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funny you bring up 3rd grade tactics. my first post, i wrote one sentence and you responded with a novel - that began with trying to insult my vocabulary? And continued on with that tone, and by bringing up "moving the vectoring forces", I had to pipe up.

my comments about rider weight and moving CG, makes more of a difference when you're only having to deal with say, a 239lb TZ 250. Where rider weight, is more like 75% of the total combined weight. With these 350-400 lb diesels, you just need all the help you can get.


YMMV is Your Mileage Might Vary
 

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Everything in your first post, minus the LAST line directed at Gimp, reads as an attack to me?

As to your vocabulary, you referenced einstein. the only two things I said that where remotely "einstein"esque (is that a word :lol) where as I said. You seemed to attack me, my intelligence, and my post, I attacked back with nothing more than a one liner, and then factual based response.

You seem intent on saying I am wrong. Other than the ONE reference to your vocabulary, you have been on the attack, and I have been on the defense? In fact I have referenced my own weakness', but you on the other hand still seem to have an "im better than you" attitude because you "are an engineer" and race "proper race bikes" :rolleyes.

Times change. Two strokes are no longer the race bike of choice for the masses. You are nastalgic towards them, or just think they are better. That is fine. But that does NOT make you any better than the rest of us who choose not to ride them. And it does not make you a better rider because you can pilot one. That is not to say you are not a better rider than I. You very well may be, but you are not "superior" to me, and coming off like you are is very tiresome
 

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Discussion Starter #23
ah crap, i'm going to have to go pop some popcorn now before i start into this one..
 

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I'm sorry Joe, you are a genius and a scholar, since I got pwned as some myspace douchebag said, if that has anything to do with the price of dirt in Mongolia.

sorry that two whole lines of criticism in my original post, reads as an all-out assault on your entire person. Funny you say that you can take criticism, and welcome it, yet your posts read exactly the opposite. And you respond with a friggin hardcover book on the subject.

And I have a hard time believing how someone can really have a grasp on Bernoulli, physics, statics, and dynamics - yet only have knowledge of "some lower level calculus" (QUOTED). That is just not intuitive, because all those things build on the fundamentals and principles of calc. unless you say you have a grasp on stuff just because you have a library card.

Anyways, I don't need to fuel the internet turd trolls anymore, I actually have work to do. Don't have time to quote and edit a novel. Serioiusly Joe you need to find something better to do than write War And Peace on the internet just because I disagreed with you on how to navigate an off-camber turn. But, hey you have over 26,000 posts so you must have some free time on your hands. Man the internet is funny.

I love two strokes, yes, and it is sad that they arent the racebike for the masses. I am fully allowed to talk shit on the internet saying that 4-strokes choke, 2-strokes smoke, that valves are for toilets, that diesels are like driving a dump truck, etc. Welcome to it!

They really are heavy, sluggish to turn diesels once you've actually ridden a bike made explicitally for the purpose of racing.... YMMV I know most people have just always ridden 600's and/or 1000's, so they are used to dealing with 350 lbs+. I will continue to talk shit, especially when most of the time it's with guys I know personally -- so I'll just leave you out of it.
 

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if that pic sequence is what actually happened to gimp, then it looks as he lost the rear and not the front. If he lost the rear then it had nothing to do with the turn being off camber, rather the throttle happy hands of his. it happens.... move on :D
 

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if that pic sequence is what actually happened to gimp, then it looks as he lost the rear and not the front. If he lost the rear then it had nothing to do with the turn being off camber, rather the throttle happy hands of his. it happens.... move on :D
:scratchI wasn't aware that this thread was front or rear specific....

But good assesment of what I did anyway.:lol Too much gas and lost the rear yes.... but the off camber of the corner didn't help, so I would say YES it did contribute to my falling.
 

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I'm sorry Joe, you are a genius and a scholar, since I got pwned as some myspace douchebag said, if that has anything to do with the price of dirt in Mongolia.
I didnt get the pwned thing either :lol
sorry that two whole lines of criticism in my original post, reads as an all-out assault on your entire person. Funny you say that you can take criticism, and welcome it, yet your posts read exactly the opposite. And you respond with a friggin hardcover book on the subject.
It is called a DEBATE. YOU are taking it as an argument. I am simply stating that "getting lower" is not always right, thus you saying I am "wrong" is incorrect. You seem to refuse to believe that. Whatever.
And I have a hard time believing how someone can really have a grasp on Bernoulli, physics, statics, and dynamics - yet only have knowledge of "some lower level calculus" (QUOTED). That is just not intuitive, because all those things build on the fundamentals and principles of calc. unless you say you have a grasp on stuff just because you have a library card.
And I said, probably not to the degree you understand such topics. And I said bernoullis principle....... as in how an air foil works. Physics, statics, dynamics. no degree here, but I do understand physics as it relates to potential energy, kinetic energy, conservation of energy, fluid dynamics, force vectoring...... and quite a few other topics. Again, not a degree, but a higher understanding than your average american.

