[750Newbie]

Ok, First details on the bike:
02 GSXR750 Blue/White with 8088 miles
now it has almost 9100 after two weeks
Hindle Full Exhaust
Yoshimura EMS
BMC Air Filter
Iridium Plugs
Sproket Specialists Sprockets
Don't know the chain manufacturer
and it has some brand Air Shifter (can't find a maunfacturer)
Zero Gravity DB Screen and the Flush Mount LEDs so she pretty

Any now to the problem and the things I have tried:

The problem is when it heats up after it gets over 170-178 if its hot or sits in the sun it will sit and crank all day. If you goose the throttle some times she fires right up sometimes it takes some more work to hit the throttle just right but its a FI bike so this don't make sense to me. At 1500 RPM it seems like its jerky or hiccups which could just be tuning issues.

And due to the fact it was raced. The guy before me installed a switch for the fans to be constantly on (makes sense to me for when you are sitting at the line maybe not up to temp, I have never raced so I dont know why) but with the switch off the fans won't kick on no matter the temp.

This leads me to believe that a temp sensor, specifically the ECT isn't working correctly and therefore could be sending the FI the wrong information on how much fuel to dump in because the ECU cant tell what temp the bike is at.

So I went to the local Suzuki Dealer and wasn't really impressed with the guys that worked there but asked them what could cause this. They said unplug the EMS maybe its bad if it is it will just go back to stock tuning. So I did and the bike immediately threw a FI light and a Chec code and wouldnt start. I plug the EMS back in and if fired right up I dont know what code cause i dont have a mode seletor switch yet. Sorry for the long post but I just got the bike and the first day I got it it started doing this and I live in NC so its always hot.

Amaze me withyour wisdom.

 

[gixxereater]

Did you simply unplug the EMS or did you by pass it? If you just unplug it then no, it will not work. The EMS goes in line (as a loop) between the ECU and the injection harness. If you take out the EMS and hook the ECU directly back to the FI harnes.......THAT will get the EMS out of the loop and eliminate that. If you did this incorrectly then go back and try that again and see what happens. Also check or set the TPS.
Dont buy a mode selector switch, either make one or jump it like everyone else.

http://www.bugmanweb.com/gsxr/gsxrmain.html

Click on Home on the left (the GSXR) and read. It may be useful to you if you havent already found it.

Doesnt sound like a temp sensor to me. Probalby just coincidence. The EMS however could easily cause that problem if it's got issues.
Take it out and make sure the TPS is set correctly. If you do this correctly and it still throws the code, use a paperclip and see what code it throws and report back.

 

[750Newbie]

Thanks for the reply. I took it out of the loop, and plugged the ECU back in but what I have recently heard is that you need to reset the ECU to get the bike to start/run normally? Which I don't know how to do, but I am asuming it is like every other electrical system where if you disconect the ground to the battery it will go right back to its original configuration. Also how would I know if the TPS is calibrated correctly? See another problem is I cant get the EMS to link to my laptop running vista and yoshimura took 5 days to get back to me and i never ended up with a breathing body so i could order a replacment manual or see if they offered a patch th EMS software is only good up to windows 98 oddly enough thier product is for an 02! I really wish it just had a PC3 there is much better technical support from them.

As far as the Mode selector switch goes, I used to be an installer putting electronics into cars and I hate spliced stuff it never looks clean enough. So when there is a clean little adapter thats cost ten bucks that I can plug right in i'll go for that. I'm also thinking about resale and it just looks/is more professional. (personal preference is all, but out of desperation and because of availablitity I might just splice it though)

 

[gixxereater]

Yes, yanking the battery will reset the ECU but you shouldnt have to. The fueling is changed later. All the ECM does is alter the stock fueling + or - depending on how its mapped so the stock never changes.
To set the TPS read Bugmans page, it's very descriptive and has pictures.
To do it though you will need to put it in dealer mode. (Jumper). You dont have to splice it, just pull the cap off the harnes in the tail and use a paperclip for the time being. Jump the pins together. You can splice in a real switch later.

I find it odd that when removing the Yosh stuff and putting it back to stock that it wont fire and throws an error. Was the connector on tight?

