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Discussion Starter #1
Which oil do you use in your oil cooled gixxers?
So far I have been using the Castrol GP (15W40)in my gixxer 1100('91)

Can you recommend other oils?
I am not a racer and most of the time I keep rpms low- all I want is perfect protection for the bike.


By the way: What do you think about these additives?

One of my friends recommended the MATHY additive.
Check out the homepage and tell me what you think.

www.mathy.de (English version available)

The idea of this additive is that it "glues" together the oil molecules so that the oil film cannot break. The company promises "Full Coverage" in case of an engine damage.

Another way of ripping customers?


Thanks for your posts!
Lemmy69
 

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Originally posted by Lemmy69:
Which oil do you use in your oil cooled gixxers?
So far I have been using the Castrol GP (15W40)in my gixxer 1100('91)

Can you recommend other oils?
I am not a racer and most of the time I keep rpms low- all I want is perfect protection for the bike.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">any quality oil changed at regular intervals will do fine.....personally i'd run a full synthetic, though.



By the way: What do you think about these additives?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i think the people who sell these are full of shit. no independent, objective, valid laboratory testing has ever shown oil additives to be of any real benefit (somebody correct me if i'm wrong....but i would expect you to show me real test data, not hokey anecdotes). in short, they're a waste of money.



The idea of this additive is that it "glues" together the oil molecules so that the oil film cannot break.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">


this is a fine example of the 'fear synthesis' bullshit marketing tactic....scare the typical consumer into believing that what they have now is somehow inadequate, and that this revolutionary product will make up for the inadequacy.

here, they make the unsuspecting consumer believe that the oil film in their untreated oil is somehow weak, and that their additive makes the oil film completely invulnerable.

interestingly enough, however, they don't provide any real evidence to prove that claim (or any other claim they make on their web page).



let's take a closer look at some of their other claims, shall we?

'MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additives practically prevent metal-to-metal contact.'

interestingly enough, this is exactly what oil does! and does quite well, in fact. if it didn't, you would not, for example, find a single plain bearing in a modern motor, because they'd be toast due to metal-to-metal contact. in reality, there actually isn't (nor should there be) any metal-to-metal contact.....the oil film prevents this. and does so WITHOUT the help of any additives.

but of course, untreated oil film is not invincible like MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additive treated oil film is, right?


'MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additives extremely improve the sliding abilities of engine parts in frictional contact, thus minimizing wear and reducing working temperatures.'

not just improve, but extremely improve.

because, of course, if you did not treat your oil with MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additive, the sliding abilities of engine parts is extremely poor. the millions of dollars and countless manhours of research and engineering that oil manufacturers spend has somehow overlooked this.


'MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additives clean internals of engines and machines (pistons, cylinder sleeves, valves, oil leads), transmissions and differential drives, greatly extending service life of these units.'

motor oils have something called 'detergent additives' in them. i wonder what these are for.


'MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additives reduce friction inside engines, transmissions, and differentials to a minimum.'

wow, that's a new one.


'MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additives reduce consumption of fuel and oil, giving higher power output at the same time.....

awesome d00d! i guess that's why all the race teams use them, right?


This means savings of ressources, fewer harmful emissions, reduction of waste oil. In all, the environment will be relieved.'

ah yes, perhaps one of the greatest tactics in any good snakeoil salesman's handbook.....be sure to emphasize that if a consumer uses your product, he or she will be SAVING THE ENVIRONMENT!!!

you see, that's because MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additives are 100% all-natural, 100% totally biodegradable, 100% fully recycleable, and its manufacture uses up absolutely no natural resources whatsoever.

wait, i didn't see that anywhere on their otherwise informative web page....



it does, however, have some other nice touches that almost all other snakeoil sales brochures do.

for example, the story of otto mathe, the one-armed racing legend who became the pioneer of additive development.

this story works so well because we all know it is a prerequisite of any REAL pioneer of oil additives to have some kind of physical or mental deformity to bring out his oil additive genius.

also, the fact that otto mathe was a racecar driving legend clearly gives him much more knowledge and experience than a lubrication engineer could ever hope to have.



another plus: having its domain name registered in germany and using very subtly broken english gives potential suc, i mean consumers, the impression that this is a german product. i'm sure we're all aware of german engineering prowess. if it's german, it's got to be good.



The company promises "Full Coverage" in case of an engine damage.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes. of their ass, most likely.....



Another way of ripping customers?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i hope i didn't give you that impression with my reply.

i'm sure that MATHY® UNIVERSAL Additives really are an excellent additive, and that MATHY® UNIVERSAL isn't out to take your money.





and i am jesus.

[ 04-09-2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: jeff ]
 

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ran a lot of different oils in different types of motors, a quality synthetic is great, but a standard motorcycle oil is up to the challenge of your application.
 

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yeah, what Jeff said


-Karl
 

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just a 'known' brand and change every 2500-300 miles and you'll be fine, also replacing the filter with a genuine Suzuki one at the same time.

These additives are bullshit,
in my opinion. Money for nothing.

Andy
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for your opinions!
I just wanted to get some confirmation.
I think I'll stick to normal oil and change it according to the manual.


TO: JEFF!
Thanks for your long post. This was the fist time that "Jesus" himself answered one of my questions.


See ya!
Lemmy69

[ 04-09-2002, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Lemmy69 ]
 

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My bike drinks quarts like beer. I just use gas station brand oil (cheap and convenient) when it needs it and Fram oil filters (auto parts store) when I change the oil (every 3-4000 or so). As long as it meets all those standards on the back of the quart, and it's clean and the consistancy is good you should be alright. I'm coming up on 60k miles and I beat the crap out of my bike. I bet it's got another 60 g's in it too.


[ 04-09-2002, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: 88/750 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
TO: 88/750


Any problems so far with your engine? Were there some parts (clutch etc) that had to be changed?
My bike has 36.000km on the clock and everything has been quite fine so far.

Lemmy69

[ 04-10-2002, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Lemmy69 ]
 

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Lemmy, I've had no oil related problems at all, ZERO. The inside of my motor is like brand new (clean and good compression). I'm probably getting due for a clutch, though. Just keep an eye on your level and change your oil regularly. And as far a Fram goes, I'm staying with them. I just wish they'd put some of their grip tape on their motorcycle filters.


[ 04-10-2002, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: 88/750 ]
 

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Yeah, any of the oil engineers ('tribologists'???) that I've talked to say that adding more additives results in having less oil. Street oils, high perf or not, all have additives to hold the shit in suspension in order for it to pass through and stick in the filter (ergo, detergent oil). Pure racing oil, like the straight weight Redline varieties contain little if any of these additives and need to be dumped after the race weekend.

I'll be a bit contrary here though - if you are just futzing around at low rpms etc, eg around town, stop/start - you are really stressing the oil. This is not what the manual is referring to. They expect a perfectly clean environment complete with a high percentage of highway miles. As such, you might want to take that change interval and reduce it by some percentage. Get the revs up a bit more too!
 
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