[TurboGuido]

Just making this here thread for some problems i'm facing with my k6 1000 turbo, I'm hoping there are some people left here who can help me out


I'm currently rebuilding the turbo and cleaning and checking stuff around the bike, checked the valves, replaced sparkplugs, and did the clutch-grab modification because the bike was impossible to launch above 3000 rpm.

The question which I'm having right now is about the MAP sensor(s). This bike actually has 2 ecu's (stock and KMS) and 2 MAP sensors, one is the original which is connected to vacuum (below throttle plates) and one is a KMS one which is connected to the plenum (boost). I'm guessing the KMS is powering the secondary fuel injectors but I'm still trying to figure that out.
The stock MAP sensor is connected to the vacuum line, but after a 2-way piece which is left open on one side. This means there is effectively no (or a lot less) vacuum that the MAP sensor is measuring. Is this some trick that has to do with the turbo setup or does this have to be blocked off?

 

[TurboGuido]

Pic

 

[BillV]

Have you read through this? I raise the IAP issue early on. Oldgixxer used to know about this stuff. But sadly he's gone.

 

[TurboGuido]

Have you read through this? I raise the IAP issue early on. Oldgixxer used to know about this stuff. But sadly he's gone.

Thanks for the link. I didn't consider the oem MAP sensor would freak out reading boost numbers instead of vacuum so it makes sense that way. But the one-way valve (check valve?) was mounted the wrong way I guess. Thanks a lot for clearing that up, really appreciate it 👍

 

[TwistedMister]

lord, what kind of beast is that thing with a turbo? sheesh, you wear a diaper when you ride it?

 

[TurboGuido]

lord, what kind of beast is that thing with a turbo? sheesh, you wear a diaper when you ride it?

Thanks bro 😂

Let's just say I get used to power and speed a little too easily. This bike is still a pretty moderate build, no engine modifications other than a cylinder head spacer to lower compression and a lockup clutch. It's running around .5 bar of boost which results in about 200-220 whp. We'll see how long it takes me to get used to that and properly build the whole engine 😁

 

[BillV]

I'm hoping that you've now noticed the mention of the GM 3 Bar MAP Sensor in #102 of my link above. It's discussed here and elsewhere. It seems to be a better solution than bleeding sensors and check valves. However it may require a significant rework if you already have a running bike.

 

[TurboGuido]

I'm hoping that you've now noticed the mention of the GM 3 Bar MAP Sensor in #102 of my link above. It's discussed here and elsewhere. It seems to be a better solution than bleeding sensors and check valves. However it may require a significant rework if you already have a running bike.

The KMS is running a 2.5 bar MAP sensor but as i expected only runs the secondary fuel injectors. The primary runs on the stock ECM and MAP, I don't know why the original builder went for this setup as I myself probably would have gone for a full KMS or similar setup, but as long as it works I don't plan on changing it right now. If I would aim for higher HP numbers in the future I will surely try to do it right the first time and redo the whole FI system. But for now it works 😁

/edit, what I'm trying to say is that the primary (stock) fuel injectors should be working on full duty cycle anyway regardless of the MAP sensor issue, and the secondary (uprated) fuel injectors run off the KMS with the 2.5 bar MAP sensor so I'm guessing redoing the system wouldn't make a lot of difference right? Correct me if I'm wrong ofcourse.

That being said, bleeding boost on purpose at the MAP sensor definitly feels weird and unnatural to me 😂 Wouldn't it work the same if the check valve was in line with the MAP sensor? As in, air can go out (vacuum) but not in (boost)? Or at least place an extra check valve in line before the t-piece with the venting check valve (which is what I'm currently considering)?

 

[BillV]

I really don't know as there are way to many possibilities here. For example it's possible that the check valve is being used as an orifice. One thing you could do is measure the MAP sensor output voltage and see how much it changes when you plug up the bleed (this at different manifold pressures). Beyond that I can only suggest that you go back to the original builders to see what they'll tell you about the system. However they might clam up thinking that they have a lifetime client. You could also compare the current maps with their original configuration.

 

[TurboGuido]

I really don't know as there are way to many possibilities here. For example it's possible that the check valve is being used as an orifice. One thing you could do is measure the MAP sensor output voltage and see how much it changes when you plug up the bleed (this at different manifold pressures). Beyond that I can only suggest that you go back to the original builders to see what they'll tell you about the system. However they might clam up thinking that they have a lifetime client. You could also compare the current maps with their original configuration.

I have already tried to make contact with the original builder but he is ignoring my messages so far.

