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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, total newbie here to bikes in general (especially carbs) but have been into cars since forever. I got the opportunity to get a 97 srad 600 (17k mi) and am running into some fuel related issues.
Initially when I first got it, it was sitting for a long time maybe 4 years. First thing I checked was to see if the motor was seized. Manually rotated the crank no problem. So I threw a new battery and all new fluids in it. I pulled the tank and had lots of rust inside. I figured the pump was toast (which it was) so i threw a new pump and sock on it. I "derusted" the tank by soaking it in cleaning vinegar for a few days and agitating it and it cleaned it well enough. When I tried to start it up everything lit up except the starter was not engaging so I narrowed it down to the relay. I still wanted to see it start so I used a jumper wire to bypass the relay and it started to turn over like normal I would assume. At this time I was ready to put gas in it so I put in a quarter tank and primed it. When I primed it and cranked it manually with the jumper wire I started smelling fuel. There was fuel dripping out the breather hose I believe (the bigger hose on the back of the fuel tank?). I had also noticed that there was fuel dripping out of the 1st cylinder exhaust manifold flange. If the internal copper piping for the breather on the fuel tank has a hole in it can I cap it? Also I don't know where to start with the fuel leak at the manifold. I read something about floating in the carb or something like that can cause fuel to leak out? Anything helps. Let me know if I can get you guys any more details to narrow this down. Mahalo!
 

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Fuel should only be in the fuel line.
You need a carb overhaul, and most likely a petcock, or oem rebuild kit. Your needle, and or your needle seat o-rings aren't sealing. Hydrolok..Google....Carlsalter.com for a 600cc manual.
 
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Por15 kit was the goto kit for fixing a shoddy tank once upon a time....

If fuel is coming out the tubes from the back of the tank itself, it's likely the pipes themselves have been rusted threw on the inside of the tank somewhere.... Test by blocking the breather holes under the fuel cap (remove the fuel cap/lock from the tank itself) Take the tube and try to blow air threw it with blocking the holes from the top of the of the tank... If you can get air threw with blocking it, it's a pretty good indicated you've got a bad pipe within the tank itself... Could just plug the leaking one, or have a brave shop weld it shut on the backside. They are breathers, so it'll just boil down to how you want to handle it. Oh and If it holds a seal when testing, might just be your fuel cap orange rubber thing may have worn out letting fuel pass easily when it expands.

If your pockets are deep , you could go this route and just replace the tank with a new one that wont rust:

This is a quick way to have peace of mind for the petcock/fuel pump:
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Chris Hunt / ccmhunt - would be the guy to toss your carb rack to have it fully rebuilt and drop in ready to go once ya get it back.

What else...?
 

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yikes, gonna need a carb rebuild all new parts, jets, needle valve and seats for fuel shutoff, make sure your taper needles are not corroded, I would dip many times and blow out, yamalube carb cleaner, works great, blow out with air

all new o-rings and gaskets, all of em, float cup, choke plungers, the one a the top, the air/fuel, a good kit should give you all those and new adjuster and washers too..

make sure your diaphragms are good no tears soft and working.. make sure choke plungers work well and the circuits clean and working 100%.. new nipple caps if you have vacuum ports unused, my 98 has one each unused like 6mm nipples.. I use fresh caps each time as they get old and cracked and if they leak welp thats no good..

all jets are new and passageways a re clean and clear... where a pro comes in, they know how much air should be blowing through these.. but sonic dip and blow like 3-4 times, I just stick a disposable electric toothbrush under the container I soak em in, leave it on, it will run like 20 hours at least full blast..

the sonic part creates a current and the vibrations help loosen off gunk, with Yamalube its great as you can see the stuff pooling up on top and then stuff at the bottom, a clear soak container works best so you can see the action as it happens..

use a container just big enough to hold the carbs no more that way you wont use as much cleaner it is like $18 a quart but so worth it, you dilute it with 1 quart of distilled water only when you are ready to use it don't pre mix and store it..

the $18 or $36 bucks is so worth it as even a munkey can get em clean using that stuff, no real skill involved, just rinse with warm water and blow out, maybe keep dipping in fresh the first 2 times, you will see the lacquer float and pool up on top, when you stop seeing the lacquer pool up they are clean, dip one more time for giggles, I go like 8 hours my initial dip, then 2 more dips at 4 hours each, then my last dip 2 hours, fresh dip if I have it..

maybe split up soak time over a few days so you don't have to leave them in the dip overnight.. stay strict with the time the carbs are sitting in the dip, don't wanna dip em too long..not sure what may happen, don't wanna know..

