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Discussion Starter #1
Hi! I know this has been talked about a lot on this forum in the past, but after having read pretty much everything, I'm still stuck with this problem. I've had great help with fitting a K03 crank in a K06 engine in the past, on this forum, so hopefully somebody will be able to help with this as well...

I have a small sprint car that I bought used years ago, it has a K06 GSXR1000 in it. Right now, the car is in the shop with a newly rebuilt engine I did. I have yet to hit the track this year (I'm late!), but everything looks good so far. Lately, while working on a new fan setup, I noticed that I only had battery voltage (to the battery) with the engine running, instead of the supposed 14+ volts. I did troubleshoot **exactly** as per the service manual (and more!). Everything was inspected and looks good, and every related part were also tested good (battery, rectifier, generator, wiring, connections, etc). Still, when I connect everything togheter, the system fails to provide the required 14-15.5v. I've seen that kind of problem in the past on other stuff, when things test ok yet fail to function when under load, so I closed the book and began swapping stuff...

The rectifier was first replaced by a used one (said to be good by the seller, and tested good as well), with no change. Everyone was after me to change the my old battery (even though I was checked ok), so I bought a brand new one, OEM equivalent, and saw no change. After reading about the bad reputation of those rectifiers, I decided to try a brand new one as well, still with no change. I then tried to swap the rotor and stator with another used set that I had, that also tested and looked good. Basically, I tried everything. It still won't work. I think I have a pretty good understanding of how things work, but at this point, either I am completely missing something about how this is supposed to work, or I am very unlucky with parts blowing up in a an un-diagnosable manner...

I have specific questions that maybe some of you can answer:

1) I can't think of anything more than 3 white wires connecting the generator to the rectifer, and 2 pairs of wires (black w/white stripe to (-) and black w/red stripe to (+)) connecting the rectifier to the battery. Yet a guy I talked to at a nearby shop swore there has to be an orange/ignition wire or something that isn't sending a signal to tell the rectifier to work. Looking at the schematic, I can't see what this is about, all I see is more or less a charging system connected permenently to a battery, like a charger would do. I don't see any input carring wire to the rectifier or else. I see an orange/ignition wire, but can't link it in any way to the problem I have. What am I missing? I seemed to be bothering the guy, so I did not ask further and left...

2) Also, with the engine running and generator disconnected, I have the required 65V at 5000rpm, but this drops to 1-2V (or so, by memory), when I connect the 3 white wires to the rectifier. This may be normal because of the diodes inside the rectifier, but I'm not sure. Anyone knows what voltage I should read with those wires connected and the engine running?

3) I never had a bike in my life, so I could't guess, but when I bought the first, (used) rectifier, it came on it's bracket. I noticed that this bracket insulates the unit (through grommets) from vibration (and maybe?) electrically, as well. In my car, it has always been directly mounted to the motor plate – basically a big ground. I tested no signs of continuity between any of the rectifier wires and the rectifier housing, but I still wonder if this could have been an issue, causing a short or something.

4) When I received the brand new (second!) rectifier from the dealer, it had no signs of ever being used, but the box wasn't sealed in any way, and this has me wondering... does Suzuki usually ship electrical stuff in sealed packages like many company usually do?

5) To help isolate the problem, I tried to diagnose with everything out of the car. I only have those 3 white wires coming from the generator in the car. They go to the rectifier that's not even in the car anymore, and, with jumper wires, I connect the 2 B/W togheter and to the battery negative, and the B/R wires toghther to battery positive. The battery is now out of the car, too, so everthing is isolated. Am I doing something wrong? I know I should get 14-15,5V with the engine running at 5000rpm, battery connected, but I'd like to know, should I also get this voltage at those pairs of B/W and B/R wires (in the black plug) when the battery is disconnected? Also, with the battery connected, I tried with and without a load on the system, doesn't change a thing...

6) I have about 0,5 ohm between the magnet and the rotor housings that I have, is this nomal? Not a lot of info on this...

It's possible that I've had this problem from day one, but since the races we do are really short sprints, and also since I got into the habit of leaving the battery connected to a tender all the time in the shop, maybe it never had a chance to cause issues and drain the battery.

Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks!!

Eric
 

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Electrosport and RaceTech have charging system fault finding flow charts. Take a look at them. They also mention the differences associated with the number of wire colors. Note that Suzuki doubles up on the wires between the R/R and the main harness. There are two positive and two negative wires, each with the same function.

The 3 pin connector associated with the wires from the stator to the R/R is a known trouble spot. Make sure that you have a good electrical connection there.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I've already seen Electrosport's flow chart, but I can't find anything from racetech... is it on racetech.com? Yes, I've noticed the doubled positive and negatives between the R/R and the wiring harness (going to the battery). And every connection is perfect...

This black connector with the doubled wires that you are talking about, if it's left disconnected, should I read 14v+ between the pins, with the engine running, or is it, for some reason, necessary to connect it to the harness (or battery) for charging voltage to show up? When left disconnected, I have about nothing, and when connected, I never have anything more than battery voltage...
 

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It's racetechelectirc.com. Look under Tech Info. It's very similar to Electrosport.

