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Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

Whatever your issue is has nothing to do with the issue being recalled. There have been no reports of sudden brake loss. Just gradual loss in feel.

Sudden loss of brake pressure is is usually caused after a large head shake or bump from rotor deflection if it is happening mid ride.

If it is happening in a short time span while sitting the bike likely is not bled well. May need to try a new bleeding technique (this is where you say you know how to bleed and where I tell you I've developed a better technique for a finicky system.)
 

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BoredzWhore
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Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

If you have to bleed every time you ride, then bleed your fucking brakes properly before you kill yourself or someone else.

EDIT: that was a little harsh, if you have a lot of air in your system, and repeated bleeding isn't helping, check other connections. You might have a loose banjo bolt allowing air in, not tightening the bleeder screw enough, or even a hole in the line somewhere. You know, normal maintenance stuff.
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

It is NOT "air in the system", nor is it the pads getting whacked back. These incidents have occurred after the bike has sat for a while, in the driveway. I also have the gradual loss in feel but, what do you think's causing that that is any different than is causing the issue I describe? It's the same problem, just taking longer to manifest.

The letter from Zuk specifically states the wear/corrosion causes a buildup of gas in the system and that could very easily lead to the pooling of that gas at the highest point in the system, namely the master cylinder. I am not an idiot and this braking system has never been opened or worked on, other than for regular inspections for condition. The bike has only about 20,000 km on it and has been inspected regularly. I teach motorcycle mechanics for a living.
 

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BoredzWhore
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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

Well, you may claim you're not an idiot, but if you haven't changed out your fluid in 20,000 km, then you've done something wrong. Also, if you teach people to work on motorcycles, then you should DEFINITELY know that brake fluid deteriorates while sitting, also when exposed to sunlight, oh and also weather changed affect it. Hence why it's regularly changed out. But hey, it's never been opened.

Maybe you need to be re-certified on braking systems.
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

It is NOT "air in the system", nor is it the pads getting whacked back. These incidents have occurred after the bike has sat for a while, in the driveway. I also have the gradual loss in feel but, what do you think's causing that that is any different than is causing the issue I describe? It's the same problem, just taking longer to manifest.

The letter from Zuk specifically states the wear/corrosion causes a buildup of gas in the system and that could very easily lead to the pooling of that gas at the highest point in the system, namely the master cylinder. I am not an idiot and this braking system has never been opened or worked on, other than for regular inspections for condition. The bike has only about 20,000 km on it and has been inspected regularly. I teach motorcycle mechanics for a living.



It also states over long service intervals. By you saying you need to bleed every time you ride it is quite apparent that it is NOT the problem in the service recall.

Your original post made it seem as if it is a sudden loss of all brake pressure. Not one caused by the bike sitting or over a long service interval on the brake system

You say you bleed it every time you ride, yet then say it has never been opened. Bleeding is opening. Bleeding properly requires a significant amount of fluid be passed through the system to be done properly and as such is assume you have also opened the reservoir to add fluid.

When is the last time you bled the entire system? When is the last time the fluid was changed?

Where do you teach? If you indeed are a teacher then you should know everything I just said yet it seems you don't

The brakes are notoriously difficult to bleed. That is why the new master had the return port on top

I will nearly guarantee you if you took the time to bleed in the manner inlay out in my brake bleeding sticky in the "mods and how to"'section of this forum you will find your system indeed does have air in it, and unless the bike is sitting idle for extended periods (as in months) the problem will be fixed without the new mc.