then if you have all new parts its fairly easy, pay attention, get the manual, adjust floats to the book and the air/fuel screws you should be good to go.. bench sync then you will need a gauge sync on the carb bank..

you can make a home made sorta old style mercury stick gauge out of clear hose and use like hydraulic fluid, the blue stuff, heaviest weight you can get to mimmick mercury, strap hoses to a yard stick or whatever to keep the hoses vertical and stable be sure to leave enough hose length to reach carbs and have the stick hanging like off clipon or mirror, this home made style sync stick will get em close but wont nut em.. my experience anyway..

you can get dial gauges online, you use tees on those to calibrate em to each other, videos online how to do that, then that will nut em real good.. be sure to set them dials up right, they have adjusters on the bottom to keep the needles from jumping all over, tighten those but not too much they all need to get proper air flow don't choke off one or two with that adjuster, just enough to get the needles to hold still and you're golden... sync away..

do the sync right, get the right sized jets and adjust everything proper.. if carbs are clean as new and synced right these bikes run real good IMHO..

I rode my 98 600 around for like 5 years without the carbs being cleaned and synced properly, once I finally got em right with all new parts? AMAZING, new bike... lol

I finally broke down and got a good rebuild kit with all new parts, everything.. good carb cleaning.. new pump motor, new filter sock, new petcock rebuild, all new jets, needle valves, taper needles, o-rings gaskets and I made sure the floats were nutted all the same, got a dial style sync setup and then nutted the sync, runs like a champ.. even got new cables.. why not, now its all as new and feels great

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I like that more lol I don't trust myself with carbs haven't touched one in years let alone sync them haha I've been trying to get a hold of him but it says I'm not allowed to. Maybe because I'm a new member? Anywhere/anyone else I can try?
Or just get ahold of Chris Hunt
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
His inbox limit is prolly maxed, I think he no longer actively monitors gixxer.com .
Damn well looks like I'll at least give it a cleaning and inspect the needles. If I just pull the jets and clean them except the idler jet (cuz I think that's the fixed one) do I have to synce them or no? I won't be playing with adjustments
 

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Bench syncing is more than enough. But if done wrong , one can easily can nick and damage the butterflys. If rebuilding a carb rack properly is within your abilities, then yeah no harm. But if your intent is to just take them appart, soak them with carb cleaner, maybe replace some jets.... It's easily something that can get buggered up very fast and cause never ending headaches.... Keep in mind, carb cleaner eats rubber, and your carb's rubber is 20 years old....

Also bare in mind this dilemma is often why people choose to go the route of getting a needle jet kit.. Since it comes with new jets and needles , the only thing left to replace would be the float bowl gaskets and the float needle seats and seat themselves and perhaps the tube orings aswell... (#40, 13$ each, 1999 Suzuki GSX-R600 CARBURETOR FITTINGS (MODEL W/X/Y) | Part Shark)

Best kits available for the srad 600 would be the Yosh MJN or Factory Pro TI.... and again, Chris Hunt is the man for the task....

I'd strongly recommend reaching out to ccmhunt just to know it's done rite.

But if you want to do it yourself, just be prepared to bugger something up.... I'd strongly urge you to not buy locally any components, and only buy OEM mikuni carb components. It's a daunting task to jump between referring to the online motorcycle part fiche's then referencing the mikuni part catalog...

To do the task properly you will need to replace a long laundry list of components that will quickly cost a standalone purchaser well over 200$ and thats without getting any kit. All things said and done, carbs are around a 500$ problem.

When you consider that you'll need to replace the float needle seats / O-ring / needle and they hit about 45$ a pop last time I looked....
#20 on this link....https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d3bd74f870021958f26de4/carburetor-model-w-x-y
And for what its worth.... if you nick that O-ring on reinstall, thats a whole buggery of bs......

So, 200$ pissing in the dark.... vs just getting a hold of Chris Hunt...... I don't know what #20 is on the mikuni parts catalog or it'd look it up and tell you its price straight from them... But thats just one small example of the headache of non experienced carb DIY....

Inno to me its a no brainier, but all I can say. If you do indeed want to bugger with that on your own, rite on, but be prepared for a nightmare and eventually throwing in the towel and needing to send them to the guru anyway..... It's cheaper on your pocket to just send them to him from the get go and get to riding sooner..... vs paying to try yourself, then paying to have him fix w/e you end up buggering up.

