This can be taken to mean, that crashes on large-displacement motorcycles are more likely to be more violent (which in this case means terminal).the large motorcycles (750~ and above) represent approximately one-third of all the accidents but are involved in approximately one-half of these fatal accidents.
The data regarding the significance of rider experience in accidents, considers the experience with "street bikes" and "dirt bikes". In the first case, many stages of the first four years of riding are considered separately, but for dirt bikes only the presence or absence of experience is considered.Is that sportbike data, cruiser data or does it encompass all riders?
Also one should keep in mind that the report was based on research carried out in 1975-1980, around specific locations (Los Angeles) and probably only included reported accidents.The conclusions are concise. Inexperience is excessively associated with accident involvement: and inexperience is best measured by the subject motorcycle. High levels of experience are underrepresented in accidents, but how is that considerable experience obtained without exposure to accidents? In these data shown, experience levels between seven months and four years does not clearly distinguish that experience as beneficial. Only when the experience is much greater than four years is there a significant benefit demonstrated.
Good point. I learned on a CRB900RR in 1995. Rode that bike all summer. Didn't touch a bike until I bought my 600 in 2005. Granted that's a long time, but I'd swear that the 600 was a measure above that 900 in all respects.Good info in that report. Just started reading it. Something to consider also, bikes have only gotten faster, weather that just means down low grunt, or high end speed. One wrong move on current machines vs. the ones from the 70's and 80's could mean two very different things. I'd be curious to see this report redone today.
This is a 250... Against 1000's. Think again when you say it doesn't have passing speed power. It has plenty of power to pass passenger cars/trucks/whatever in the right hands.I've read through a lot of this thread.
Respectively I am a new rider. I ride with a lot of long time and very good riders. I've only ridden for a shy under 2.5 years. First bike was a 2003 GSXR 600. the day I first got it running, threw a battery in it and took it around the block. I wasnt 100 from my drive way and my first thought (having ridden dirt 20 years ago) was this sure aint no dirt bike. My first few rides were always with a respected rider. I did what I was told and listened to what was said. I listened to everything tried everything told and took and used what I felt worked for me. I have found 300-600cc to be the range for a first rider. the smaller bikes under 300 dont give you the power respect, and dont have the power either to make you respect it. I have known a few to buy some 250, and get to school and work which is a great idea. BUT then they get out there and think they have power at highway speed. go to pass and get into trouble. Which has multiple issues in itself.
Our group now has some new riders both to us and to a bike. Some are thinking Im an experienced rider and am "nuts" I ride well within my ability, and is shown when out top 2 riders leave me hanging, and are eventually seen at road side waiting for me. They know I will eventually catch up cause Im not going to try and "keep up" depsite I get razzed about being in the back. I dont let that get to my ego. which also seems to be a problem with some. We have one new rider who was braggin how dad bought him some big yamaha 750 cruise when he was 15, but he sold it. blah blah he'd be leading the pack. Well first ride out, even I had to stop and wait for him. Well one day coming home there is one corner the lead in is straight with a rise up then to a hard 90 right where the road cambers up a bit. So as your cornering (speed limit 50kms) the road kinda drops away from you. i've got that dialed in now. well I come through that corner and take a glance in the mirror to see him "keeping up". well good thing there were no parked cars on the right cause he was off the road in the gravel. It was close but he didnt go down. told him again when we go to his place... dont keep up. Most of the advice we give he takes, doesnt really use it, but hopefully I dont have to see him go down let alone "wreck".
we have ridden with a few that after one ride none of us want to ride with that person again cause of their bad habits and actions so we just lose their number. And we dont ride in large groups usually try to keep it about 4-6 of us. if there is more its segmented out with group leaders and you ride in your group. then if something happens is easier to react. such as the initial story of the group being told someone was missing. If Im riding with 2 new members and I go through the corners come out and only see one, Im probably turning around to check.
Dont put weak riders to the back either. I suck it up and generally I ride in the back to eyeball new riders to pinpoint their techniques and flaws, offer suggestions about riding. The odd time I get in front have fun through a few corners, sandbag it and wait for them to catch up, if not im going back to check.