I'm not particularly comfortable with leaving the R/R unconnected to a battery. Either through the wiring harness or directly.

"I never have anything more than battery voltage..."
What battery voltage? With the engine running, it should charge up to 14+. You really also need some load on the system. Have you been going through 9-8 to 9-11 in the service manual?

This is how Suzuki ships them (sort of sealed):
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I just found the flowchart you refer to, thanks.

I don't know either if if's a good idea to leave the R/R disconnected, but running out of ideas, I wanted to try to see if I would get any signs of life with it unplugged, while measuring voltage across the pins inside the connector. I have just millivolts, nothing more.

When I say I never have anything more than the battery voltage, I mean just that. I should have 14+ with the engine running, and I always have, say a little over 13 volts, or whatever it shows when at rest. It doesn't move when the engine is revved. I can't remember what I measured, but it doesn't go below, probably 11,3 volts or so when statring, so that's another sign that my batteries (the new and the old) seem good. I tested them as per the manual and with a load tester, too. I've been through 9-8 to 9-11, and I also had a good look at the electrical schematic. I've had it enlaged, so it's easier to follow, and there's not much to it. Also, it's summed up nicely on the little drawing on top of page 9-11. Like I said, I tried something else, connecting everthing as on that very drawing, without going trough the wiring harness; just the generator to the R/R, and the R/R to the battery (with aligator clips). The plan was to eliminate the harness from the equation.

Also, when everything is in the car (through the harness) I tried with or without a load, and everywhere in beteen. I have a few accessories I can turn on and off, I also tried to be a little more agressive, and loaded the battery with a battery load tester. The voltage drops normally relative the the load, but I have no signs of the generator kicking in or anything. I would mind if voltage would drop from, say, 15,5 volts, but it does drop from around 13 volts...

It looks as if the R/R is shot, but I already tried 2 of them, so I'm really wondering how many of them I have to try to get it working again. By the way, my R/Rs were tested ok as per the diode test table on page 9-11...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I just saw the picture of the R/R and the box. Mine wasn't even taped, so that's one more thing to doubt about. I didn't notice at first, so I paid for it and left, but now I realise I should never have accepted the box when at the store...
 

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Have you tried measuring the resistances of the wires connecting the R/R to the stator and also the resistance of the stator coils and between the coils and ground (as described in the manual)?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yes, the wires and connections from the R/R to the stator and to the harness (or battery) are all good. And stator coil resitance all show 0,9 ohm. All 3 coils aren't shorted to ground, I get O/L on the meter between them and the stator housing.
 

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So you have a stator that produces 65V AC at 5000rpm with no load attached, which is connected to an R/R that checks out on all diode checks and is then connected directly to an otherwise unconnected (to the bike electrics) battery, but you get 1-2V at the output of the stator when connected to the R/R and essentially nothing at the output of the R/R, correct? Excuse the reiteration of what you've more or less stated explicitly, but the situation is weird enough to warrant double-checking.
 

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Is there any chance that you can swap in a known good R/R, say like from a friend?

I see that Racetech has a neat test rig and will test your R/R for $20. That might be well spent, given all the hassle that you're going through. Per their video, the rig has the ability to dynamically test the stator too. But yours seems to be OK and they might also need your rotor.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hello guys...

Well, after checking and testing everything many times, swapping a lot of parts and reading your replys, I decided (a few days ago) I'd check everthing one more time, from the start, after a good nitght of sleep (for once), and I managed to fix to thing... *finally*.

This time, for some reason, I noticed that there was some (noticeable) voltage difference between the negative at the battery relative to right before entering the R/R, so an inquiry led me to cut open the main wiring harness and dig... Not a lot of fun to do; it's quite hard to access with everything installed the way it is in my case.

It turned out to be a bunch of ground wires that are all crimped and taped togheter inside the harness... that was my problem. This looked like something done at the factory, and it seemed well made and all, but a little bit on the flimsy side considering the current flowing in there. It was not corroded, frayed, or damaged in any way, but it didn't seem to flow current properly... it actually got quite hot to the touch after running the engine for a while. So I cleaned up the wiring a little and gave everyone a good ground. Everything now works perfectly, as per the service manual. I have 14,3v and more at 5000.

I don't know why I did not find the culprit before, because I'd already checked for voltage loss a couple of times. Also, I don't know why I couldn't get it to work when set up out of the car (as described before), since I was not going through the harness. Maybe the aligator cables I was using were not good enough to carry all that juice, go figure. Or maybe the thing doesn't like me and decided to mess with me a little, which it sure did...

To those who wonder, I did measure the current, with a clamp meter, going out of the R/R, to the battery, once everything was fixed. The meter read 24 amps, which is not that weak after all, that's quite a lot of current actually.

Again, thanks a lot *everyone* for sharing ideas and taking the time. For a moment I never thought I'd get this thing to work again, and was really ticked off, but your support inspired me to dig some more.

Thanks!!

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter #12
And by the way, not that I've had to deal with them, but I found a company in the Montreal/Quebec area that is specialized in powersports charging system, similar to Rick's or Electrosport I believe, so if any of you Canucks ever need something, it's called rmstator.com...

Eric
 
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