How to buy a Motorcycle
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This is such vital info! I hope you don't mind if I attatch this other aspect of The Big Buy!
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Educated buyers get better deals! Good info. Want more?
http://www.Friction-Point.com/educatedbuyer.php
http://www.Friction-Point.com/educatedbuyer.php
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47 Posts
Hey guys, I'm new to this site and a new rider. I've been riding dirtbikes since I was about 10 and i'm 18 now. I was looking to buy a 600cc bike, such as the Yamaha r6. I was reading this thread but I had a few questions. I know you said financing really isn't an option but is there any other way to get the bike without paying it in full straight out? I'm straped for money but I'm probably going to wait a year or so anyway till I have some more cash. My parents are also against me getting a bike till I'm 21 so I was wondering if there is anyway to get a loan to buy the bike without a co-signiture from my parents and without paying out the ass for some rediculously high APR. I don't have a full time job only a part time job and my credit is non existent but I am probably going to open a credit card account soon and buy low priced items to start building my credit. Any advice you guys can give me would be great. Thanks again!
Actually, When I was buying my '03 Cobra I was haveing problems getting financed. The dealer tried factory and 15 other banks in San Antonio, all of which said NO with my credit score of 640. I went to my bank (credit Union) who I have done business with for almost 10 years and was approved within 20 minutes. So a relationship with a particular bank does have advantages as your credit score is just a number, but a good relationship goes a long way.
Each year is broken down into four quarters.
1st: Jan, Feb, Mar
2nd: Apr, May, Jun
3rd: Jul, Aug, Sep
4th: Oct, Nov, Dec.
So the best times to buy would be at the end of Mar, Jun, Sep, and Dec with Sep and Dec being optimal in the Northern States (winter).
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I used to have Buell X1 White Lightning until I totalled it 2 1/2 years ago. I have since been looking to buy a new bike (and simultaneously trying to convince my wife to agree to it). I was looking at something smaller than the 1200 cc's that my old bike had but am kind of leary about going to a 600. I had been riding for 6 years when I wrecked my last bike but given what happened on my Buell, I do not feel I need a bike that big again. Can anyone tell me what the major differences are between the GSXR 600 and 750 so I can make a more educated decision.
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4 Posts
Coming out of lurker mode...
I read the original post with a lot of interest, and saved it as a word document. I'll be using it soon, when I purchase a GSX-R1000.
A couple of points though. First, it's extremely difficult to get an owner to allow you to ride his sport bike. The owner (quite reasonably) has concerns about insurance coverage and theft. Also, for a lot of these young fellows selling their bike, it represents most of their net worth. OTOH I'm not going to hand over a big wad of cash to a stranger just to try out his bike either, LOL. If I come back and tell him that "it jumps out of gear", he might say "it never did that before you rode it".
These are basic trust issues, and if you are checking the wire loom for kitty litter, there ain't any trust between the owner and the buyer, is there?
Anyway, I found these generic comments about purchasing a sport bike pretty useful...BUT they aren't GSX-R specific!!! They could apply to any sport bike. So, for those of you who've ridden GSX-R machines a great deal:
What would you look for specifically on a 2002-2005 GSX-R? Are there any weaknesses on this machine to check for specifically? Suspension? Electrical? Engine? Transmission? Bodywork? Frame? Just curious if there are specific wear and tear issues with this bike that weren't addressed in the original post... Thanks!
I read the original post with a lot of interest, and saved it as a word document. I'll be using it soon, when I purchase a GSX-R1000.
A couple of points though. First, it's extremely difficult to get an owner to allow you to ride his sport bike. The owner (quite reasonably) has concerns about insurance coverage and theft. Also, for a lot of these young fellows selling their bike, it represents most of their net worth. OTOH I'm not going to hand over a big wad of cash to a stranger just to try out his bike either, LOL. If I come back and tell him that "it jumps out of gear", he might say "it never did that before you rode it".
These are basic trust issues, and if you are checking the wire loom for kitty litter, there ain't any trust between the owner and the buyer, is there?
