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Discussion Starter #61
A slipper is a safetynet, not a crutch. I've watched some youtube vids of guys on liter bikes going from full throttle, 160mph down the straight from 6th gear to third in about a second and a half. Kinda makes me jealous when I wheelhop it in to a corner thinking I'm going down to second and wind up in first.

That's where I want to get to. Being able to break it down as I approach the corner and be nice and smooth while doing it.

When I first started working on my throttle blipping I found it very hard to blip it while staying steady on the brakes. I found myself accidentally stabbing the brakes while trying to blip the throttle.

I've gotten better at that, now I'm trying to work on not taking so long between the blip and clutch release that I lose the benefit of the blip (rev-matching) in the first place. And I'm also working on being quicker with the whole process, but I figure that will continue to get better as I get smoother. Sometimes I get in a groove and feel like I'm nailing it, and sometimes it just feels...off.
 

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I will continue to try and improve my shifting, up and down. I have been using the clutchless up-shifting almost exclusively but it sounds like my roll off/roll on may just be too slow to take full advantage if the clutchless up-shifting benefits. I'll practice being quicker. Also, as I continue to watch the video it sounds like I'm winding a little too high in the gear before shifting, so I'll work on that as well.

I will follow Carnage's advice and re-watch the throttle blipping section of twist of the wrist and continue to practice that. Maybe the next trackday I can spend the whole day working on up-shifting, down-shifting, and vision, and that's it.

Which leads me to vision. Misti, I watched that view facing me from the front and it looks like I'm not turning my head to look at the corner until I'm already turning in. Doing both at the same time is not good. It's something that you've mentioned to me before and it seems I need to refocus my attention there too.

I think I would have more info about the turn if I were looking in much earlier. It would help me decide what's the best line to take from where I am, to where I want to be. I think that would help me carry more corner roll speed because I would be more confident that I'm on the correct line. Also, when I look further ahead my sense of speed changes and it doesn't feel like I'm moving too fast, which should also help keep me from over slowing. And I would be able to see the exit better which should help me with getting on the gas sooner and more aggressively.

Sounds like I have my next set of things to work on over the next few trackdays.
Excellent! You were able to see it on the video and then realize what can be improved if you look into the turn sooner (before you begin turning the bike) Give it some focus and attention and let me know what improves and how it feels when you choose to look into the corner before you actually turn the bike! Awesome, I'm excited for you! Now, when you look into the turn WHAT exactly would you want to be looking at? :grin2:
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Misti, when I look into the corner I would be looking for the apex and my line to get there. As I continue through the corner I should keep my eyes up and looking through the corner to see the corner exit which tells me what I'm going to do with my throttle, when and how aggressively.

Anything else that I'm missing that would help me?
 

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Misti, when I look into the corner I would be looking for the apex and my line to get there. As I continue through the corner I should keep my eyes up and looking through the corner to see the corner exit which tells me what I'm going to do with my throttle, when and how aggressively.

Anything else that I'm missing that would help me?
Sounds great. You want to look into the turn BEFORE you begin turning the bike and as you said, you are going to look at the apex. This will give you more information about the corner and how much you need to press on the bars to get it turned etc, and will also slow down your perception of speed so that you can carry more speed into the turn. Then as you say you want to look up to the exit and keep your eyes flowing from one reference point to the next smoothly. Just work on the timing of when you look into the turn!!!

So, besides carrying more entry speed and having more info about the corner, what else will looking into the turn AT THE APEX sooner help you with?
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Sounds great. You want to look into the turn BEFORE you begin turning the bike and as you said, you are going to look at the apex. This will give you more information about the corner and how much you need to press on the bars to get it turned etc, and will also slow down your perception of speed so that you can carry more speed into the turn. Then as you say you want to look up to the exit and keep your eyes flowing from one reference point to the next smoothly. Just work on the timing of when you look into the turn!!!

