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Discussion Starter #1
Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Ok, before someone tells me to search on the topic, I spent the last four hours reading every message that pertains to this and I am more confused than ever. I think understand that putting a 17" wheel on the back of my '86 750 is a straight swap as long as I keep my stock brake rotor. I assume that means the rotor will bolt up to the newer wheel? I would also reason from my reading that I can use the stock '86 spacers (I am pretty much positive the cush drive is different so I'll have to get that with the wheel) or should I get all that stuff from the donor bike? Now on to the front, I hope to swap forks and all to make it easier but.....money is, as always an object. I am looking at a set of rims off a '89-'90 1100, can I bolt my '86 front rotors to these rims? I understand I make have to make up some spacers and what not but that's not a problem. I hate to just sit here and ask questions but I don't want to grab these rims up and find out I'm going to have to lay out five times what I paid for the rims to make the whole package work.

Thanks.

John

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: John250R ]</p>
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Here's a site from a reliable source...I used his data for my conversion and the numbers are correct.


Wheel data site

That might clear things up for you with regard to rotor swapping and axles.
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Here's some stuff on ebay...
front wheel

rear wheel

These are at a pretty good price but there have been better wheels at better prices. Its going to be a long winter...you could get lucky.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Thanks Simon. Actually those are the rims I had my on and the web-site you sent was helpful but I already had looked at it, found a link during my "wheelathon" last night. I guess the only way to find out is to just dive in and be prepared for the worst even though the worst in this case is still not too bad. Thanks again, without this site and the great bunch of guys on it I'd be living with those damn 18's forever.

John
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Ya know, I'm in the same spot, I want to change things, get the better tires, and better brakes! I have cooked the brakes on my 85 750 more times than I want to remember. Long twisty fast down hill, and the last couple of corners were to the bar on the first pull, major pucker time


Here in Japan it is really hard and expensive to get these parts. A lot has to do with the fact that even 10 years ago there were not a huge number of bikes over 400 cc on the road. parts are not around.

Well got to go.

Where can I post my website about my old nail?

it is http://www.masutoh.com/gsxr/gsxr.htm
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

The 86-87 front rotors will not work on later model wheels. use the rotors that come with the wheels. you may have to notch the inside of your calipers because of the larger diameter of the later rotor. the rotors that came with my wheels had one that was bent so I used a set of katana rotors that I had lying around didnt need to notch the calipers but had to shim them inward because they didnt come out from the wheel as far as original. its a good Idea to check the clearance any way, some bikes from the factory need shimming to reduce brake drag,to much drag and your brakes and fluid will heat up unneccessarily.With the wheel off the ground, spin it.it should rotate at least two full turns minimum.if not check the clearance and yor bearings.I got this hint from WWW.1888fastlap.com in their tech section. they also have a nice printable gearing chart.changing to 17" wheels also changes your gearing.
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Masu:
Ya know, I'm in the same spot, I want to change things, get the better tires, and better brakes!
Here in Japan it is really hard and expensive to get these parts. A lot has to do with the fact that even 10 years ago there were not a huge number of bikes over 400 cc on the road. parts are not around.

Well got to go.

Where can I post my website about my old nail?

it is http://www.masutoh.com/gsxr/gsxr.htm
<hr></blockquote>


Hey Stuart, Glad to see you found us after the gsxr email list died. I never did hear back from about those rearsets. I guess they can't get them shipped here. If you need help here state-side, let me know if I can help. I'll do what I can.

Have a good holiday.
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

you can use the older rotors with a bit of machining, have the inside whole dia machined larger so it just slides over the hub of the wheel this means the disc is concentric with the wheel then mark and drill the new bolt holes inbetween the existing pattern there is room. This will get you by if you need to. doug
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Thanks Doug, my buddy works at a well equipped machine shop so once I get the axle bearings sorted out I will bring the assembly down to him and set it up as you said. Thanks again, you answered one of the bigger concerns I had.

John
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

OK, here'e the deal on this swap. I've done it over the years for at least 20 customers, so I konw the routine by heart.

Rear Wheel: Easy. Use the wheel, inner spacer, spacer between sprocket carrier and wheel, and sprocket carrier from late model wheel. The other spacers can be from either set of wheels. They are slightly different, but the swingarm spreads enough that either set, or a combination of the two, will work.

Rear rotor: The early rotor is a different size from the late rotor, but the bolt pattern is the same. Use either the early rotor and early caliper hanger, or the late rotor and the late caliper hanger. You can't mix the two. The caliper itself is identical, except for the paint.