Anyway, I found these generic comments about purchasing a sport bike pretty useful...BUT they aren't GSX-R specific!!! They could apply to any sport bike. So, for those of you who've ridden GSX-R machines a great deal:
What would you look for specifically on a 2002-2005 GSX-R? Are there any weaknesses on this machine to check for specifically? Suspension? Electrical? Engine? Transmission? Bodywork? Frame? Just curious if there are specific wear and tear issues with this bike that weren't addressed in the original post... Thanks!
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349 Posts
Ive got to be honest with you, you guys are all going about this the wrong way. Yes the bikes are expensive, but from all of the posts that I have seen there is something wrong. The first part of the post starts out by saying, that you should take 10% off of the asking price. Yeah, maybe if it is a leftover model. Dealers do have to make money, and so do salespeople. I agree that there are some dealers that are bad about tacking on extra fees, and if you are smart enough you will be able to catch that. If I have to waste my time by taking half an hour talking to a customer and building a repoir with him/her and then they automatically want to buy the bike for what we payed for it its like a direct insult to me. Why even come to a dealership? Because you cannot buy a bike directly from the factory!!! If you did, you would have to put it together by yourself from the crate, put fluids in it, get all of the bolts torqued correctly, test ride it, get your own title registered, pay taxes on it, and do all of your own maintenece. Now, how many people could do that by themselves, or who would actually want to? not too many people. (im not saying that some people cant) I get payed commission for what I sell, if we sold everything at what we payed for it the dealership would go bankrupt in a couple days and I would be unemployed. I am here to provide a service to you, I am not your enemy. I have to live too. So when you see the extra fees its for a reason.
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Yes, but what are reasonable fees? Let's say the '06 gixx 1K is msrp'd at $10,999. Is tacking on state tax and $200-$300 in fees to that reasonable? Not if the dealership paid $9440 for it (and got reimbursed for putting the thing together). I understand we all have to make a living, but that's not an excuse to literally rape somebody.
Some dealer ships suck, we have a dealership that does msrp otd. Most bikes are marked up 10% over cost from my research so a fair price is always 5% over invoice plus your fees or msrp otd. (always about the same price or $100 off) not gonna hurt you.
I advise dealers get all there money out of the msrp. Frieght isnt 500 as they want you to believe, but its not free as we consumers would like to believe. Yet in still if you didnt have it on your showroom floor then I couldnt buy it so that arguement is a wash. Doc fee, I could care less who does your paper work, Im only pays Tag and title fee.
If its a trade, then whatever there are asking for is AT LEAST 20% more than they paid. Unless its a popular bike I wouldnt waist my time on it.
I advise dealers get all there money out of the msrp. Frieght isnt 500 as they want you to believe, but its not free as we consumers would like to believe. Yet in still if you didnt have it on your showroom floor then I couldnt buy it so that arguement is a wash. Doc fee, I could care less who does your paper work, Im only pays Tag and title fee.
If its a trade, then whatever there are asking for is AT LEAST 20% more than they paid. Unless its a popular bike I wouldnt waist my time on it.
Oh YOUR FEES are tax, tag, title. Not Doc fees, prep or shipping. If they wont sell you the bike for this (which the new gsx 750 prob wont msrp otd first part of march). Work about 150 of prep into the price. Thatll help everyone get there commision.
Guy tried to sell me an 04 with 1778 miles on it (1000) for 7999.99 I offered 7500 cash with intents to go up to 7800 otd. Bike looked new so you know what that means, yep track bike had racing plastics on. Adv rep that Im not stupid and this bike has been redline in 1st and 2nd prob 500 on the low side to be safe and prob on the 2500+ time to be realistic (more like 5k if the guy raced it for a living which is likely since he never taged it)
I walked away and told him to have a nice day.
Guy tried to sell me an 04 with 1778 miles on it (1000) for 7999.99 I offered 7500 cash with intents to go up to 7800 otd. Bike looked new so you know what that means, yep track bike had racing plastics on. Adv rep that Im not stupid and this bike has been redline in 1st and 2nd prob 500 on the low side to be safe and prob on the 2500+ time to be realistic (more like 5k if the guy raced it for a living which is likely since he never taged it)
I walked away and told him to have a nice day.