If you choose not to I will bet the new mc does not fix your issue either. Especially if you install it yourself and continue to bleed "without opening the system" which I can't imagine how that is done anyway.
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

I am not an idiot and this braking system has never been opened or worked on, other than for regular inspections for condition.
after 7 years? considering the manual calls for line replacement after four...

you obviously haven't removed the calipers and replaced seals, cleaned the calipers, inspected the pistons, torqued all bolts to specs, etc.

i am not a certified motorcycle mechanic like you, but i would bet that could be an issue.

what if your m/c IS faulty, but it has nothing to do with the recall? motorcycle m/c require rebuilds sometimes...

to produce enough gas to make your brakes spongy in a short period, that would mean that your lines are taking in a lot of moisture and there would be damned-near no steel spring left in your m/c.
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

Oh for god's sake. I said I burp the gas out by applying a little lever pressure and cracking the top bleeder. That's it. That firms up the lever temporarily. Then slowly it softens over a good long while.

The bike has been regularly inspected to ensure no parts are out of order. There hasn't been any need to get into the brakes up til this situation, as everything was in spec and functioning perfectly. As I said, it has only 20,000 kilometers on it. I know goddamn well and teach that you regularly inspect parts and ensure they are in working order and you don't throw away perfectly good spec pieces. Even the brake fluid is still pretty clear on the bike.

Shall I quote all you doubters Suzuki's own words?

"Corrosion of the brake piston generates gas which may not be adequately purged from the master cylinder [italics mine] due to the side position of the reservoir port."

The bike sat for a good long while in the first instance, over many months. The gas collecting from the piston corrosion in the mc resulted in a big bubble of gas right at the MC. What do you think is going to happen? The lever touched the bar and no brakes. I checked the pads for knockback, found none, checked for leaks, found none. Cracked the top bleeder with a little pressure on the lever til I saw a bit of fluid, tightened her up and it's been working since.

The letter has been sitting on my desk waiting for attention for a long time. Now I know what they were on about.
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

buddy, you are five years late changing your brake fluid. your lever went to the bar and you still didn't bleed your system. according to your manual, your brake lines are out of spec 3 years and your brake fluid 5. nothing about your situation demonstrates an understanding of motorcycle mechanics and it is downright dangerous.

stop blaming the MC. seven year-old glycol brake fluid is well past its service life. this recall has nothing to do with your foolishness.
 

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Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

Oh for god's sake. I said I burp the gas out by applying a little lever pressure and cracking the top bleeder. That's it. That firms up the lever temporarily. Then slowly it softens over a good long while.

The bike has been regularly inspected to ensure no parts are out of order. There hasn't been any need to get into the brakes up til this situation, as everything was in spec and functioning perfectly. As I said, it has only 20,000 kilometers on it. I know goddamn well and teach that you regularly inspect parts and ensure they are in working order and you don't throw away perfectly good spec pieces. Even the brake fluid is still pretty clear on the bike.

Shall I quote all you doubters Suzuki's own words?

"Corrosion of the brake piston generates gas which may not be adequately purged from the master cylinder [italics mine] due to the side position of the reservoir port."

The bike sat for a good long while in the first instance, over many months. The gas collecting from the piston corrosion in the mc resulted in a big bubble of gas right at the MC. What do you think is going to happen? The lever touched the bar and no brakes. I checked the pads for knockback, found none, checked for leaks, found none. Cracked the top bleeder with a little pressure on the lever til I saw a bit of fluid, tightened her up and it's been working since.

The letter has been sitting on my desk waiting for attention for a long time. Now I know what they were on about.

I know what the recall says. You can't take a small part if it and try to justify your crappy maintenance habits.

If you were to read my how to you'd see my method makes the reservoir port location irrelevant.

And with what you quoted, what makes you think "burping" the system as you call it is doing a damn thing? I needs a FULL bleed which would include changing ALL of the fluid.

First post you made it seem like you are having to "burp" it every day. Or every week. Now you are saying "good long while". I call that back pedaling.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic. Your seven year old fluid is garbage. It is wet. It needs changing. The fact you Asa "mechanic" have not changed it or did a full bleed and replace when faced with a less than ideal braking system seems suspect to me. That is the first thing any good mechanic would do.

