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Discussion Starter #1
Weaving
Makes For
Good Collisions
By Dave Swarts
Weaving to warm tires is a fiction that just won't die. All sorts of riders who should know better can be seen weaving wildly on warm-up laps, and we've seen plenty of collisions and near-misses caused by one guy weaving into another guy on a warm-up lap. Yet some riders persist in the belief that weaving actually does something other than create a hazard. So, since we had gathered a test bike, a test rider, all sorts of measuring instruments, some extra tires, and had a track to ourselves for our big tire test (Roadracing World, January, 2000), we decided to test the effects of weaving on motorcycle tire temperatures.

We conducted this experiment using Mark Junge and his 1999 Kawasaki ZX-6R, at Oak Hill Raceway. Michelin tires were used for this test, the front a standard Pilot Race, and a Pilot Race "W" on the rear. First, we measured the cold tires' core temperature in the middle and on both sides of the tread, front and rear. We then sent Junge onto the track to ride slowly in a straight line and then measured the tire temperatures. Then we instructed Junge to weave aggressively from turn eight to turn two and back again (approximately one-half mile), and measured the tire temperatures again to see how much heat was produced in the tires.


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Weaving on the warm-up lap won't warm-up your tires. It will, however, make it easier for you to run into other riders on the warm-up lap. Photo by Brian J. Nelson.


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Next, we let the Michelins cool off. We then heated the tires on warmers for 45 minutes per Michelin's recommendation and took the tire temperatures. Then Junge went out and did the same weaving and temperatures were taken again to see if additional heat was built up or if heat was lost.

Next, Junge was sent on a standard warm-up lap. We then quickly measured the tire temperatures. Then Junge did another 1.8-mile warm-up lap, this time weaving, and we measured the temperatures again to see if weaving built additional heat when compared to a standard warm-up lap, kept the heat in, or lost the heat. Then we did the half-mile of weaving again before taking the tire temperatures yet another time.

To complete our test of tires and temperatures, we sent our rider out on two normal warm-up laps. Once back on the starting grid, we stopped the bike with the tires remaining on the pavement just as you would sit on a grid with the 3-minute board in the air. Then we measured each tire, as quickly as possible, to see how quickly the tires lost the heat built up on the warm-up lap.

The first thing that we discovered while trying to take the temperature of the cold tires was that the sun has a significant effect on a tire's temperature. Our test bike was under a canopy but the front tire was still in direct sunlight on an 88-degree, Texas afternoon. Just from sitting in the sun, the front tire had between 10 to 20 degrees more heat at the tread's core, not the surface.

When Junge rode in a straight line at line at approximately 40 mph for about a half-mile, the shoulder of the tire that was in the shade remained at 85-88 degrees F. The temperature at the center of the tires went up slightly while the shoulder of the tire facing the sun also started picking up heat. Then our rider went on his weaving course and came back. Once again the side of the tire facing away from the sun and the center changed very little. The side of the tire facing the sun continued to gain heat. We attributed this solely to the sun as Junge was careful to weave equally hard on each side of the tires.

Junge went back to his task of learning Oak Hill on his "A-bike" while we took the weaving test bike back under the canopy and applied Tyr Sox tire warmers for 45 minutes. After the warmers, the rear tire had about 129 degrees F across its entire tread while the front held 171 degrees F on the right, 175 degrees F on the left, and 182.4 degrees F in the center. Both warmers were on for the equal amounts of time.

Just as I was organizing a theory into how the tire warmers have equal heating elements but the (120) front tire has less surface than the (180) rear tire, I noticed that the bike had been put back in its original parking spot with the front wheel in the sun. Although I can't rule out my equal tire warmers versus different-sized tires theory, I can't rule out that the strong sunlight increased the effect of the warmers.


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The most effective way to warm-up tires is to park the bike in the sun and use tire warmers. This is Miguel Duhamel's Honda RC51 at Daytona. Photo by Brian J. Nelson.


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As soon as we took the post-warmer temperatures, Junge went out to do the same exact weaving course. The right/away-from-the-sun side of the rear tire lost 12 degrees of heat. The right side of the front lost 45 degrees. The center of the rear lost 5 degrees of heat. The center of the front lost 43 degrees. The left side of the rear tire that was facing the sun stayed steady at 129 degrees while the left front only lost 36 degrees. Once again weaving did not build or hold the temperature. The sun had more effect than weaving.

As soon as these temperatures were taken, Junge was sent off to do a normal hot lap on the twisty, 1.8-mile course. After the hot lap, the heat in the rear remained fairly constant, cooling just a few degrees. The front continued to steadily lose its significant tire warmer heat. However, the left sides of the tires were the warmest parts. We could not attribute this to the sun because throughout our two-day test, tires always recorded higher temperatures on their left sides after doing any laps at speed on the track.

Then, we sent Junge to do an entire lap of weaving. Again, the weaving failed to hold heat anywhere on the tire. Then Junge once again did his straight weaving test, and the tires began cooling rapidly. In fact, during weaving the tires lost heat as rapidly or more rapidly as just standing still.

