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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

This is going to be long, I apologize in advance.

I kind of touched on this in my "starting line" thread, which really did start as just an introduction but people were asking for pics and being super helpful over there so the discussion started to get technical. I hope starting this thread doesn't break the rules.

Anyway, I bought my bike (2008 750) a month or so ago, with a little under 12k miles. Its in good shape and runs great. The first thing I did was get new tires put on it since the ones on it were pretty bad. While I was at the shop they let me know about the 2 recalls; front brakes and rectifier. I said no problem, I'll bring it in soon when my work schedule allows.

In the meantime I rode it some, did some maintenance on it since theres no telling when or if that stuff had been done. I replaced the spark plugs and air filter. I planned on changing the oil and flushing the coolant, but I've been working a ton of overtime lately (I had like 4 or 5 days off this month), and since the bike was going to be at the dealer for at least a week anyway I just had them do the oil and coolant while it was there. Also the bike had been lowered and I found the factory suspension parts and had them swap that out while it was there too.

So they had the bike for a little over a week then they called me and said it was ready. I went to pick it up, hopped on it and rode off, and something was VERY wrong. When you give it throttle it just bogs down, like falls flat on its face. After a while it catches itself and takes off pretty good, but I didn't open it up or anything to see what it would do at higher RPMs. It was so bad that it was a struggle to get up to the speed limit. Also the idle bounces between about 1k and 1400 RPMs. Ever since I bought this thing and right up until I dropped it off at the dealer, this thing ran great. Now it hardly runs at all.

So I turned it around and took it right back to the dealer and said there is something WRONG here. I explained what was going on to the service writer and he said that the tech had mentioned that the SET valve was stuck, and that he freed it up or something like that, and that's probably what it is. I asked him to take it for a ride and he did, and he agreed that he felt what I was feeling (how couldn't he?). I said I need this thing fixed, he said you'll have to drop it off (it was toward the end of the day) and I said "here it is, I'm not taking it anywhere like this." Then he said they will look at it and if they determine it was something they did they will cover it, but if not its on me. I said good luck with that, this thing ran great when I dropped it off, you're going to have a hell of a time trying to tell me it didn't happen while it was here.

Well anyway yesterday morning they called me and said its going to cost me THIRTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS to get it fixed. They said it needs a new SET valve (the one they were messing with but didn't tell me about until I brought it back all fucked up) and a fuel pump. I said you guys are going to have to figure out something else because I'm not paying you another 1300 bucks to get this thing running the way it was before you messed with it.

Now is my favorite part: He said "well on these GSXRs when they aren't running right the first thing you look at is the spark plugs, so our tech took them out and said they were new." I said "yeah I just replaced them about a week before I brought it in." Then he says "well that right there tells me you were already having problems with it running right and you changed the plugs to try to fix it." I said "NO, I just bought this thing used, and I have no idea when or if these maintenance items were done, so just like with anything I buy used I want new plugs, new filters, fresh oil and fresh coolant in it."

We went around and around about that for a while and I said alright I'm going to have to cool off and think about this, I'll call you back in a few days, in the meantime don't touch the fucking thing.



So now that I've vented and explained whats going on, I have some questions for you guys.

Based on the symptoms I described, what do you think is really wrong with it? Would the SET valve even cause this? He said that some teeth were broken off of the servo (I think this happened when he was trying to "free it up"), but even if that were the case, would it cause all the stumbling or would it just be down on power from the exhaust being blocked? And would that cause the fluctuating idle?

My initial thought was that maybe a sensor or an air hose didn't get plugged back in somewhere... I know there are like 3 sensors and 1 or 2 air hoses that go into the air box... would something simple like that cause it?

Im asking all this because my plan is to go talk to a manager in person on Tuesday, and I'd like for them to show me the bike and show me exactly what is wrong with this SET valve. I'd like to look at it with them and while we're at it I want to look for sensors and hoses or whatever else might have been left out. I have a feeling they aren't going to budge on this and I'm going to have to bring it back and figure it out myself, which is fine, Im sure I can figure it out its just the principle of the thing, and I don't think I would trust them to work on it anyway even if they did agree to do it. Either way there's no way in hell they're getting $1300 from me to get it running the way it was before they jacked with it.

