go? You go where you look. Look down, go down. Look at the spot on the pavement where you want the bike to wind up, and you'll go there. Really, no kidding.

Countersteer to tip the bike in.

Crack the throttle open and roll it on through the turn.

Really, that's it.

Don't focus so much on leaning. Focus on cornering. That's not the same thing.

Lean is a byproduct of cornering, not the goal. The goal is to make it through the corner. The lean will happen by itself.

Ask yourself what your actual objective is. Is it to look cool, cranked way over with a knee dragging? Or is it to improve your riding and be smooth and quick?

If the former: What are you, stupid? Is this a fashion show or something? And why the hell would you want to do something like that on the street? Take it to the track.

If the latter: Good man! That's the right attitude. Now… why do you care about leaning? Shouldn't you care about cornering?

Said it like Keith himself:cheers well noted!

 

[TOEJAM]

You say accelerate through the turn. I come from the world of fully built muscle cars. (Z06s, cobras, foxbodys and such...) on these cars taking a corner in first was always a no no due to the ridiculous amount of torque youd just immediately brake traction. Does the same apply to supersport bikes? No corners in less than second gear? Ive tried turning in first and the ridiculous amount of torque makes the bike almost feel unstable

No, that isn't true. You take a corner in whatever gear you need to be in to have the RPM you want. There are many times when I take a corner in 1st gear. It all depends on the speed of the corner and the size of the bike im riding.

 

[GixxerB]

My buddy who started riding 3 weeks ago watched it and crashed a day after following me.

Stay the hell away from the video until you are comfortable with your current mechanics and want to push it because the video will make you understand things (give you confidence) you cannot do just yet!

You also fucked yourself hard starting on a super sport. Throttle control is ever so important when turning (as is repeated in Total Control by Lee Parks and Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II). On a starter bike, the throttle is much less aggressive. You have to really fuck up to somehow high side a Ninja 250, GS500F or any of those other starter bikes. If you pin the throttle down mid turn, manage to not low side but scare yourself, then pop off the throttle completely you're in for a world of hurt.

Your survival instinct is to get off the throttle when you are not comfortable, on a 600 that may translate into a lot of pain.

:cheers Point taken. Sorry about your buddy crashing but I go for training every second day and my uncle is a pretty good rider and gives me some pointers as well. My uncle restricted my bike to only go to 140km/h:dunno for now:cursing

 

[Lynart]

:cheers Point taken. Sorry about your buddy crashing but I go for training every second day and my uncle is a pretty good rider and gives me some pointers as well. My uncle restricted my bike to only go to 140km/h:dunno for now:cursing

You don't need it much faster than that on the road. On 30km/h highway ramps I manage to do 90-100km/h and usually use 2nd gear (K8 GSXR-750). I'm sure there are others here that can easily out do me but I can't imagine doing those ramps at higher than 120km/h

 

[e92justin]

yeah i seen part of the totw video and found it helpful. however by countersteering, all they mean by that is simply turning the wheel "slightly" to the opposite direction of the turn to tip the bike in, then once the turn has been initiated straighten the wheel and push/ lean into it? or am i wrong?

 

[e92justin]

just watched this video....

makes no sense at all. dont see where countersteering comes into play. you simply push down on the handle of bar of the direction your going which is common sense... wouldnt "counter"steering be pushing the handle bar in the direction your "not" going?

 

[Bagherra]

Maybe you should retake the course....but this time don't fall asleep...:lol

Find a big ass parking lot and practice, practice, practice and when you're done practice some more....

 

[e92justin]

honestly my instructors never went over countersteering. all they stressed was slow, look, push, lean, throttle. and its been working so far lol. i can maneuver fine doing 90 degree turns, weaving, etc. i think i might already be doing it without knowing it... maybe im just overthinking it... i just wish i could lean lower

 

[coopgt1]

just watched this video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF1ezf8LNNU
makes no sense at all. dont see where countersteering comes into play. you simply push down on the handle of bar of the direction your going which is common sense... wouldnt "counter"steering be pushing the handle bar in the direction your "not" going?

The only way you can turn on a bike is to counter steer . It does not work if you want to make a right hand turn if you push the left clipon and pull the right clipon so that the tire is aimed to the right ( unless your going less than 5 mph). To make a right hand turn you initially aim the tire to the left by pulling the left clipon and as you say pushing the right clipon . This makes the bike fall over to the right which you want it to do to make a right hand turn. At this point you keep constant pressure on both clipons till you start to come out of the turn then you do the opposite of what you did to start your turn to straighten the bike up.

