[NeatRiver]

Hey guys - I am new to the forum so Hello , I can really use some help. I used to ride 100cc street bikes 25 years ago & now just got back into ridding about a month ago, bought a Ninja 400, absolutely loved it but after 2 weeks realized I needed a bigger bike, almost bought N650 till I went to a dealer & sat on N650 & hated it. You sit semi low/sporty on N400 but too straight up on N650, I am 5'9" 185lbs, Then I sat on 2020 GSXR 600, CBR600RR & R6, didnt test ride any of em - Out of these 3 I liked the way I sat on gsxr, it's like I sat into the bike, cbr600rr's tank was a bit fat or something, just didnt feel right, R6 was a bit high but do able, I actually liked the older gen R6 2016 model better than the 2017, & I understand all of this might change once I ride any of these. I will be ridding 80% on street n 20% on freeway, I do like to ride hard, do corners & sort of go through the busy traffic, At the moment I think my ideal bike will be where I sat a bit more aggressive/sporty but not a lot than N400 & the bike had a lot more power than N400 at all levels. I am open to all suggestions, I am looking for a used bike between 2016 to 2019 model coz new will be too expensive & I am not much of a handy guy so dont wanna buy too old model where I will be needing to fix it all the time & I have feelings after ridding it for a year or so I probably will wanna try something different. One more question which year gsxr 600 got its last upgrade, Once again really appreciate your help, BTW I am in Los Angeles.

Thanks.

 

[spike52]

Going from Ninja 400 to a R bike after only two weeks? You’re not gonna wanna hear most answers from the guys like me who have been riding for 35 years. But here it goes...
Stay on the 400 for awhile, ride the shit out of it. Learn braking, cornering and get more street miles under your belt. If possible get some track time if you can. Then move up to an R bike...

 

[Ironhead401]

You want a bigger bike. I guarantee you don't need one. Good luck either way, just gear up fully.

 

[Nightbat®]

Going from Ninja 400 to a R bike after only two weeks? You’re not gonna wanna hear most answers from the guys like me who have been riding for 35 years. But here it goes...
Stay on the 400 for awhile, ride the shit out of it. Learn braking, cornering and get more street miles under your belt. If possible get some track time if you can. Then move up to an R bike...

If I hear people talking about newbies on a modern sportsbike, it's a hell of a smarter choice today than when I bought my '98 750 in 2004 with the ink on my licence still wet
ABS, TC, Powermodes, things that weren't present when I was enjoying the on/off throttle response of the bane that was the SRAD's 1st gen FI
Not mentioning the 15 year of tech advance tires have made, so jerky FI and BT-013s in icecold and wet conditions? Fun times!!

 

[le skid]

If I hear people talking about newbies on a modern sportsbike, it's a hell of a smarter choice today than when I bought my '98 750 in 2004 with the ink on my licence still wet
ABS, TC, Powermodes, things that weren't present when I was enjoying the on/off throttle response of the bane that was the SRAD's 1st gen FI
Not mentioning the 15 year of tech advance tires have made, so jerky FI and BT-013s in icecold and wet conditions? Fun times!!

I strongly disagree for all those reasons.

If new riders are going to start learning on bikes with TC, ABS, wheelie control etc..... they're not learning how to ride. You take someone who learned on a bike like that and stick on any normal bike and they'll crash in short order because they're used to all those nannies letting him / her get away with being ham-fisted, grabbing big handfuls of brakes, mindlessly trying to wheelie etc.... and all sorts of bad habits that nannies will compensate for.

I loved sliding around the track on my K6 1000. The closest thing to a rider assist is the slipper.

New guy: I promise you that you're not making full use out of that Ninja and that you'll be a BETTER rider if you stay on it for at least a couple of seasons. If you start doing track days, you will lap faster on the 400 than you will on a bigger bike. It's fact. If you can't make full use out of a 400, you'll be making even less use out of a 600 and will be one of those guys who didn't learn right. Plus your odds of f***ing yourself up rise exponentially.

 

[Nightbat®]

You take someone who learned on a bike like that and stick on any normal bike and they'll crash in short order

Apart from the fact that when we were 'young' a 600cc sportsbike was seen as a beginners bike
we are talking about the other way round from what you state
This isn't someone hopping from a new rubber-tile-sportbike onto an old-school widowmaker
This is someone merely stepping up to one such especially-designed-for-faint-of-heart-or-those-with-an-overprotective-spouse-sportsbike


I've been around long enough to know when someone sets his/her mind to it (and this also from own experience) "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away"
And all I can 'offer' to any rider with such a desire is: "Just take it easy"
and with today's rider AIDS on all these modern bikes, one can take it easy while taking it easy
[

"Yo Dawg,..."]


