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Planning to up the ante on my AHRMA weapon. Along with the never ending quest for HP comes the obvious issue of the chassis reinforcement. I first became familiar with Structural Bonding about 8 years on a snowmobile reconstruction. Polaris, among others, were (is) using this process extensively in multiple product lines. This rebuild was an eye opener as to where and to what extent the Adhesive was used. For those not familiar with the sport of Snowmobiling, the physical loads, shock, temperature extremes and sheer abuse the chassis is subjected to is quite frankly beyond that of most off road sports. And while I may not push it as hard as I used to, 8 years later this rebuild has stood the test and I am a believer!!!

This has led me to wonder if this would be a viable option for Frame / Swingarm bracing due to the inherent issues with welding such as heat treating, annealing and dimensional distortion (warping).

I've attached an informational video from Polaris and there are many other regarding the process used in aerospace and automotive applications.

Just curious what others may think?

 

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thanks for posting that. very interesting. My .02 for what its worth is that Polaris is optimizing their designs to take advantage of this method of construction, which is mixing dissimilar metals. A gixxer frame is not designed with this in mind. most braces you would be adding would be for rigidity not strength so you would be probably using aluminum, so at that point i would just weld it. If you could figure out a way to bind carbon that might be worth it. I would get a junk frame and do some tests and see how it turns out. Its hard to say if it would work until you get in it.

the other side is that it would ruin the period correct ju-ju you got going on. Nice bike!
 

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thanks for posting that. very interesting. My .02 for what its worth is that Polaris is optimizing their designs to take advantage of this method of construction, which is mixing dissimilar metals. A gixxer frame is not designed with this in mind. most braces you would be adding would be for rigidity not strength so you would be probably using aluminum, so at that point i would just weld it. If you could figure out a way to bind carbon that might be worth it. I would get a junk frame and do some tests and see how it turns out. Its hard to say if it would work until you get in it.

the other side is that it would ruin the period correct ju-ju you got going on. Nice bike!

In MotoGP they use "glued on" carbon on both frame and swingarm to experimence with stiffness of the frame/swingarm.
 

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The K5/K6 1000 frame brace is attached with structural adhesive and, somewhat to my surprise, seems to be fine. I think that Doc-Rot is spot on about designing to use this method, i.e. it's not to be used without careful thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks for posting that. very interesting. My .02 for what its worth is that Polaris is optimizing their designs to take advantage of this method of construction, which is mixing dissimilar metals. A gixxer frame is not designed with this in mind. most braces you would be adding would be for rigidity not strength so you would be probably using aluminum, so at that point i would just weld it. If you could figure out a way to bind carbon that might be worth it. I would get a junk frame and do some tests and see how it turns out. Its hard to say if it would work until you get in it.

the other side is that it would ruin the period correct ju-ju you got going on. Nice bike!
Thanks. Where I saw it used first hand was Al to Al on the bulkhead. I've gotten the impression that the process works for most (rigid) materials as long as the correct adhesive is used. I've got a couple spare swingers I'm going to experiment with. My concern about welding is the Warping many have mentioned. If it twists or deforms, it kinda defeats the purpose. Finding a good AL welder is not a problem, finding one who might be familiar with this application is a different story. I certainly don't have the background or knowledge involved in cold forming, stress relieving, annealing and heat treating.
If tech has provided a better alternative, I'm game ;)
 

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I'm not particularly knowledgeable about this but the sense I get is that the epoxy used for the frame brace is highly rated. It seems to be made by Nagase ChemteX under the Dena Tite name with part numbers AV138/HV998. They even claim good adhesion to teflon! Others like their AW106/HV953U have a higher adhesion rating to aluminum. The AV138/HV998 seems to be also sold by Hunstman Advanced Materials under the Araldite name and I don't know what that's about. It's not cheap.
 

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I don't think you really need to worry about loss of strength from welding. The alloy that Suzuki used seems to age naturally and recover its strength over time. I'd suggest sending the parts to Dr. John in California and let him do the work. He's been doing the bracing since these bikes were new.
 
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