We have a new rider first street bike is a 98 ZX9R. He was like why are all you guys on 600's? we were like why are you on a 1000. The bikes are shorter lighter and I can keep up on the 1000 if I have my game face on easier. our long time 1000 riders are jealous as hell cause "our ass isn't even out of the seat". im constantly telling out one rider, stop shifting so much, we all run this road in generally 1 gear. You have 16000rpm to use. use it. Every time you shift its a chance of a mishap, or as some have said, catch the wrong gear.
But anyways slow day at work and now im rambling.
I think your just bad luck to ride with!So we hear this phrase all the time, used mostly when people want to buy their first bike, and don't want to listen to advice given by more experienced riders, which is to start small, like on the Yamaha R3 or Kawasaki Ninja 300.
They will say, "Oh, I will be ok on a 600/750/1000/Busa because I will just respect the throttle, and that the bike is only as fast as your right hand makes it.
The biggest determining factor in getting a first bike is what will happen when you fuck up, which you will. Making a mistake on a bike you should not be on will result in very bad things happening to you and the bike and possibly people around you.
Let me give you some examples.
1. I was riding back in 2005, and was leading a group ride. A new rider joined us, and said he would stay at the back, keep it slow, and respect the bike. He was on a brand new Kawasaki ZX-10R. He did what he said, stayed slow, and thought he was respecting the bike. However, he hit a pothole. The bump from the pothole caused the rider to grab a handful of throttle, which made the rear tire spin up. He didn't know what to do, and closed the throttle. Doing so proceeded to highside him into a tree. Had he been on a smaller-cc/less powerful bike, the rear tire wouldn't have spun. Had he been more experienced, he would have known not to close the throttle, and just ride it out. So he wound up in the hospital, with a destroyed bike.
2. Was riding with a new rider, attempting to help him learn the ropes a bit. He was on a K6 750 at the time. We were riding down a rural street, doing about 35mph. He thought he was in thrid, when he was actually in second. He grabbed a downshift, and instead of hitting second, he drops into first and the bike lofts the wheel. He panics, keeps the throttle open, and loops a wheelie. All he was wearing was a tank top and jeans. He didn't have collision insurance either. As the bike loops over, and lands on top of him, it hits the pavement and cracks the stator cover, spilling hot oil on him. So he is now covered in hot oil, sliding down the pavement, with a bike on top of him. I have never heard a grown man scream and cry like I did that day, especially when they took the wire brush to his road rash at the hospital. Bike was destroyed.
Those are just two examples. There are plenty more, I just don't feel like typing them. Maybe others will chime in.
I just hope that this whole "respect the bike" bullshit goes away. You can't respect a bike enough not to make mistakes on it. That goes for anyone, whether it is me, Marc Marquez, or a new rider. We all make mistakes. It is the bike we are on and our relative experience levels that determine what those mistakes do to us.
Start small. Take the MSF courses. Take track schools once you have the basics of riding down.
Hope this helps.
You are correct in saying equally skilled riders will go faster on bigger bikes, but don't forget the discussion is about new, unskilled riders saying a 250/300 can't be fast enough. And as the video shows, in the right hands, it can be plenty fast. That is the point I was making. I was not saying anything about skilled riders.Carnage said:Somehow, this seems to be the go to video in recent years to prove a small bike can be just as fast. I agree that it's good for these arguments and I also 250/300 can outright brillant in the right hands. There are lots of lap times from your favorite tracks around the country to prove it. The problem I have with that video is that it shows a very talented rider doing a trackday (not a race) up against some less than talented liter bike riders clearly cherry picking. You have to wonder if .....I don't know. Take the same someone with the same level of talent, with the same level of understanding of his particular machine (regardless of displacement), and put him on the same racetrack. The 250 get's left behind easily.
I'm hoping the same with mine. Going from the carb'd 600 to an fi 750 since this past spring is like night and dayNo worries man. Just take your time on the 750. They have been incredibly fast for a while now. The 750 will reward you once you begin to get along with it. :cheers