On a side note: where I'm from, there is no way you're gonna be learning the old fashioned "manly" way getting your licence
since all riding school's bikes in the very least come with ABS

 

[Ironhead401]

If I hear people talking about newbies on a modern sportsbike, it's a hell of a smarter choice today than when I bought my '98 750 in 2004 with the ink on my licence still wet
ABS, TC, Powermodes, things that weren't present when I was enjoying the on/off throttle response of the bane that was the SRAD's 1st gen FI
Not mentioning the 15 year of tech advance tires have made, so jerky FI and BT-013s in icecold and wet conditions? Fun times!!

Apart from the fact that when we were 'young' a 600cc sportsbike was seen as a beginners bike
we are talking about the other way round from what you state
This isn't someone hopping from a new rubber-tile-sportbike onto an old-school widowmaker
This is someone merely stepping up to one such especially-designed-for-faint-of-heart-or-those-with-an-overprotective-spouse-sportsbike


I've been around long enough to know when someone sets his/her mind to it (and this also from own experience) "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away"
And all I can 'offer' to any rider with such a desire is: "Just take it easy"
and with today's rider AIDS on all these modern bikes, one can take it easy while taking it easy
[

"Yo Dawg,..."]


On a side note: where I'm from, there is no way you're gonna be learning the old fashioned "manly" way getting your licence
since all riding school's bikes in the very least come with ABS

I never believed in take it easy or respect the bike. It comes down to rider skill, not taking it easy. Taking it easy isn't going to save you if you don't have the skill and ability to handle different situations that has nothing to do with how you're operating the bike. Guy rode 25 years ago on not much more than a moped and now a month on a ninja 300. Hardly enough seat time and skills acquired to jump to a race bike with lights.

Also this site has never considered a 600cc R bike as a "beginner" sports bike. It's not. Regardless of modern amenities. We on this site will always err on the side of caution when it comes to recommending sport bikes since we don't know the users skill level. But based on his description of his time spent on a bike, a 600cc R bike is a huge and potentially dangerous step up.

 

[craigfer63]

Apart from the fact that when we were 'young' a 600cc sportsbike was seen as a beginners bike
we are talking about the other way round from what you state
This isn't someone hopping from a new rubber-tile-sportbike onto an old-school widowmaker
This is someone merely stepping up to one such especially-designed-for-faint-of-heart-or-those-with-an-overprotective-spouse-sportsbike


I've been around long enough to know when someone sets his/her mind to it (and this also from own experience) "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away"
And all I can 'offer' to any rider with such a desire is: "Just take it easy"
and with today's rider AIDS on all these modern bikes, one can take it easy while taking it easy
[

"Yo Dawg,..."]


On a side note: where I'm from, there is no way you're gonna be learning the old fashioned "manly" way getting your licence
since all riding school's bikes in the very least come with ABS
[/QUOTE

Hey guys - I am new to the forum so Hello , I can really use some help. I used to ride 100cc street bikes 25 years ago & now just got back into ridding about a month ago, bought a Ninja 400, absolutely loved it but after 2 weeks realized I needed a bigger bike, almost bought N650 till I went to a dealer & sat on N650 & hated it. You sit semi low/sporty on N400 but too straight up on N650, I am 5'9" 185lbs, Then I sat on 2020 GSXR 600, CBR600RR & R6, didnt test ride any of em - Out of these 3 I liked the way I sat on gsxr, it's like I sat into the bike, cbr600rr's tank was a bit fat or something, just didnt feel right, R6 was a bit high but do able, I actually liked the older gen R6 2016 model better than the 2017, & I understand all of this might change once I ride any of these. I will be ridding 80% on street n 20% on freeway, I do like to ride hard, do corners & sort of go through the busy traffic, At the moment I think my ideal bike will be where I sat a bit more aggressive/sporty but not a lot than N400 & the bike had a lot more power than N400 at all levels. I am open to all suggestions, I am looking for a used bike between 2016 to 2019 model coz new will be too expensive & I am not much of a handy guy so dont wanna buy too old model where I will be needing to fix it all the time & I have feelings after ridding it for a year or so I probably will wanna try something different. One more question which year gsxr 600 got its last upgrade, Once again really appreciate your help, BTW I am in Los Angeles.

Thanks.