If you did some routines maintenance mr teacher your brakes would likely work properly for a good long time. Just as the recall says ;)
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

buddy, you are five years late changing your brake fluid. your lever went to the bar and you still didn't bleed your system. according to your manual, your brake lines are out of spec 3 years and your brake fluid 5. nothing about your situation demonstrates an understanding of motorcycle mechanics and it is downright dangerous.

stop blaming the MC. seven year-old glycol brake fluid is well past its service life. this recall has nothing to do with your foolishness.

:stupid
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

Not just to jump on the wagon here Ken, but my K7 always sat through 4 months or so of winter, than sat for the better part of TWO YEARS after my brain tumor, & the lever was rock hard at all times with no issues whatsoever. Except for when I was sick & not riding at all, I changed the brake fluid every year.
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

Nothing missed in the braking system regular maintenance is going to result in the lever banging off the bar as if it wasn't even connected to the piston. You leave it too long or wear things down too much you'll get impaired performance but it's very unlikely you'll get NONE AT ALL.

Something else happened here, like the gas from the piston corrosion pooling in the MC.

You don't just need to bleed a sealed brake system every once in a while because you feel like it. You bleed it when you change pads or if you are changing fluid because you have opportunity, or if you've cooked the brake fluid through heavy use or if you find a leak and initiate a repair, because you have to. Just randomly bleeding is totally unnecessary on a cruised around streetbike.

It is quite possible to inspect parts for condition and determine if they need replacing based upon that evidence. That's what every mechanic used to do in the age before parts-replacers took over.

We shall see, all you charm school graduates. Suzi will take it apart and replace the MC. They sure as hell won't replace the lines or pads free of charge, nor will they likely let me perform warranty work myself. Everything else will be as it was, other than a little newer brake fluid. Lets see if the problem persists beyond that.

I will bet my bottom dollar changing out the MC fixes the whole damn thing. I will come here and eat crow if I am proved wrong in this.
 

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BoredzWhore
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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

I bet since they have to take off your MC, that they will bleed the whole damn system like they are paid to do.

You're a piece of shit mechanic if you can't follow a simple maintenance schedule. It's CLEARLY printed in black and white when certain things need to be replaced/refreshed.

You are really that special kind of stupid if you think that "cracking the bleeder to get the gases out" constitutes as brake servicing.

If you want, I'll make it really easy for you to see that you are to REPLACE the fluid and REPLACE the brake lines as a NORMAL service.

Also, if 2 highly respected people in this community, who do these things on a regular basis, say you're wrong, then you probably wrong.
 

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Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

You say you don't bleed or change fluid until it shows a problem

Do you maintain your oil the same way? Air filter? Chassis grease points?

Your fluid needs to be changed and properly bled.

Any improvements you get from the recall will be because your fluid is then NEW! :idea.

The recall issue happens over long service intervals only. Yours definitely qualifies as long/poor service :thumbup

And your story has changed over the course if this thread ;)
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

You guys are great at attributing motive, rearranging information and at crafting all kinds of assumptions, once you've formed an opinion. I know what happened here in my own garage. If I've not expressed it perfectly to your satisfaction under repeated abuse, so be it.

To review and correct the record, for those that need it and to refocus on the core issue:

Bike's been sitting for many months, unused, since the previous season, in fact. It has been stored properly, in climate controlled conditions. It's pretty much as good as new, despite having a few years on her. I went to ride, checked over the bike like I always do. Brake lever pings off the bar like it isn't even connected. I check and see that it is. It is.

Hmm, says I, maybe pad knockback when I moved it about in the basement and out to the garage...pump the lever a few times...nothing. Pull a caliper, hmm, pads seem seated. Check the other, the same. Alrighty, I thinks, maybe a leak and some air inside. Check every fitting, every hose, all looks perfect. Let us see, thinks I, before I pull out the mity vac, lets just open the upper bleeder with a touch of lever pressure on, then no air will enter and anything not brake fluid in there can escape under the light positive pressure. Do that and the lever's back to normal. Weird...says I, then I remember the letter sitting on my desk awaiting my attention, which documents a significant issue with the MC that could result in impaired front brake performance. What conclusion would you draw, since it appears to be displaying similar symptoms to what is described, if just a little more extreme?