Anyways, I don't need to fuel the internet turd trolls anymore, I actually have work to do. Don't have time to quote and edit a novel. Serioiusly Joe you need to find something better to do than write War And Peace on the internet just because I disagreed with you on how to navigate an off-camber turn. But, hey you have over 26,000 posts so you must have some free time on your hands. Man the internet is funny.
I have been a member here since 2003, and I spend 4 nights a week in a hotel room. I dont party on the road, and other than sit here, it gets expensive. So I watch TV and play on the internet, if you really must know how I have so many posts. I also spend ALOT of time helping others here who dont know quite as much about motorcycles and the GSXR as I do.
I love two strokes, yes, and it is sad that they arent the racebike for the masses. I am fully allowed to talk shit on the internet saying that 4-strokes choke, 2-strokes smoke, that valves are for toilets, that diesels are like driving a dump truck, etc. Welcome to it!

They really are heavy, sluggish to turn diesels once you've actually ridden a bike made explicitally for the purpose of racing.... YMMV I know most people have just always ridden 600's and/or 1000's, so they are used to dealing with 350 lbs+. I will continue to talk shit, especially when most of the time it's with guys I know personally -- so I'll just leave you out of it.
I was quoted once (on dirt) that I would NEVER ride a thumper. Technology advanced, and I ate my words.
You are entitled to your opinion. I agree. And cant argue with you one way or another on that opinion as I dont have first hand knowledge of GP machines. I would love to give one a try, and more than likely will, as I plan on getting one for Dilly to ride. But for now I will stick with what have :cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #32
na, that isn't me wecking - and i get spanked with i'm i'm trying to keep up with that dude who wrecks in that photo, even if he's an old man ;)

besides that - gees guys - i just meant to say I hate the off camber, but if i can get over the part i hate/fear it'll help me with the entire track to keep my speed by knowing HOW to take it which would allow me to have confidence.
 

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For a moment there I thought Steve Hendricks was back here pretending to be Moto Joe or something!:p

Seriously the ADMIN that banned Steve needs to get his shorts out of the big wad they are in and un ban Steve now. :rolleyes
 

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na, that isn't me wecking - and i get spanked with i'm i'm trying to keep up with that dude who wrecks in that photo, even if he's an old man ;)
Naaa never under estimate yourself!;) I've never been to Cresson in this direction so I'd bet good money you are faster than me this go round. Besides I still have a hand thats only at 60% or so at best..... I'll be lucky to just cruise around waving at the cornerworkers.:lol

If I finish better than 4th in F40 I will probably pass out in amazement!:lol
 

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back to the subject at hand....I don't think of off-camber turns as any different than other turns. I just gauge my speed and throttle control based on my lean angle.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
yes, but you can get yourself into trouble a lot quicker if you don't know how to be controlled and smoothed. What is a comfortable lvl of lean on a corner, now is NO where near the same on an off camber where you look into the corner and know where you'd like to exit, however when you lean her she's going wide since your dragging everything.
 

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Stop thinking too much and just ride the freakin bike, listen to what it is telling you.
No doubt. This only works if you have suspension that is not mute though :lol. After I got my penske re-worked and re-sprung, the bike spoke loud and clear, and teligraphed every wiggle and slide WAYyyyyyy before it ever happened
 

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I found that at Tally, that if I got too low that the lateral forces it created caused me to drift both wheels in teh carousel turn, which is an increasing radius , flat elevation, off camber turn. Getting too low moved the lateral force vector so low that the bike drifted more than if I held my lean angle and actually moved my head upwards. I actually used this to STOP the slide when it started to happen. I simply would raise my head and torso a few degrees and it would hook back up. Granted it is BARELY off camber. When actually on track it looks like the track just peaks in the middle, with the inside half being positive, and the outside half being negative (as in the two lanes if it were a "street) But when walking it, you see that the inside is off camber by a couple degrees, and the outside is even more so.

so although gettign lower sounds logically right, in my case it would have made it worse. I think a blanket question like this cant be answered really. It will ahve to be answered based on the specific corner by someone with experience negotiating it IMO.

This pic is in that corner.

Uh, getting off the bike more allows the bike to be more upright. Not getting the bike to be leaned over more...

That turn is tricky for sure.

However, not sure what "drift" means in terms of bike speak... Are you saying it doesn't finish the turn? If that's the case, that's a supension/chasis set-up issue and needs to be remedied per track. Adjustments aren't made once a year and then considered goo to go...

Get rid of those damn stock foot pegs, also...
 

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Mr Keith Code knew a thing or two Id say :eek
Keith Code is sometimes wrong, as well. There isn't any particular "right" way to ride a motorcycle when it comes to riding style/position.

You can look at the top 5 MotoGP riders and see a difference in riding style. Hell, take two teamates on the same bike and you have different styles.

Style is style. Sure, sometimes it can be wrong for the conditions or even the bike you ride and thus, a change is needed. EBoz's style is certainly unique, but it has changed from teh Ducati to teh Yamaha, but is fairly similar.

Ride the way that makes you comfortable and you'll be fine. Just realize that if you think your style is similar to someone else and they do just fine, maybe that style isn't right for you. Or, if you have a certain style, maybe your set-up is wrong for that style and correct for the "other" guy.

Set-up is key and no matter what the style, if set-up is wrong, style doesn't mean shit.
 
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