You can actually change the arc of your turn by changing the pressure you're putting on the clipons mid turn ( decreasing radius turn on the streets )

Get back into the parking lot and practice . I wasn't kidding when I said that the last time . You're not ready to be out on the streets . You're not getting the fundamentals we are trying to explain to you .

Watch this vid.

 

[e92justin]

The only way you can turn on a bike is to counter steer . It does not work if you want to make a right hand turn if you push the left clipon and pull the right clipon so that the tire is aimed to the right ( unless your going less than 5 mph). To make a right hand turn you initially aim the tire to the left by pulling the left clipon and as you say pushing the right clipon . This makes the bike fall over to the right which you want it to do to make a right hand turn. At this point you keep constant pressure on both clipons till you start to come out of the turn then you do the opposite of what you did to start your turn to straighten the bike up.

You can actually change the arc of your turn by changing the pressure you're putting on the clipons mid turn ( decreasing radius turn on the streets )

Get back into the parking lot and practice . I wasn't kidding when I said that the last time . You're not ready to be out on the streets . You're not getting the fundamentals we are trying to explain to you .

makes sense now, thanks. was always under the impression that the front and rear wheel always had to be perfectly aligned and straight in a turn. ill go practice that as soon as i get the chance.

 

[kevin.g]

Don't worry about leaning lower. Higher lean angles will come with more speed; lean is a byproduct, not the goal. Don't do anything you're not comfortable with. Higher speeds and lean angles will come with time and practice. If you want to ride hard, take it to the track where everyone is going the same direction and there's nothing to run into. Welcome to GDC and good luck, crushing my soap box now.

 

[AnthK7]

Just be careful when you start actually trying to counter steer, as the bike will turn faster when you counter steer on purpose as a-posed to counter steering by just trying to get around corner which is what you have been doing.

When you counter steer buy choice you should already be looking into your turn that's what will tell you how fast and how much steering you need.

The lean angle will come all on its own as you get faster in the corners you will find the bike needs to lean further to stay on your line.

Just don't forget throttle control as you counter steer you should be just cracking the throttle and I means JUST!!!
So you don't upset the bike you keep the bike smooth and it will feel stable throughout the corner.

Also keep in mind as you go around a corner you loose speed which is why you need to slowing keep accelerating around the corner.

That doesn't mean giving it a hand full just enough to maintain your speed.
Then when your on the exit and your bring the bike upright you can apply more throttle but even then don't just rip it on, roll it on slowly and evenly roll off it the same going into a corner. It's all about keeping the bike smooth if the bike is smooth your SRs will not take over your riding.




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[Carnage]

Let's start by getting those figure 8's down which will be a lesson in throttle, brake, and clutch control in itself. Too many guys want to learn to go fast without first learning to go slow.

DON'T TAKE IT TO THE TRACK.

READ: YET.

The last guy I'd want out on the track is the guy who can't even handle his bike at parking lot speed.

It goes like this. First you crawl, then you walk, then you run. Master the basics FIRST before trying to advance your riding ability.

 

[TOEJAM]

:stupid

We always say "go to the track and get some proper instruction". But that is assuming you have the basics down pat. If you can't confidently pilot your motorcycle to the store and back, or around a parking lot, you have no business on the track. It isn't child's play out there.

 

[rraiderr]

It isn't child's play out there.

Not sure about that, last track day a few of the club racer were playing lets see how hard we can stuff the other riders game.

 

[TOEJAM]

Yeah, that happens sometimes.

Joe and I have been known to get involved in such shenanigans. :lol But the thing is, we have ridden and raced together for over 5 years. At any given time, we know what the other one is going to do and most importantly, know the other one will hold his line (and can handle the stuffing without running off or some shit).

I will do shit like that when I am at track days "battling" with friends/racing buddies that I know and am comfortable with. But I wont do it to the normal "track day guy". Stuffing people like that happens on every single corner while racing. The vast majority of passes are stuffs on corner entry. We are in just as much control passing somebody like that, as we are passing somebody on the outside of a corner or elsewhere. Not only that, but we are used to being passed like that.

So doing such passes at track days isn't a big deal. But again, I wont pass non-racers like that.