So what would you guys do or look for?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Squid
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Go get your bike back and download a service manual. They probably just left a sensor unplugged.


Go buy a healtech OBD tool for 200 some bucks and figure out what's going on yourself. Its going to be simple. You don't need a SET valve- they are just throwing parts at it instead of troubleshooting it.
 

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That’s Mister Chalet To You ....
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The SET valve will make a barely discernible difference in torque as you go up in rpm. Since most peeps disable it anyway, there's no way it (functional or not) can cause anything as you've described.

Assuming you're not full of shit and the bike ran fine when you brought it in, their claim of a faulty fuel pump sounds fishy to me.

So there are two fishy elements in this story:

  1. The dealer claiming you need a new fuel pump on a bike that was running fine before. If it did run fine, that's definitely bullshit.
  2. I too lit-up when you said you changed spark plugs. Honestly, that sounds suspicious. No one changes plugs at 12K miles. That's like changing oil every time you fill-up.
 

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Owner/service manual calls for spark plug replacement every 7500 miles; even though they are iridium tipped plugs. I think that's stupid, both engine oil and air filter are only to be replaced every 12,000; I'm pretty sure they don't really need replacement but it's in the manual.

If the fuel pump was shot it would never pick up power; doesn't make sense.

SET valve only moves at higher RPM, does not explain the bog either; if it were stuck it wouldn't pick up either, it would just be bogged down all the time.
 

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Something is definitely fishy. Is this an authorized Suzuki dealer? Not that it should matter because you can get better service with a mom and pop shop sometimes. Did they themselves even bother to test ride the bike? I'm wondering why they would tell you it was ready if it was behaving like that. Unless they are going to fix it for you I would take it somewhere else. For the record, many of us don't even run with set valves. Fuel pump however could definitely cause the symptoms you described. Let us know what happens on Monday.
 

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I personally wouldn't trust them as far I as could throw them. Secondly, I wouldn't have thought twice about you changing your spark plugs on a used bike. I did the exact same thing with mine, even though the previous owner claims he changed the plugs himself recently. I will be changing the oil soon as well as other fluids (he did have receipts from a shop indicating that was all done), as were brakes and tires.

However when I removed the plugs on my K7 600, they definitely looked like they needed to be changed so I changed them to the E3's. These are all things my father always mentioned to check and change when you buy anything at all that has a motor and is used!

I've dealt with shady shops in the past, never again! I have downloaded the suzuki service manual and will be purchasing a hard copy clymers eventually. I'm sure you'll get it all straightened out, just go through it slowly and one thing at a time. :)
 

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Hand-Eye Coordinator
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Did you drain the old gas out?

Do a site search for dealer mode. Put the bike in dealer mode and ride it.

Simplist thing that may cause your issue is a kinked fuel line. While th etank is up, you may as well do a fuel flow test. A site search will tell you how, or as is better, get your shop manual. There is actually a trouble shoot topic like you are experiencing in the manual.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thanks for all the input guys. To answer some of the questions and concerns:

Yes this is an authorized Suzuki dealer.

I don't know if they test rode the bike before or after they worked on it. The only test ride I know of is when I brought it back and asked the service writer to ride it to feel it for himself. He did, and he confirmed that it's not running right.

Yes I changed the plugs even though I knew they probably didn't need it. As others have said, the manual says every 7500 miles, and I always assume that they had never been changed, and at 10 bucks each, why not? Now I KNOW when they were changed last. Besides on a machine like this I like to look at them to get an idea of how it's been running. The old plugs didn't look bad to me, but I already bought new ones so I changed them out.

I did not drain the old gas out.

I've been meaning to ask the shop if they can order me a service manual. I've looked online, I found one and downloaded it but I can't for the life of me figure out what year it is for. It's very similar to mine but it must not be for the exact same year, because I've noticed some differences like the sensors that plug into the air box are in different places in the manual than they are on my bike.