Just Find A 1000 And Be Done With It . Just like a 600 except on the back wheel only. 🤣

 

[Nightbat®]

I never believed in take it easy or respect the bike. It comes down to rider skill, not taking it easy. Taking it easy isn't going to save you if you don't have the skill and ability to handle different situations that has nothing to do with how you're operating the bike. Guy rode 25 years ago on not much more than a moped and now a month on a ninja 300. Hardly enough seat time and skills acquired to jump to a race bike with lights.

Also this site has never considered a 600cc R bike as a "beginner" sports bike. It's not. Regardless of modern amenities. We on this site will always err on the side of caution when it comes to recommending sport bikes since we don't know the users skill level. But based on his description of his time spent on a bike, a 600cc R bike is a huge and potentially dangerous step up.

If I were to err on the side of caution, I would tell everyone to sell their bike and use public transport
Any bike is potentially dangerous
You can ride a 600-1350 like a 300cc bike, has nothing to do with 'actual skill', but mostly the mindset of the rider

Anyway, do I think it's 'smart'? No, but if one has his sights set on 600cc+, I think it's 'smarter' to buy a new bike than an old one
when it comes to stubbornness of people to 'definitely/absolutely must have this sportbike', there is no denying the 'forgiving' character(/crutches) of the newer gen bikes, is a lot better to jump on as a relative boob, than the similar models from 15+ years ago

 

[le skid]

On a side note: where I'm from, there is no way you're gonna be learning the old fashioned "manly" way getting your licence
since all riding school's bikes in the very least come with ABS

Ugh

Most rider's license training bikes I've seen are pretty basic (cheap to fix) since ABS will never come into play until you're on the track. Or maybe if you're so ham-fisted on the brakes that you need ABS for normal street or track riding. If ABS kicks in, it's saving you from your own lack of skill...... until you're riding at an advanced level.

 

[Nightbat®]

Ugh

Most rider's license training bikes I've seen are pretty basic (cheap to fix) since ABS will never come into play until you're on the track. Or maybe if you're so ham-fisted on the brakes that you need ABS for normal street or track riding. If ABS kicks in, it's saving you from your own lack of skill...... until you're riding at an advanced level.

Maybe in Canada, but not here in the Netherlands
And some students ARE ham-fisted (most are too gentile and/or scared in general)
Seen quite a few hit the pavement practicing the emergency brake maneuver when taking my lessons back in '04
So the riding schools prefer to have bikes with ABS, so that they don't need and ambulance for the student and a trailer to transport the trashed bike afterwards

These are all the tests we learn in NL (Don't need to do them all on an exam but there are certain clusters that hold some which can be asked of you when taking the test)
"Figure 8" and "Half turn L/R"
"Leaving a parking space L/R"
"Walking with the bike" (Yes really and if you fail this test, you fail the exam since this is the only test in cluster 1) and back when I had to do it, you also HAD to put the bike on the center stand
"Slow Ride"
"Precision brake test", "Emergency brake test", "Brake test" (inbetween kind of maneuver for precision and emergency brake) and "Stop and go" (brake with slalom)
"Slow Slalom" and "Fast Slalom"
"Swerve"


This site seems to have a video on all:

Motor Voertuigbeheersing (AVB examen oefeningen) - Verkeersschool H. de Bos Lemmer, Emmeloord, Heerenveen

Goed voorbereid op weg naar het motorrijbewijs? Bekijk op deze pagina d.m.v. video's hoe het AVB examen voor de motor in z'n werk gaat.

www.hdebos.nl

 

[Ironhead401]

If I were to err on the side of caution, I would tell everyone to sell their bike and use public transport
Any bike is potentially dangerous
You can ride a 600-1350 like a 300cc bike, has nothing to do with 'actual skill', but mostly the mindset of the rider

Anyway, do I think it's 'smart'? No, but if one has his sights set on 600cc+, I think it's 'smarter' to buy a new bike than an old one
when it comes to stubbornness of people to 'definitely/absolutely must have this sportbike', there is no denying the 'forgiving' character(/crutches) of the newer gen bikes, is a lot better to jump on as a relative boob, than the similar models from 15+ years ago

Nothing to do with skill and all mind set? Oh brother. I'm out of the discussion.

Just know while you're on this site 600cc race bikes are not for inexperienced riders. Period.

 

[le skid]

If you're not 100% full of shit and the Netherlands is training new riders to rely on technology, remind me to never ride in the netherlands.