The fluid in the resevoir is still a natural blonde on this bike. The pads are about 25% worn It's ridden a few times a year, maybe, when I feel like it and is cleaned and stored properly in climate controlled conditions when I don't. It doesn't need TBO overhauls. It just needs a regular lookover and inspection to ensure everything is in good working order. This I do, as any "shitty mechanic" will tell you to do, with any vehicle, particularly one not used regularly and thus in less familiar condition when returned to service. It isn't rotting in a field covered in bird shit, 150% humidity with a half a tank of stale 87 in it.

I will stick with this thread, just to prove all the assholes and haters wrong, or to take my lumps if I'm proved wrong. Stay tuned, Suzi locally is ordering the part and we'll go from there.
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

you are a colossal idiot.

"we'll wait and see if the M/C recall fixes my issue." it will. but it is not the MC fixing your issue. it is the fresh fluid. even after that long paragraph of yours, i still don't see the term torque wrench.
 

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Re: Stop sale & Delivery new/used GSXR's brake MC recall

You guys are great at attributing motive, rearranging information and at crafting all kinds of assumptions, once you've formed an opinion. I know what happened here in my own garage. If I've not expressed it perfectly to your satisfaction under repeated abuse, so be it.

To review and correct the record, for those that need it and to refocus on the core issue:

Bike's been sitting for many months, unused, since the previous season, in fact. It has been stored properly, in climate controlled conditions. It's pretty much as good as new, despite having a few years on her. I went to ride, checked over the bike like I always do. Brake lever pings off the bar like it isn't even connected. I check and see that it is. It is.

Hmm, says I, maybe pad knockback when I moved it about in the basement and out to the garage...pump the lever a few times...nothing. Pull a caliper, hmm, pads seem seated. Check the other, the same. Alrighty, I thinks, maybe a leak and some air inside. Check every fitting, every hose, all looks perfect. Let us see, thinks I, before I pull out the mity vac, lets just open the upper bleeder with a touch of lever pressure on, then no air will enter and anything not brake fluid in there can escape under the light positive pressure. Do that and the lever's back to normal. Weird...says I, then I remember the letter sitting on my desk awaiting my attention, which documents a significant issue with the MC that could result in impaired front brake performance. What conclusion would you draw, since it appears to be displaying similar symptoms to what is described, if just a little more extreme?

The fluid in the resevoir is still a natural blonde on this bike. The pads are about 25% worn It's ridden a few times a year, maybe, when I feel like it and is cleaned and stored properly in climate controlled conditions when I don't. It doesn't need TBO overhauls. It just needs a regular lookover and inspection to ensure everything is in good working order. This I do, as any "shitty mechanic" will tell you to do, with any vehicle, particularly one not used regularly and thus in less familiar condition when returned to service. It isn't rotting in a field covered in bird shit, 150% humidity with a half a tank of stale 87 in it.

I will stick with this thread, just to prove all the assholes and haters wrong, or to take my lumps if I'm proved wrong. Stay tuned, Suzi locally is ordering the part and we'll go from there.



Your first several posts iirc (I don't care enough to go back) indicted you have to bleed "every time you ride". Now you say it has been sitting "for months"

Those two statements are very different. And would garner two very different results.

Your fluid is still old. Just because it's color is ok (meaning it doesn't have trash in it from the liners breaking down or pad dust migrating past the calipers and such) doesn't mean it isn't wet. It needs changing.

You didn't answer. Do you just change the oil when the bike
Begins to show issues or the oil
Color isn't satisfactory? Or do you actually change it periodically on an industry standard change schedule?

Doesn't matter where it was stored the brake fluid degrades. It is hygroscopic. It gets wet.

With the recall part the wet fluid actually breaks down faster.... Hence the "long service interval" part of the notice.

Believe it or not. I don't care. But the issue you are having has as much do with your poor maintenance practices as anything
 
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