You can also search the srad forums all day long seeing examples where ppl do what your about to do, take apart the carbs, think they did right, and for the life of them just cant figure it out....
... It usually turns out they take it to their local shop and complain about not seeing their bike again for weeks/months.....
....Or they take the rack to a local shop they think will do right and doesn't just work out....
....Or they actually knew what they were doing and quickly respond , nevermind got it sorted....
....Or they contact Chris Hunt......


Anyrate, best of luck...
 

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I agree if you can get Chris to do them that's a real good route, they can be a massive headache and he will do the all the bench adjustments so close its plug and play, ready to ride you can do the final carb sync when you gt time or money..

does he still work at the motorcycle place he as working at or? or flipped him an email a year ago or so and he mailed me back..

best bet there if you can get him to do em

..
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.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Por15 kit was the goto kit for fixing a shoddy tank once upon a time....

If fuel is coming out the tubes from the back of the tank itself, it's likely the pipes themselves have been rusted threw on the inside of the tank somewhere.... Test by blocking the breather holes under the fuel cap (remove the fuel cap/lock from the tank itself) Take the tube and try to blow air threw it with blocking the holes from the top of the of the tank... If you can get air threw with blocking it, it's a pretty good indicated you've got a bad pipe within the tank itself... Could just plug the leaking one, or have a brave shop weld it shut on the backside. They are breathers, so it'll just boil down to how you want to handle it. Oh and If it holds a seal when testing, might just be your fuel cap orange rubber thing may have worn out letting fuel pass easily when it expands.

If your pockets are deep , you could go this route and just replace the tank with a new one that wont rust:

This is a quick way to have peace of mind for the petcock/fuel pump:
&

Chris Hunt / ccmhunt - would be the guy to toss your carb rack to have it fully rebuilt and drop in ready to go once ya get it back.

What else...?
So I finally got around to testing the tank (as for the carb still calling around to see if someone will do it) and when I block the hole underneath the gas cap (not the orange rubber thing there's another hole on the side) it does not pass air within the tank which is a good sign. So you are saying that if it holds pressure when blocked off its good and would be the orange thing that's bad? Or the gas cap seal itself?
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I agree if you can get Chris to do them that's a real good route, they can be a massive headache and he will do the all the bench adjustments so close its plug and play, ready to ride you can do the final carb sync when you gt time or money..

does he still work at the motorcycle place he as working at or? or flipped him an email a year ago or so and he mailed me back..

best bet there if you can get him to do em

..
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.
I found an old school carb service on eBay for these carbs maybe him? Messaged them still no reply yet
 

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I'm kinda confused how your connecting the fuel tank breather spots to reffering to the #1 cylinder manifold fuel leaks... Are they one and the same leak? or do you have multiple fuel leaks?
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Inregards to the top of the tank and rear of the tank:

2 tubes on the rear of the tank both go to the gas cap area.

1 goes to the one you blocked off and didnt get air to pass when blowing the other end (woohoo not rusted threw)
Other one does go to that orange rubber spot in your last photo, same thing, blow the other tube, blocking that orange hole, if air passes then there is a leak. In the case of that spot, if you don't remove the gas cap entirely, you wont know if the leak is the rubber, or if the tube is rusted threw inside the tank itself.
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At anycase, if both are in good condition... and the arse end of your tank is wet with fuel.... then try and see if the fuel pump gasket itself is leaking (sometimes can leak threw the mount bolts if someone tried to install too long of a bolt/or the tank rusted threw the top of the bulge... Or the petcock may be leaking..... And the links I provided above should remedy fuel tank pump mount and petcock leaks.

Such as if your petcock doesn't do it's job it will fill and gravity pressure to the float bowls, if the needle seats and needles are not perfect or float height adjusted wrong they will seep fuel into the cylinders and will ultimately put fuel into your oil sump....

*Also if you connected up the lines wrong, it could put fuel in funny places.....but giving the benefit of the doubt..... and if all above cases are not the problem, the only other place is somewhere on the carb rack itself.... and sending them to Chris hunt will resolve that....
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On the carb rack itself.... Aside from the float bowls, there are tubes with orings between each carb bowl and if those o-rings wear out they can piss fuel down and on the outside of your manifolds, same can occur from a completely fuel stuffed carb rack (from a failed petcock) but out of different holes / gaps on the carb's.... Again, sending the carbs to Chris will resolve that problem....
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If your situation is filling the cylinder with fuel, you do not want to engage your starter when your engine is in a Hydrolocked state (full of Fuel).... It sucks and costs you the total cost of doing a oil change everytime it occurs....

.... The above mentioned getting new tank or doing a kit like POR15, replacing fuel pump, gasket, petcock from cobramadness, and sending the carbs to Chris is kinda the whole manual to repairing a Srad....