Start with the error and see what number it is (also referenced on bugmans page or here as well)

 

[750Newbie]

Again thanks for the info. Clips were on tight. Yeah I guess when I get back from work in two weeks I'll take it apart again. My main concern now is that if I put it back to stock and reset the ECU/Disconnect the power I will also lose the settings in my EMS which at this moment

A: I can't access to change and
B: Don't know what they are.
Although if its not running right with it (EMS) plugged in, who cares right?

But with all the problems and lack of suport for the Yosh EMS I might just put it on ebay and buy a PC3 USB that I can tune myself granted I dont have a Dyno. Being as I can never get ahold of tech support at Yoshi and when I leave a message they call me back almost a week later. I just want to find out whats wrong with the bike, But putting it back to stock seems like the best way to go. A guy at a shop told me about the resetting it crap but he seemed to just agree with everything I was saying instead of giving me information.

Thanks for your time man, I'll get back to you in a few weeks and let you know how it went.

Oh and thanks for the Bugman link hes got a bunch of cool little time wasting projects and alot of helpful stuff on there. He does a great job with his instructions and the pictures.

 

[750Newbie]

Oh and how do you like the GSXR 1000? is it that much different then the 750? handling wise? and power wise? Only thing close to a liter bike I have been on was a 954 with a -1 sprocket in the front and a PC and exhaust.

 

[boostenlebaron]

the ems and pc are almost the same things. what works for one works for the other. you can actually copy and paste maps from each other. dont worry about stored maps they stay with the unit even if unplugged. as far as resetting thats a load of bs. the ems is a piggy back and intercepts the stock ecu signal and modifies it. doesnt do anything to the ecu itself. you should be able to unplug the unit at all the connections and itll fire up. you really got to remove the unit entirely to get it out. youve probably got a bad map in it. when they go bad they go bad. try hooking it up to your computer to see whats in it.
as for the fans some people bypass the auto start feature entirely. should be hard to reinable but id imagine he bypassed it for a reason other than racing. its a semi common problem for the fan to stop working. the bypass is a common cure.

 

[gixxereater]

The 1000 is not the same sport as the 750. The 750 is set up for my wife to ride it so the ergos are tight for me, pegs are set high and back, seat is shaved, suspension set up for her. I have not ridden it since I adjusted the chassis attitude but it could only have helped it. It was set stock with less preload in the rear for her light weight so it had a nose up attitude. Dropped the front 5mm and raised the rear 5mm and NOW it sits like it is supposed to. I only rode it with the front down 5 and it helped noticably so the rear had to have gotten it about right.
The way it was, my 1000 was quicker side to side but I think that has changed now.
As for power.......it's no contest. The 1000 has WAY more low end power. The 750 is a stormer when rung out though!!! It's geared -2 +1/520 so it accelerates like a raped ape. Just no low end power comparitably speaking. They are both fun in their own way.
A friend had a 954......it was easier and quicker handling, the ergos were closer, not so stretched out but it lacked power compared to the 1000. The 750 will knock it's door over.
The 954 was a fun bike though. It certainly needs a steering damper. Lots of head shake on it.
The R1 of the same generation is also close. Again, down on power but not as bad as the 954. Comfy too. The only one I've not ridden is the ZX-9R........some day maybe.

 

[750Newbie]

Ok so an update. I got home from work finally after three weeks and had sometime to mess with the bike. I pulled the tank off pulled the Yoshi EMS wires off and put it into dealer mode after reconecting the stock ecm wires. SO in dealer mode I had a code c12 (ckp sensor). So, I measured the tolerances as per the Suzuki God Book on this bike and it was within spec, I was just about to go order a ckp sensor when I noticed that the Yoshi EMS is tapped into the CKP as well!! F#$%in BINGO! unplugged those wires put her back to stock and she fired right up, no lights, no codes. With this said I am going to take her for a ride and see if I get anymore codes and see what she runs on the Dyno tonight at bike night. This whole ordeal leads me to believe my whole problem was tuning and I am presently bidding on a $100 laptop just so I can run windows 98/2000 to meet the Yoshi requirements. Has anyone ever dealt with an Air/fuel gauge I know they make them for cars but didnt know if they use em for bikes. This would allow me o tune it with out a Dyno.

Thanks to everyone that posted back to me and Bugman's site is awesome as far as detail.

