School Me: K1 750 Nitrous Addition

This type of dry nitrous kit was popular about 10yrs ago and worked ok,but the perfected(and safer)method is to use the dry nitrous kit with a spider spray-bar that distributes the nitrous evenly into each intake tract of the cylinders.
You need to have a dedicated nitrous map made,and for anything more than 30hp,higher octane fuel is the safest bet.

It's more expensive this way,but still cheaper then melting something. IMO,power adders are reliable when supporting mods are made accordingly.

Personally,I'd never use a dry kit like the Dynotune you asked about without having it checked on a dyno&with someone who is very familiar with nitrous/turbo setups monitoring the AFR throughout the entire rpm range with an exhaust sniffer when the nitrous is activated. I'd rather be much safer then sorry.:thumbup

I don't know much about nitrous setups, but from the description, (and a bit of research on Dynotune's site), it seems to me like what they're doing is more or less like water injection. As the liquid NO2 vaporises it cools the intake charge down, but I can't see how that would magically fool the ECU, into spraying the correct amount of extra fuel. The ECU will adjust for the lower intake temperature and hence higher charge density just as it would if you cooled it in some other way and only air entered the cylinder. That would be fine, as you'd still get some power boost with no perceivable damage to the engine, only the NO2 contains oxygen (and about 12% more than air). I have no idea if it'll decompose completely and release all the oxygen but I'd certainly be worried about lean conditions developing.

You are adding oxygen with nitrous so you must add fuel. The factory inlet temp sensor being cold from the nitrous will compensate for small HP gains without modifications.

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Still, this is misleading. Well, basically it's just wrong. Perhaps it is the case that "for small HP gains" the AFR wouldn't be too far off to cause any damage, but the IAT sensor can't adjust for the extra oxygen from the nitrous, just for the extra density due to the cooling effect of its vaporization. The extra oxygen in the nitrous oxide, the whole point of nitrous setups as far as I know, not only goes unutilized, but probably leans out the mixture as well.

dpapavas said:

Still, this is misleading. Well, basically it's just wrong. Perhaps it is the case that "for small HP gains" the AFR wouldn't be too far off to cause any damage, but the IAT sensor can't adjust for the extra oxygen from the nitrous, just for the extra density due to the cooling effect of its vaporization. The extra oxygen in the nitrous oxide, the whole point of nitrous setups as far as I know, not only goes unutilized, but probably leans out the mixture as well.

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On paper it shouldn't work as described but it does. Its ok for a small hit of nitrous but anything more then 20rwhp needs added fuel.
MPS offers what they refer to as "Fast FI" which they suggest you use for anything over 20-30rwhp. It works pretty good too.

oldgixxer said:

On paper it shouldn't work as described but it does. Its ok for a small hit of nitrous but anything more then 20rwhp needs added fuel.

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Very interesting. So do you know from experience that you can get a 20HP gain, by just injecting NO2 past the IAT, and letting the ECU sort out fueling on its own? No other modification? Also, what's the base motor which will make 20 additional HP? Something like a 1000 or a Busa, I assume?

I've never done it,but a few of my close riding buddy's have done it on their ZX10R's(no PCV tune), K5 1000's&Gen2 Busa's(PCV tunes). All were 25-30rwhp hits with proper PCV maps and some ignition timing removed. None had any issues besides the 2lb bottle running empty after a few top end pulls:biggrin. I have raced against them on my turbo bike while they were spraying me...Nobody that I know personally has done it to a 600 or 750,but I've seen them on the drag racing forums posting about it.

I had a bad experience with a wet nitrous kit some 25yrs ago on a '87 FZR-1000. Melted a piston&scored a cylinder with a 50hp hit,after that was repaired I bumped it to a 75hp hit and broke the output shaft on the trans which destroyed the bottom end.

Technology has come a long way since then but I would never use nitrous again. I like to stay in the throttle for long periods of time and I'd need an industrial-size bottle that stands 5' tall in order to do so:lol

Turbo for me now:thumbup

oldgixxer said:

I've never done it,but a few of my close riding buddy's have done it on their ZX10R's(no PCV tune), K5 1000's&Gen2 Busa's(PCV tunes). All were 25-30rwhp hits with proper PCV maps and some ignition timing removed.

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Wait, that's with a fueling remap, to burn all the available oxygen. The numbers seem reasonable as they're close to what you'd expect with 12% more oxygen plus the charge cooling effects. But what about setups where you just add the NO2 and let the IAT sensor do the "remapping" as described by the OP. Do you have any practical experience with those? I wouldn't expect such a setup to result in a 20HP boost.

I misspoke. The 10R's both had 30hp hits without dedicated tune. The Suzuki's had PCV tune. I will edit my post.

Great info. In all of the above. Crossing my fingers someone with 1st hand long term usage without fueling changes will step in and give their experience. If I can get +20 whp without mapping mods. That would be outstanding.

This is a great recipe for a "I blew my engine" thread.

Tractionless said:

Great info. In all of the above. Crossing my fingers someone with 1st hand long term usage without fueling changes will step in and give their experience. If I can get +20 whp without mapping mods. That would be outstanding.

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Buy a 1000... All the HP and reliability with none of the hassle. I have blown many a motor with spray, I know all about it firsthand. It isn't worth it.

oldgixxer said:

I misspoke. The 10R's both had 30hp hits without dedicated tune. The Suzuki's had PCV tune. I will edit my post.

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So that's about 15-20% increase in HP (depending on the model and other mods). Wouldn't have expected it. Thanks for the input oldgixxer. :cheers

Just_Nick said:

This is a great recipe for a "I blew my engine" thread.

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Anthony D said:

Buy a 1000... All the HP and reliability with none of the hassle. I have blown many a motor with spray, I know all about it firsthand. It isn't worth it.

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dpapavas said:

So that's about 15-20% increase in HP (depending on the model and other mods). Wouldn't have expected it. Thanks for the input oldgixxer. :cheers

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I wouldn't do it if it were my bike,Id pay the money for a PCV map to be safe. Any shortcuts with nitrous/turbo applications end up with disaster sooner or later.

Anthony D said:

Buy a 1000... All the HP and reliability with none of the hassle. I have blown many a motor with spray, I know all about it firsthand. It isn't worth it.

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Check my sig. Line. :fact

So if you already have a 1098, you're good. Go spray that.

Exactly... Fuck it, spray that Duc! I have never seen a Duc with NO2. Wonder how long it will take for the motor to shit itself!

Just_Nick said:

So if you already have a 1098, you're good. Go spray that.

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Did you just say above the thread is a recipe for "I blew my engine"? Make up your mind already, sheesh. :wacko You're doing zilch to add to the intellectual content of the thread. Plenty know, including myself who's experienced on other platforms of the potential consequences of nitrous. No one's 2 cent smarty remarks are needed herein.

I'm in (as previously stated) for hearing from individuals who've been using the kits (as advertised) and have not had to make fuel adjustments.

:wait