For our final test, we sent Junge out to do two laps to get some heat in the tires. Then as the bike stood still on the racing surface just as it would on a grid, we measured how quickly the tires lost their heat. I had originally hoped to measure the six spots on the tires every 10-15 seconds. That proved too ambitious. I ended up measuring each spot every 45-60 seconds. Next time, I'll have two pyrometers. This was very interesting, though. While the center and right sides of the tires lost 10-12 degrees over a 4-minute time period, the left side of the rear lost very little heat and the front gained heat from the direct sunlight.

Here are some conclusions. Tire warmers will produce the highest pre-race tire temperatures. During the tire comparison test consisting of 8-10 laps at 100 percent speed, we sometimes did not record temperatures higher then straight off the warmers. So the best way to warm tires is to use tire warmers.

The second-best way to warm tires is to take a hot lap. As powerful as the sun proved to be, a good hot lap produced more heat than time in the strong sun, and it's quicker, too.

The third-best way to warm tires is to leave the tires in strong, direct sunlight. Just don't forget to get both sides.

But weaving, no matter how aggressive your lean angle and your speed or how long the distance covered, does not build any additional heat in a tire!

So now, we will hopefully never see another unfortunate accident from useless weaving on a starting grid or pit lane. Case closed.


Comparison Of Tire Temperatures As Affected By
Warming Methods And Ambient Conditions
Ambient Conditions And Temp Probe Location In Sun Rear, Left In Sun Rear, Center In Shade Rear, Right In Sun Front, Left In Sun Front, Center In Shade Front, Right
Warming Method
Cold Tire 85 87 86 94 105 98
Straight line, slow 89 98 85 95 106 87
Weave aggressively 96 99 87 99 104 88
Tire warmers 129 130 127 176 182 171
Warmers and weaving 130 129 115 139 139 126
Std. warm-up lap 124 122 122 130 126 120
Weave, 1.8 mile 121 118 120 129 117 119
Weave, 0.5 mile 118 115 110 114 109 113
Comparison Of Tire Temperatures As Affected By
Time On Grid And Ambient Conditions
Start Temp 128.6 123.6 120.8 129.0 116.4 111.6
+0:45 seconds on grid 127.6 117.0 115.4 128.6 115.6 110.6
+1:45 seconds on grid 126.8 116.0 114.6 128.2 113.6 110.6
+2:45 seconds on grid 125.4 115.0 112.0 127.2 113.6 106.0
+3:45 seconds on grid 124.0 111.8 108.2 125.6 113.0 104.8

All temperatures in Fahrenheit. Track temperature was 86 degrees; ambient temp in shade was 88 degrees. Cold tire pressure was 30 psi in front, 28 psi rear. Tests were conducted on Michelin Pilot Race tires.
 

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yeah i hate seeing weaving on bikes..... F1 cars I can understand since they are flat and their contact patch is always on the road, but....

there's no replacement for tire warmers!!!! or, a good lap or two to warm em up.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
RIriderRR said:
I read that very article a while back....Where'd it come from?...can't remember.
i have read it before as well ., but figured it was a good reminder ., actually now a remember it was in cycle world.....

just found it again on the jennings board..
 

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I think the whole weaving started way back when the 2 smoker racers did it to make sure the gas and I think castor oil was mixed.

njracer
 

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RIriderRR said:
gixxerfever said:
all you jackasses weave so shut up!!!! JACKASSES!!!!
Maybe...But~ You do it During a race...............Remember...I could see you at VIR for the few seconds it took to get by you.
i was weaving to get past your slow asses and on the straight i had to weave to keep you JAckasses from passing me hahaahah
 

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yea this is how my temate Darla just got taken out last weekend at jennings!

now she may be out for the season
 

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Discussion Starter #11
RidinNY said:
cant wait till feb track day!! I'm gonna weave right into you fools

geee that would be something new ., .NOT ........... lets hit a curb too while you are at it .,


weave to get the dirt off the tires would be it !!!
 

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RidinNY said:
cant wait till feb track day!! I'm gonna weave right into you fools
thats a very bad subject at the track right now
 

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weaving to keep the tires clean isnt a bad idea though.. many people do it to make sure there is no shit on the sides of the tires so they are nice and clean going into the first turn.. and it makes people feel better to weave for some reason. although i have known for a long time that the whole weaving thing was a myth.
 

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bmfgsxr said:
weaving to keep the tires clean isnt a bad idea though.. many people do it to make sure there is no shit on the sides of the tires so they are nice and clean going into the first turn..
I don't think weaving cleans anything off your tires.......UNLESS you have gone off roadin and have dirt/rocks all over your tires.

njracer
 

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some jackass was warming his tires waved her and her student by then ran them off the track

Darla= broken scalpula (shoulder blade) broken ribs hands trashed but nothing broken, and rotator cuff inflammed
 

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Holy shit....did this happen on sunday?? Did George just absolutely freak out...do u have their address? if so, PM it to me, i wanna send her a card and maybe some flowers
 

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2nd sesson on sunday

i have it at work ill email it over to you.

just give her a call you lazzy bastard. if you send flowers then i have to Jackass
 
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