Front wheel: Late models have 20mm axle, while earlies have either 15 or 17 mm, depending on year. Performance machine makes a nice set of CNC bearing reducers that work perfectly. Buy them, trust me! I have a lathe, and I still buy them. They are a perfect fit, and not worth the hassle. Plus, they have a neat little lip on them that just keeps them from falling through the bearing. It is a direct bolt-on once you have these reducers, using the original early-model spacer on the right. On the left side, you must have the speedo drive that belongs with the late-model wheel, the drives are different. You also need the cable that goes with the speedo drive. The internal gearing is different, to compensate for the different size front wheels. Put it all on, screw it into your original speedo, and it is already calibrated for your new wheel. You also need to either get another set of reducers from PM and cut one short to reduce the drive hub ID, or you can install the left side reducer from inside the wheel. This leaves about .150-200" outside the bearing, which the drive can ride on and be centered.

Rotors: Early rotors will not fit the late-model wheels. Different bolt patterns, different registers. They can be machined to fit, but it is not worth the work in my opinion, you can find a used set of rotors reasonably. Just use the late rotors on the late wheels.

Front calipers: If you have an early 1100 (86-88), then they have the same diameter rotors as the late 750s and 1100. All you have to do is grind some of the inside bleeder nipple off, or remove the nipple, when removing or installing the calipers. They won't fit between the wheel and rotor if you don't. Other than that, the only other problem is that the distance between the rotor centerlines is greater on the late wheels, so the rotors nearly hit, or hit (depending on how true your rotors are) the outside half of the caliper slightly. Fix this by either grinding away a little material from the caliper body (not preferred), or machine (not grind, you can't be precise enough) a small amount of material off of the outside of the mounting ears on the calipers. This moves the calipers slightly outward. I have left this step ot before, but the rotors are EXTREMELY close to the calipers. You need to check this carefully.

If you have an early 750, the rotors are smaller, so the calipers hit badly on the outside of the larger late-model rotors. You could grind away a bunch of the caliper body, but I wouldn't. It weakens the caliper and gets the pads off-center of the rotor Instead, just get a set of early 1100 calipers, and problem solved. They are actually the identical caliper, its just machined with the mounting ear hole in a different location.
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Man, that was a long post!! It isn't as bad as the length of that post makes it seem.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

WOW!! That was a thorough answer. Thaks for taking the time to fill me in so specifically. I will call the guy I am getting the wheels and sprocket hub from and tell him to throw the spacers and speedo drive/cable in the box too. I think I am going to give a shot at using my old front rotors though, at least for now. Does performance machine have a web site or a number I can call to order those spacers you are talking about??

Thanks.

John
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Performance Machine
La Palma CA
(714) 523-3000
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

I actually found their site and called them earlier but the guy on the phone said the don't make anything like that. I hate to be a pain is the ass but is there someone there who I should talk to in particular?

Thanks.

John
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

flyinphil is spot on.

I did the swap on my 86 1100.

Rear: 93 1100 wheel, cush drive, sprocket, bearing, and 2mm thick washer.

Front: 93 wheel, and bearings. 94 Blue USD forks, tripple clamps, and 6 piston calipers, 88 750 rotors.

I coud have done the spacer route, but just went whole hog for the front end. the only mods were a bit of grinding of the stock steering stops.
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Getting someone on the phone at PM is easy. Getting someone who has a clue what they are talking about is another thing altogether. They make them, but I don't know if they are in the catalog. I will look tomorrow if I think about it for the part number. If you call them back, tell them that they install these spacers in every wheel that they make for the 15mm and 17mm axle wheels. They just need to go to the build sheet for the 86 750 chicane front wheel, and the spacers will be there. That or have them go ask someone in the shop, the people that answer the phones probably can't operate a screwdriver.
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by karl_1052:
I did the swap on my 86 1100.

Rear: 93 1100 wheel, cush drive, sprocket, bearing, and 2mm thick washer.

Front: 93 wheel, and bearings. 94 Blue USD forks, tripple clamps, and 6 piston calipers, 88 750 rotors.

I coud have done the spacer route, but just went whole hog for the front end. the only mods were a bit of grinding of the stock steering stops.
<hr></blockquote>

This is essentially the modification I did. Except I got a pair of new EBC rotors for a $100. The rear rotor is from a '98 gixxer wheel. I'll be putting the newer rear caliper on this winter.


[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Simon Orttan ]</p>
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

Simon, where can I get get new EBC rotors for $100?

FlyinPhill, I hope you find those part numbers. This is just what I've been looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

I got a complete answer from the people at Performance Machine today, they used to use those spacers but no longer use them so they no longer make them. I guess it is time for a trip to the machine shop for me unless somebody has another idea. Maybe I'll just hold off until a fork setup falls in my lap at the right price, I've got all winter to find some.

John

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: John250R ]</p>
 

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Re: Its been asked before but : 17" Wheel Swap on \'86

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ClassicGSXR:
Simon, where can I get get new EBC rotors for $100?

<hr></blockquote>

I got 'em from a guy on yahoo auctions
 
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