Best price to expect is MSRP otd. Maybe even 200-300 over that if you are not patient.
Best thing to understand is if you have cash or perfect credit, you are doing the dealership a favor by buying from them. Now the dealership honestly dont make a lot of markup on new bikes when they come out, and there holdbacks are mostly between 3-5%. So unless its a huge incentive for them to sell the bike ie HUGE MARKUP or HUGE HOLDBACK, most are will to let you walk and let the next idiot pay everything that you didnt want to pay.
Thats why cash is a strong incentive. Its a quick easy sale. I give you money, you give me product. If a sale rep (who has absolutely no power in pricing, and seemily more and more no product knowledge) knows you are gonna have trouble getting financing, its not a whole lot of incentive to waste 6 hrs with you for a 50-70 commission.
If you can stop in a dealership and find a sales manager, strick up a conversation and hopefully that can be the person you can deal with. Sales reps suck at dealerships trying to negotiate.
im considering a zx-10r, depending on what price I can work (thinking about 11,200 tops with LOjak installed, tax, tag, title, prep etc.)
Also go to cyclebuy.com, but the invoice pricing for your bike. Its $13 to get it, but will prob save you 300-600 depending on your patience and negotiation skills.
Best thing to understand is if you have cash or perfect credit, you are doing the dealership a favor by buying from them. Now the dealership honestly dont make a lot of markup on new bikes when they come out, and there holdbacks are mostly between 3-5%. So unless its a huge incentive for them to sell the bike ie HUGE MARKUP or HUGE HOLDBACK, most are will to let you walk and let the next idiot pay everything that you didnt want to pay.
Thats why cash is a strong incentive. Its a quick easy sale. I give you money, you give me product. If a sale rep (who has absolutely no power in pricing, and seemily more and more no product knowledge) knows you are gonna have trouble getting financing, its not a whole lot of incentive to waste 6 hrs with you for a 50-70 commission.
If you can stop in a dealership and find a sales manager, strick up a conversation and hopefully that can be the person you can deal with. Sales reps suck at dealerships trying to negotiate.
im considering a zx-10r, depending on what price I can work (thinking about 11,200 tops with LOjak installed, tax, tag, title, prep etc.)
Also go to cyclebuy.com, but the invoice pricing for your bike. Its $13 to get it, but will prob save you 300-600 depending on your patience and negotiation skills.
As the original poster, I feel that I need to counter your post somewhat.
I was generally refering to a used bike, rather than a new one, hence the advice regarding checking it over real well.
Around here there are a number of dealers that will sell you a new or used bike, I personally rarely buy a new bike, or for that matter a new car, I prefer to buy last years model and avoid the 'hit' as I ride out of the door. This instantly saves me several thousand dollars. This money I can put towards upgrades or personalization, or better yet my stock portfolio !
If the dealer margins are as tight as you would have us beleive, how are they still in business ?
My local Suzuki dealer drives around in an SL500, he IS making serious money, otherwise he would not be able to make his payments. This is not, obviously, from the sale of new sportsbikes, but from the repeat business, the aftermarket sales, the repair work and even from the financing income.
I am fully aware that the margins are reasonably small, the bikes are pretty low value, but its everything else that the dealers really score on.
Two years ago I picked up an 954, I paid $8000 for it, Out The Door, it was a left-over model that had been superceeded by the CBR1K. Did it make it a bad bike ? of course not, it was a bitching bike. I went into the dealership six times, before I rode away on it. Here is how I got my deal
Day1 - Showed interest in the then new CBR600RR, explained that I thought it was a little 'small' and said that I may be interested in a 954, if he had one. Dealer mentions that he has six of them, four red/black, and two titanium. He told me that he could do me one for $9250, plus fees, OTD was $10K
I said I would think about it, but it was over my budget, gave him my card, and left.
Day 2 - Went to see the dealer, spoke to a different salesman, mentioned the 954, and he said that they could 'do me a deal' if I wanted to take the red/black one, he could get it 'under 9K'
Day 3 - went to another dealer, got him down to $8750 OTD on a Red/Black one, or $9K OTD on a titanium one.