Learning to control and modulate the throttle, clutch and brakes is not 'manly', it's called 'operating a motorcycle'. Why you would choose to CONTINUE to argue this is a mystery to me but it does say something about you. By your logic, new riders should just wait until Tesla introduces the self-driving motorcycle.

 

[Nightbat®]

If you're not 100% full of shit and the Netherlands is training new riders to rely on technology, remind me to never ride in the netherlands.

Learning to control and modulate the throttle, clutch and brakes is not 'manly', it's called 'operating a motorcycle'. Why you would choose to CONTINUE to argue this is a mystery to me but it does say something about you. By your logic, new riders should just wait until Tesla introduces the self-driving motorcycle.

Currently, riding schools use bikes with ABS only (TC, QC, Blippers, etc, aren't standard on most bikes anyway)
Not saying the schools aren't glad they suffer less crashes
But this also has more to do with all bikes being sold with ABS mandated by EU law since 2016
So it's not so much that riding schools are training new riders to rely on this tech, it's just that the tech is already implemented

I never said I agree with these rider aids, I said this is the status quo
The idea that people learn to ride on bikes with ABS wouldn't be so odd, ...if not that they jump on one without ABS after getting their licence
(unless they opt for a newer bike, but past years number of licences reflected to sales figures of new bikes don't paint a positive picture)

As for your comment not wanting to ride in the Netherlands
In 2018 51 bikers got killed in British Columbia alone, BC has a population of 5 million over an area of almost 1 million square Km's
BC has roughly 730.000 registered motorcycles (including mopeds)
In 2018 53 bikers got killed in the whole of the Netherlands, NL has a population of 17 million over an area of a little more that 45000 square Km's
NL has about 650.000 registered motorcycles (only)
-I'll let you do the risk calculation

 

[le skid]

Currently, riding schools use bikes with ABS only (TC, QC, Blippers, etc, aren't standard on most bikes anyway)
Not saying the schools aren't glad they suffer less crashes
But this also has more to do with all bikes being sold with ABS mandated by EU law since 2016
So it's not so much that riding schools are training new riders to rely on this tech, it's just that the tech is already implemented

I never said I agree with these rider aids, I said this is the status quo
The idea that people learn to ride on bikes with ABS wouldn't be so odd, ...if not that they jump on one without ABS after getting their licence
(unless they opt for a newer bike, but past years number of licences reflected to sales figures of new bikes don't paint a positive picture)

As for your comment not wanting to ride in the Netherlands
In 2018 51 bikers got killed in British Columbia alone, BC has a population of 5 million over an area of almost 1 million square Km's
BC has roughly 730.000 registered motorcycles (including mopeds)
In 2018 53 bikers got killed in the whole of the Netherlands, NL has a population of 17 million over an area of a little more that 45000 square Km's
NL has about 650.000 registered motorcycles (only)
-I'll let you do the risk calculation

Ah, my bad then. Here in Canada, most riding schools will find clean 80s bikes. '82-83 CM450s are quite common, since I guess lots of people bought them back in the day and never rode them. Because they're CM450s.

About the stats.... am I misreading something? You had two more fatalities than BC, with 80,000 less bikes. That equals more deaths per registered bike. Without fact-checking those stats and by just doing the math, .00815% fatalities per bike in the NL VS .00699% here.

I don't understand how that statistic helps your argument?

 

[Nightbat®]

Just know while you're on this site 600cc race bikes are not for inexperienced riders. Period.

No, the general consensus is that they are not beginner's bikes
Which, if you bothered to read my last reply to you, is something I do not disagree with

If you would be so kind to point out where it's stated in the Site/Forum rules that 600cc+ race bikes are not beginner's bikes

Site Rules

Please read our rules before posting to ensure the best possible experience for all members! There are areas of the site you will not be able to gain access to until you've made 5 posts that our team deems worthy (meaning you didn't just make 5 posts of "hi how are you". Additionally, you will...

www.gixxer.com

Forum Rules...READ BEFORE YOU POST!