Measuring MAP voltages under load is a good idea, I'll be sure to do that when the bike is up and running again 👍

 

[TurboGuido]

I'm just wondering if someone could identify a turbocharger just off some pictures? According to the original builders parts sheet it's supposed to be a Mitsubishi TD04-16T, but the turbine housing says Emusa TD05. I'm a complete noob at this so I have honestly no idea how to identify this turbo. Can measure things if needed ofcourse. Hoping for some expertise here 🤞

 

[Mb1500]

That’s the compressor housing. Looks like the description is correct but it’s not a genuine MHI part. Sold by EMUSA basically a Chinese turbo I would replace it with a genuine MHI EVO3 16G looks like this:

 

[TurboGuido]

That’s the compressor housing. Looks like the description is correct but it’s not a genuine MHI part. Sold by EMUSA basically a Chinese turbo I would replace it with a genuine MHI EVO3 16G looks like this:


View attachment 584487

So it is a Mitsubishi TD04-16T but with a non-original compressor housing, if I understand correctly? What would this mean in terms of function or power output? And what would be the difference with the 16G compressor housing?

 

[Mb1500]

It’s likely the entire turbo is not genuine. What it means is that it is probably not as reliable, probably does not preform quite as good as genuine, etc. People on car forums have done comparisons that can be seen on a dyno.

But it’s all relative. Yours could be excellent quality and preform reliably for you and make good power for years there really is no telling unless you do a back to back comparison.

I haven’t heard of a 16T in that kind of turbo so I’m thinking and it’s a typo and it’s the regular 16G comp. wheel.

 

[TurboGuido]

It’s likely the entire turbo is not genuine. What it means is that it is probably not as reliable, probably does not preform quite as good as genuine, etc. People on car forums have done comparisons that can be seen on a dyno.

But it’s all relative. Yours could be excellent quality and preform reliably for you and make good power for years there really is no telling unless you do a back to back comparison.

I haven’t heard of a 16T in that kind of turbo so I’m thinking and it’s a typo and it’s the regular 16G comp. wheel.

Thanks a lot for the information 👍

I have only ridden this bike once before tearing it down for a full service, the one thing that really surprised me was the total lack of power below 8000rpm. This is why I sent the turbo core out for rebuilding and added a manual boost controller. I am hoping this will make the bike build boost faster, if not then I'm considering to swap out the turbo with something smaller. Since the engine is pretty much stock it can't handle boost over .5 bar anyway so maybe a smaller turbo (TD03/04?) would be better for this application. Also the bike didn't even have a boost gauge so I wasn't able to tell exactly what the turbo was doing. The bike should be up and running again soon I hope 😁

 

[Mb1500]

If you’re only doing .5bar I would strongly suggest a genuine MHI TD05 14B. Will spool up much quicker than what you’ve got and should be pretty much a direct swap except for your compressor outlet which looks like it had been modified.

 

[TurboGuido]

If you’re only doing .5bar I would strongly suggest a genuine MHI TD05 14B. Will spool up much quicker than what you’ve got and should be pretty much a direct swap except for your compressor outlet which looks like it had been modified.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take it to heart 😁

 

[TurboGuido]

The TD05-14b is apparently a PITA to find here, the only one I can get is a Subaru one but it uses a 3bolt flange instead of 4 like my manifold has.

The Saab TD04HL-15T is pretty common and quite easily to find, but will this be a much better fit to my application compared to my current rebuild China TD05-16G?

 

[Mb1500]

That’s a tough one. Don’t really know much about that variant being stateside but it looks like possibly the turbine inlet flange but definitely the turbine outlet flange is going to be different and won’t bolt up to your current header and downpipe.

You might be able to get a TD04 13G exhaust housing from a DSM automatic but if those turbine wheels are truly an HL on the Saab then you might have to have the housing machined to accept the larger wheel (this is common practice no big deal) and should be able to bolt up with no problems.

OEM Mitsubishi 49177-17000 Turbo Turbine Housing TD04-13G 4G63 NEW IN BOX P9 – Industrial Surplus Direct

 

[TurboGuido]

That’s a tough one. Don’t really know much about that variant being stateside but it looks like possibly the turbine inlet flange but definitely the turbine outlet flange is going to be different and won’t bolt up to your current header and downpipe.

You might be able to get a TD04 13G exhaust housing from a DSM automatic but if those turbine wheels are truly an HL on the Saab then you might have to have the housing machined to accept the larger wheel (this is common practice no big deal) and should be able to bolt up with no problems.

OEM Mitsubishi 49177-17000 Turbo Turbine Housing TD04-13G 4G63 NEW IN BOX P9 – Industrial Surplus Direct

Thanks again for all the info and links 😁👍
I thought the Saab turbo would fit but apparently not, that's a pity. I'm starting to get a headache just seeing all these numbers and differences 😂

I guess I'll keep an eye out for a 14B, for now I will bolt it back together with the Chinaparts and hope it will keep working long enough.