So, besides carrying more entry speed and having more info about the corner, what else will looking into the turn AT THE APEX sooner help you with?
Honestly I'm at a loss for what I'm missing. I'm racking my brain and can't figure it out. We've already mentioned the correct line, corner entry, slowing down the sense of speed, and corner exit.

I didnt specifically mention mid corner roll speed, which should be able to increase, but I dont think that's what you're looking for. We also covered vision as well. Looking in earlier allows me to transition my vision to my next marker sooner.

I'm lost. What am I missing?
 

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Misti, when I look into the corner I would be looking for the apex and my line to get there. As I continue through the corner I should keep my eyes up and looking through the corner to see the corner exit which tells me what I'm going to do with my throttle, when and how aggressively.

Anything else that I'm missing that would help me?
When you're in the corner, you should be looking for your breaking marker for the next corner. If you're at the apex looking for your exit point, you're looking too close.
 

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Honestly I'm at a loss for what I'm missing. I'm racking my brain and can't figure it out. We've already mentioned the correct line, corner entry, slowing down the sense of speed, and corner exit.

I didnt specifically mention mid corner roll speed, which should be able to increase, but I dont think that's what you're looking for. We also covered vision as well. Looking in earlier allows me to transition my vision to my next marker sooner.

I'm lost. What am I missing?
I love that you are putting so much time and effort into analyzing your riding and thinking about all aspects, that makes me happy :). All good things listed above in terms of what is improved when you look at the apex before you turn the bike. The thing I was really looking for is something that all racers/track riders aspire to (or should aspire to) and that a is consistency. If you have specific RP's and are looking at them before you actually get there, then you will be more consistent with your lines and with your overall riding. The other thing that can change and improve is the rate at which you end up steering the bike.....without knowing where you want to be BEFORE you turn the bike, steering can be lazy and slower than if you know exactly where you want the bike to end up. Hope that makes sense :)

When you're in the corner, you should be looking for your breaking marker for the next corner. If you're at the apex looking for your exit point, you're looking too close.
.

Not if you can't see your next braking marker.....
 

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Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
Both of those made absolute sense as I read your reply. And I feel like such a putz for not realizing that, especially the consistency. But I'm glad i asked. I can't wait to get my next trackday. And i appreciate everyone's input as i try to keep improving.
 

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Both of those made absolute sense as I read your reply. And I feel like such a putz for not realizing that, especially the consistency. But I'm glad i asked. I can't wait to get my next trackday. And i appreciate everyone's input as i try to keep improving.
:thumbup Let us know how it goes!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #71
It's been a little while but I finally got in some more track time. I did a 3 day event at Autobahn Country Club in Joliet, IL Aug 31-Sep2. First time on track in a few months. I went in planning to spend all 3 days working on corner entry (lots of subcomponents) and mid corner roll speed. Thankfully the instructors pointed out some of my old bad habits popping up, assuming from the long layoff, so I ended up working on those instead. Practiced the line, smooth throttle control, cut out some excess body movement, etc... Ended up being noticeably quicker at the end solely as a by product of working on the areas they pointed out. Good thing too, because I think I would of crashed if I had tried to go faster with the bad inputs I was giving the bike initially. Here is some video. Please let me know what you guys see/hear. I've noticed some things that I would like to clean up but would love for you guys to let me know what more experienced eyes and ears notice.

This is the last session of day 3 and I wanted to push myself just a little to see how everything I'd worked on tied together. I tried to slowly ramp up each lap and feel like my best lap was the last one which starts around 8:45 iirc.

 

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It's been a little while but I finally got in some more track time. I did a 3 day event at Autobahn Country Club in Joliet, IL Aug 31-Sep2. First time on track in a few months. I went in planning to spend all 3 days working on corner entry (lots of subcomponents) and mid corner roll speed. Thankfully the instructors pointed out some of my old bad habits popping up, assuming from the long layoff, so I ended up working on those instead. Practiced the line, smooth throttle control, cut out some excess body movement, etc... Ended up being noticeably quicker at the end solely as a by product of working on the areas they pointed out. Good thing too, because I think I would of crashed if I had tried to go faster with the bad inputs I was giving the bike initially. Here is some video. Please let me know what you guys see/hear. I've noticed some things that I would like to clean up but would love for you guys to let me know what more experienced eyes and ears notice.