Please read our rules before posting to ensure the best possible experience for all members! There are areas of the site you will not be able to gain access to until you've made 5 posts that our team deems worthy (meaning you didn't just make 5 posts of "hi how are you". Additionally, you will...

www.gixxer.com

Since it's not there, I ask for you to retract your statement that by being on this site, I'm mandated to comply with your assessment
and you accept that opinions are allowed to vary/deviate on that subject

And since my opinion is that IF someone is set on jumping on a 600cc+ racebike while being a novice rider, then modern bikes are at least not as dangerous as older generations
We're not even arguing the same point
(I'm not arguing sport bikes are NOT dangerous, Hell, I don't think any bike is "not dangerous" and if safety is a mandated concern on this site, my opinion would be to do anything BUT tell them to start riding a motorcycle)

Now, if your problem is that I'm not arguing against people jumping on sportsbikes (which is NOT against the forum rules)
Sorry, I'm not their mommy, they can vote, they can drink, they can get convicted, they can buy whatever bike they want, they can knock themselves out
I'm not a disclaimer, I'm not a warning label, just a poster with opinions and experiences
You're free to disagree, you're free to prove me wrong
But instead you're trying to impose some self-invented rule to shut down the conversation

 

[spike52]

No, the general consensus is that they are not beginner's bikes
Which, if you bothered to read my last reply to you, is something I do not disagree with

If you would be so kind to point out where it's stated in the Site/Forum rules that 600cc+ race bikes are not beginner's bikes

Site Rules

Please read our rules before posting to ensure the best possible experience for all members! There are areas of the site you will not be able to gain access to until you've made 5 posts that our team deems worthy (meaning you didn't just make 5 posts of "hi how are you". Additionally, you will...

www.gixxer.com

Forum Rules...READ BEFORE YOU POST!

Please read our rules before posting to ensure the best possible experience for all members! There are areas of the site you will not be able to gain access to until you've made 5 posts that our team deems worthy (meaning you didn't just make 5 posts of "hi how are you". Additionally, you will...

www.gixxer.com

Since it's not there, I ask for you to retract your statement that by being on this site, I'm mandated to comply with your assessment
and you accept that opinions are allowed to vary/deviate on that subject

And since my opinion is that IF someone is set on jumping on a 600cc+ racebike while being a novice rider, then modern bikes are at least not as dangerous as older generations
We're not even arguing the same point
(I'm not arguing sport bikes are NOT dangerous, Hell, I don't think any bike is "not dangerous" and if safety is a mandated concern on this site, my opinion would be to do anything BUT tell them to start riding a motorcycle)

Now, if your problem is that I'm not arguing against people jumping on sportsbikes (which is NOT against the forum rules)
Sorry, I'm not their mommy, they can vote, they can drink, they can get convicted, they can buy whatever bike they want, they can knock themselves out
I'm not a disclaimer, I'm not a warning label, just a poster with opinions and experiences
You're free to disagree, you're free to prove me wrong
But instead you're trying to impose some self-invented rule to shut down the conversation

He never said it was in the site rules, but more of a general opinion of the site members. Many of us have been riding for 30+ years and have seen riders come on here, ask about getting an “R”, and then go against our suggestions. And what’s happened is that person doesn’t heed our advice and their next post is: “I wrecked my new bike..”

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and of course you are free to post yours...

 

[Nightbat®]

He never said it was in the site rules, but more of a general opinion of the site members. Many of us have been riding for 30+ years and have seen riders come on here, ask about getting an “R”, and then go against our suggestions. And what’s happened is that person doesn’t heed our advice and their next post is: “I wrecked my new bike..”

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and of course you are free to post yours...

He presented me that line as if it is a mandate on this site, it was formulated as an order to obey
Since this did not come from a regular user, but a moderator, I cannot simply assume that this is just a poorly formulated opinion
I can, however, address it as uncalled for, regardless of the one posting it, since my earlier comments are not a violation of site rules



And what you say is a tale as old as time, these people come here are already set on getting those bikes, they don't want to hear about not getting one
You can have all 214000 Gixxer members try to talk sense into them, 2 weeks later they still all will be polishing off the "I told you so!"

I'm not the kind of guy to go "Do as I say! Don't do as I do!", the older I get, the more I try to be less of a hypocrite

 

[le skid]

Jesus - STOP

Why are you pissing and moaning at forum staff? Say whatever you want out here. We all do... unless your goal is to type mountains of text complaining about the volunteers who spend their time pro-bono to make sure it's a pleasant environment for all. If you're not enjoying your stay, you're perfectly entitled to exercise your right to not be our guest.

 

[spike52]

Jesus - STOP

Why are you pissing and moaning at forum staff? Say whatever you want out here. We all do... unless your goal is to type mountains of text complaining about the volunteers who spend their time pro-bono to make sure it's a pleasant environment for all. If you're not enjoying your stay, you're perfectly entitled to exercise your right to not be our guest.

I was going to say the same thing. I pointed out that nobody said it was a “site rule” and he still rambled on.
Maybe he’s the type that loves to hear himself talk.