 

[gixxereater]

:biggrin
Nice. Motty's and Bazzazz both offer A/F ratio equipment that is on a closed loop and will "tune itself" eleminating the need for a dyno tune. (or that i the theory anyway)

They are spendy but no more than a PC III and dyno tune. Might be worth looking into. I would expect Dynojet to come out with something soon that will compete or they won't compete anymore. By the time you spend the money on the lap top you might as well save the money and get one of the above mentioned units. Your EMS might be bad, it would suck to throw money at it and not know if it's bad or not?
Let us know what it throws down on the dyno. unk

 

[ekjesse]

Fun post fellas

 

[750Newbie]

Sadly the bike night where mobile dyno goes is over for the season. So there go my $25 dollar dyno runs. When I did run it on the dyno it ran a peak of 93HP with the EMS which I thought was less then the bike even put out stock? And with the EMS taken out it definately lacks some power all through the rpm range certainly in the midrange. My buddy's 01 with a PC3 custom map and Arkapovic Exhaust ran 125HP and he had the sheet to prove it so I was less that extatic. On top of that my buddy ran his 600 Telefonica with a D&D slip-on and a tooth down in the front and pulled out 96HP, Sadly he totaled the bike a few days ago. RIP little GSXR. Thankfully he limped out of the hospital later that day, so hes got plenty be happy for about after a 75mph crash. And I'll tell you the bike is DESTROYED.

Whats a good exhaust to run on these bikes it has a full Hindle now. I would like something a bit more aggressive sounding. I know the D&D's sound awesome once the packing flattens out/wears in but I was wondering if they are a decent full system? I am kinda turned off by Yoshimura in general between the turn around time and the lack of support they have for thier products, even if it is discontinued (they did actually send me a new software CD but they offer no patch for Vista and printed out an instruction manual for me but from the time I called them till I got a response and the stuff in my hand was about a month).

Thanks again guys, maybe I should start a new post for a different question but, I think this thread has gone pretty well so far.

 

[ekjesse]

"Rings" and bearings - motor sounds tired, race wear

 

[boostenlebaron]

i used to use a beater palm pilot to tune ems/pc3. then i got a free beater laptop to do it and both worked fine although the palm was smaller. id imagine some of the newer smart phones could do it now as well. so its something for you to check out.
so are you keeping the ems or replacing it?
the full hindle is a very nice system. no matter what you switch too youll basically be throwing money away in regards to geting more power since you wont. d&d's are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of niceness. quality is so-so, they are very loud, and give very little power gains. if your gonna swap out a perfectly good expensive system for another system you might as well go big. arrow, tiforce, ackro, arata and hindle are all on the top of the list.

 

[750Newbie]

"Rings" and bearings - motor sounds tired, race wear

I mean it runs fine no odd sounds, Idk how much it was ever raced it only had 8800 miles on it when I got it (which is a hell of a lot if it was raced every weekend, it was drag raced, and the guy didnt even extend it so I can't imagine he was all that serious about it) Plus if he raced that much I figured he would have put the bike down at some point. I mean granted you can beat it just as much on the street but usually riders that beat thier bikes end up going down and its never been down. There are only like three scratches on the bike and a little nick in the swing arm from throwing a chain I think.

Plus with bad rings it would smoke and bearings you would hear it. Mechanically its fine now that I pulled the EMS out which leads me to believe the original problem was either a bad map or the commander shit out but i figure it was more a bad map. Also if it had internal damage like that when I ran it on the dyno the mechanic I figure would have noticed it and that would have been a true tell when she hit around 12k bearings would have been screaming. Suposedly he's the best around here and been working on bikes for like 20+ years.

The guy I got it from said he put about 6000 miles on it and he had chicken strips about and inch an a half into the tire and I saw the old tire he had on it and it was the same way so he was a novice rider at best that maybe liked to wind it out on the highway. He barely knew how to use the air shifter so figure 2800 miles of possibly hard use?

As far as the exhaust I have been thinking along the lines of a devil high mount 10'' with a full system just cause I would have to replace the whole system because of the way the Hindle goes together plus I figured to sell the Hindle to come up with the money. Its just for looks and sound really. Performance I have heard is a marginal difference between brands so. I have heard the Hindle is nice but a bottom of the barrel full system.

Sorry for the long post thinking out loud but it gives you a history on the bike granted what I was told was true, but looking at the bike it kinda backs it up.

 

[rockford4u]

The sensor is over 200 deg F to kick Fan on, at least my stock time for the fans to come on seems 220oF as well as my friends '03 1,000, you wont know until that threshold is met.