Day 4 - Another day, another dealer, mentioned that I had offers of $8500 OTD on a titanium 954, he said he could beat it, and gave me a written quote for $8500.
Day4PM, went to original dealer, showed him the quote, he called the other dealer to verify. offers $8500 with a 'free' helmet and jacket, but not tax. I get it in writing
Day 5 - I go to a third dealer, show them both quotes, mention that I may have a trade-in (I didn't) tell him its a '98 GSXR750, and he offers me $4500 for the GSXR, and $3750 OTD difference, if he finances it. I manage to get the dealer to let me ride the 954 around the block, he hold my licence, my insurance, and my car keys !
Day 6 - walk into dealer(3), with $8500 in my pocket (well $7500 in one pockect, and $1K in the other). Point to the Titanium 954, and tell the salesman that I want a cash price. He says $10K OTD, I mention that I have been dealing with another salesman, and he has offered me $8250, tell him that I have $7500 in $100bills in my pocket, and place the cash on his desk. He goes to see the manager. Manager comes out, and explains that this is the price inclduing a trade-in, which the would expect to sell on. I mention that they had not seen my trade-in, and we debate the fner points of a 98 GSXR with 60K on the clock
he tells me that the bike is not checked over, and will need $250 assembly and check fee, so the minumum he can let it go for is $8250. BINGO !!!
I mention that I have already ridden it, and I am willing to waive the setup charge.
I hand over $8000 in cash, plus $32 for a couple of add-ons, and I ride away
Sadly I was wiped out by a BMW a few hours later......
But, the point is, that there are margins on the bikes, the dealers may no make a lot on the actual sale, but they sure as hell make a lot on the service, and the add-ons.
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I'm sorry I cant read anymore.On a New bike 10% off doesnt happen unless its a leftover.There is only 17% mark up in Suzuki's less on some Yamaha's.Second Insurance is not required for financing.Suzuki Finance (HSBC)doesnt require it at all.Yamaha uses two Banks,HSBC,and GE.Ge only requires insurance if you finance over 20k.There are other secondary lenders that require it,but then you are paying 17 or more percent anyways.I read something someone posted about last day of month to meet a quota from Suzuki.Horseshit every dealer has a certain amount of bikes allocated to them for the year.There are two ways to get more bikes allocated.One buying them from other dealers,this gives you that extra unit allocated to you the following year.The other ways is simply sell them quick and complain till they give the dealer more units.I saw someone say like a car ask to see an invoice and pay $100 over.If the dealer does this its a fake invoice.No dealer will sell a new undamaged sportbike for $100 over cost.It is better to buy a bike in the winter months .In the summer there is a frenzy for the new models and the spring bug hits people.The one problem with this is dealers run out of sportbikes in winter months.The Manufacture spreads there allocations out and releases bike in such an order to keep demand high.Especialy Yamaha.You notice there are never any leftover R1's,or R6's.Yamaha will actualy not release a Dealers bikes if they have too many in stock.Honda is the only bike manufactuer that will actualy try and flood the market like they do with cars.
Freight and Prep:This is how dealers make money.These charges are real!!Just 90% of the time are inflated.There isnt a manufactuer that charges more then $175 for freight.It usualy costs around $100 to build it.Freight charges are the same Nationwide!!!Prep can vary from dealer to dealer.The dealer I work out now charges true freight and prep.I used to work at a dealer in MD that charged $500 for freight and $280 fofr prep.This is how you make the deal look better then it is.They discount the top line and build it back with freight and prep.Truth is you get a discount from MSRP of $500 or more with no freight or prep you got a good deal!!!
Freight and Prep:This is how dealers make money.These charges are real!!Just 90% of the time are inflated.There isnt a manufactuer that charges more then $175 for freight.It usualy costs around $100 to build it.Freight charges are the same Nationwide!!!Prep can vary from dealer to dealer.The dealer I work out now charges true freight and prep.I used to work at a dealer in MD that charged $500 for freight and $280 fofr prep.This is how you make the deal look better then it is.They discount the top line and build it back with freight and prep.Truth is you get a discount from MSRP of $500 or more with no freight or prep you got a good deal!!!
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