As far as the fuel pump goes, I guess I didn't mention in my first post that they said (this is over the phone the day after the problems arose) that they checked the fuel pressure and it's 20 psi, but it's supposed to be at least 46. If that's the case, it was either not like that before, or it was like that before but 20 psi is still enough to run the thing and something else is causing the problem, because it showed no symptoms before.
 

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Dreaming of buttsecks for years...
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Fuel pumps go bad. It happens. You purchased a used bike and that's part of it. Don't get twisted about it since it's probably just coincidence. Secondly, getting into a pissing match with the dealer isn't going to get you anywhere. Lastly, any shop that is going to say it's probably the SET valve without actually doing the diagnostics PRESCRIBED in the manual is incompetent.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Alright guys I appreciate all your advice, in case anyone is interested here's how it went.

Went in today and had a chat with the service manager in his office.

He says the problem is the fuel pump, and not the SET valve. I asked him if there were any codes being thrown for that valve and he said there was one stored in the memory so it had thrown a code at some point. He says it's the servo motor that's broken, and I still think they are the ones that broke it, but I can get another one for like 15 bucks and I'd rather just do that and put it on myself if I need to.

So it took some (civilized) bickering back and forth but here's what we agreed upon:

I will pay for the fuel pump, and they will pay for the expedited shipping and the labor to install it, and if that still doesn't fix the problem I have it in writing that they will reimburse me for the cost of the pump and fix the issue at no cost to me. At that point if it's not fixed already I really don't have any confidence that they CAN fix it, but at least with that in writing I believe I have what I need to take it to someone who can fix it then take this place to small claims court for the cost.

I'm going to make sure I get the old pump back, that way I know they actually replaced it instead of just plugging in whatever sensor or vacuum line they left unplugged and pocketing the money for the pump. At least that was my thinking at the time, but after I left he called me back and said man I apologize, but they can't get a fuel pump, Suzuki and all their suppliers are out of them, they would have to backorder it and there's no telling how long that would take. I'm thinking "here we go again..." but I called a couple other dealers that aren't affiliated with this one and they told me the same thing, can't get one. So that sucks too, but at least that tells me they actually planned on replacing the part, not just taking the money and plugging in a sensor.

So I found one in stock at partzilla, it was the same price as it would have cost from the dealer (about 25 cents less actually, woohoo). So I ordered it and will give it to them when it comes in.

So anyway, I still don't really agree that I should have to pay for parts that I believe were working fine when I brought the bike in (the fuel pump for this thing is EXPENSIVE, too), but if this actually works out then it seems like the quickest and easiest way to get it fixed without having to take a day off work to take them to court and all that mess. If they're just trying to fuck me, they're really going out of their way to do it at this point and they're actually losing money on shop time, so while it has cost me money in parts they failed to actually make money off me if that's what they were trying to do. I don't know if I can have the old pump checked while it's off the bike to see if it's really bad or not, but if I can then I'll know if it really was bad or if I have a spare fuel pump I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
In case anyone was interested...

I got the bike back and it's running good again. They installed the new fuel pump. I still believe there was something else going on; I think it's pretty unlikely that the fuel pump was fine and then suddenly went out right before I got on it to leave, but it is what it is. Water under the bridge now I guess. I'm just glad to have her back!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Maybe so. Seems especially convenient when it just happens to do it when it's at a place that can fix it for only 1300 bucks. Man i got lucky.
 

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The fuel pump can fail but doesn't do so very often. What does happen is that the main filter gets clogged. The service manual details how to test it, i.e. there's a flow test. New filters are expensive but way less than an entire new pump.

A SET valve that's stuck closed will act like a cork in the exhaust and limit power. Aside from looking for the associated codes, the first thing to try is to watch it (the pulleys at both the actuator and the actual valve) during power on. It should move from closed to fully open and back. Beyond that, there should be some tricks involving disconnecting a lead to the ECM and setting the valve so that it's always fully open as a way to test whether it's a problem. The instructions for aftermarket exhausts like from Yoshimura will detail this. However they recently got in legal hot water for for that and it may take some digging to find the un-redacted instructions.

I don't know about shady but that dealer could easily be incompetent.
 
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