This is the last session of day 3 and I wanted to push myself just a little to see how everything I'd worked on tied together. I tried to slowly ramp up each lap and feel like my best lap was the last one which starts around 8:45 iirc.

Autobahn!!! I haven't ridden there in like 14 years!!! Hahahah. I'll take a look at the video soon, but just wanted to say good work on taking the time to gradually ramp up your riding and to work on specific techniques. Well done. Give me a few days and I'll get back to you about the video!
 

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Use more track. You're leaving a lot of room on the inside, and even more on the outside. This makes every corner tighter and slower than it needs to be.
 

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I like how you are setting up early and body position seems to be good (some small tweaks maybe) but one question for you is this: Do you think you are as accurate and consistent with hitting your apexes as possible? Before you turn the bike into a corner, what exactly are you looking at?
 

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Discussion Starter #76
I like how you are setting up early and body position seems to be good (some small tweaks maybe) but one question for you is this: Do you think you are as accurate and consistent with hitting your apexes as possible? Before you turn the bike into a corner, what exactly are you looking at?
No, I'm not consistently hitting the apexes where I think I need to be. In the corners that I'm most comfortable, I think I'm consistently where I want to be. But there are others that I'm either to far away or I'm apexing too early which makes me have to wait to accelerate out of of the corner which kills my drive.

Before I turn in I'm looking for brake and turn in markers. When I know I'm in line to hit a particular marker I try to transition my vision to the next marker and use my peripheral vision to guage when I've reached my target. I'm looking at apex when I turn in and once I know I'm in line to reach my apex i move my vision through the corner to my exit. On corners that I'm comfortable with i think this process is pretty smooth. On ones that I'm not as comfortable on I think I drift in too early like the inside if the track is my safety blanket, and I sometimes look at the apex too long.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
I'm also starting to try and get more comfortable steering with the throttle. On some of these corners I should be accelerating to push the bike wide and use all of the track. On some corners I'm comfortable doing it, on others I'm steering out to the edge of the track instead of allowing my acceleration to push me out there. It's a habit I'm really having to develop my confidence to execute consistently. If I dont focus on it, I dont do it. Its definately not easy to get used to it. And its costs me lots of time and mph when it's not done right.
 

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No, I'm not consistently hitting the apexes where I think I need to be. In the corners that I'm most comfortable, I think I'm consistently where I want to be. But there are others that I'm either to far away or I'm apexing too early which makes me have to wait to accelerate out of of the corner which kills my drive.

Before I turn in I'm looking for brake and turn in markers. When I know I'm in line to hit a particular marker I try to transition my vision to the next marker and use my peripheral vision to guage when I've reached my target. I'm looking at apex when I turn in and once I know I'm in line to reach my apex i move my vision through the corner to my exit. On corners that I'm comfortable with i think this process is pretty smooth. On ones that I'm not as comfortable on I think I drift in too early like the inside if the track is my safety blanket, and I sometimes look at the apex too long.
How specific would you say your apex reference points? On the corners that you are consistent hitting your apex, are you chasing an EXACT apex RP? What about the corners that you are less comfortable with? Are the RP's as EXACT as the others? If you put more attention on choosing an exact apex, could that help? Or what about the timing of WHEN you are looking at the apex? You mention that sometimes you drift in too early....It could be that on those corners you are looking into the turn and turning at the same time. Having a delay from WHEN you look into the turn to spot your apex, to when you actually turn the bike can help you be more accurate with hitting the apexes as long as you have a specific RP to look for. So instead of looking and turning at the same time, you would look to the apex first...pause...and then turn the bike. This gives you more info about the corner and where exactly you want the bike to end up. Of those two scenarios, which one do you think rings more true for your situation?
 
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