The only thing left would be to go over every wire of the harness, double check every nut and bolt with a torque wrench referencing the service manual and torque tables (remember run on torque), and buy a mofset kit from roadstercycle.com ... Kit with relay / wiring / and mounting bracket is pretty slick.....

Beyond that...... I mean, its cosmetics and routine stuff like tires / chain / sprockets / suspension ....

Oh and the last thing, MCCT manual cam chain tensioner..... Okay beyond that then the fun stuff occurs....
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I agree if you can get Chris to do them that's a real good route, they can be a massive headache and he will do the all the bench adjustments so close its plug and play, ready to ride you can do the final carb sync when you gt time or money..

does he still work at the motorcycle place he as working at or? or flipped him an email a year ago or so and he mailed me back..

best bet there if you can get him to do em

..
\
.
I found an old school carb service on eBay for these carbs maybe him? Messaged them still no reply yet
I'm kinda confused how your connecting the fuel tank breather spots to reffering to the #1 cylinder manifold fuel leaks... Are they one and the same leak? or do you have multiple fuel leaks?
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Inregards to the top of the tank and rear of the tank:

2 tubes on the rear of the tank both go to the gas cap area.

1 goes to the one you blocked off and didnt get air to pass when blowing the other end (woohoo not rusted threw)
Other one does go to that orange rubber spot in your last photo, same thing, blow the other tube, blocking that orange hole, if air passes then there is a leak. In the case of that spot, if you don't remove the gas cap entirely, you wont know if the leak is the rubber, or if the tube is rusted threw inside the tank itself.
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At anycase, if both are in good condition... and the arse end of your tank is wet with fuel.... then try and see if the fuel pump gasket itself is leaking (sometimes can leak threw the mount bolts if someone tried to install too long of a bolt/or the tank rusted threw the top of the bulge... Or the petcock may be leaking..... And the links I provided above should remedy fuel tank pump mount and petcock leaks.

Such as if your petcock doesn't do it's job it will fill and gravity pressure to the float bowls, if the needle seats and needles are not perfect or float height adjusted wrong they will seep fuel into the cylinders and will ultimately put fuel into your oil sump....

*Also if you connected up the lines wrong, it could put fuel in funny places.....but giving the benefit of the doubt..... and if all above cases are not the problem, the only other place is somewhere on the carb rack itself.... and sending them to Chris hunt will resolve that....
--------------
On the carb rack itself.... Aside from the float bowls, there are tubes with orings between each carb bowl and if those o-rings wear out they can piss fuel down and on the outside of your manifolds, same can occur from a completely fuel stuffed carb rack (from a failed petcock) but out of different holes / gaps on the carb's.... Again, sending the carbs to Chris will resolve that problem....
------------

If your situation is filling the cylinder with fuel, you do not want to engage your starter when your engine is in a Hydrolocked state (full of Fuel).... It sucks and costs you the total cost of doing a oil change everytime it occurs....

.... The above mentioned getting new tank or doing a kit like POR15, replacing fuel pump, gasket, petcock from cobramadness, and sending the carbs to Chris is kinda the whole manual to repairing a Srad....

The only thing left would be to go over every wire of the harness, double check every nut and bolt with a torque wrench referencing the service manual and torque tables (remember run on torque), and buy a mofset kit from roadstercycle.com ... Kit with relay / wiring / and mounting bracket is pretty slick.....

Beyond that...... I mean, its cosmetics and routine stuff like tires / chain / sprockets / suspension ....

Oh and the last thing, MCCT manual cam chain tensioner..... Okay beyond that then the fun stuff occurs....
Ya my bad I meant to say that the two leaks were unrelated to each other. The petcock seems to be the culprit maybe? Pump sock and seal has been replaced and I narrowed it down to the internal breather piping being OK (thank god cuz tanks are expensive) so it could lead me to believe that it could be the petcock. Is it fine to buy an ebay?(never a good question) or is it more reasonable to buy a rebuild kit? If so where can I find one? As for the carb u already know I am sending it to ur boy haha
 

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Cobramadness is a reputable person to buy from I’d say.... he was an heavily active member here .... the next best alternative is buying straight from a oem parts dealer or your local Suzuki shop... and those bits are not cheap
 

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I don’t know of the eBay carb service your referring to on eBay... usually when things are too good to be true, they aren’t.

ultimately Chris Hunt is the best option. And if your seeking a cheaper option just express that to Chris himself.... He will do the job correctly and charge you flat out what it costs...

I don’t know what he currently would charge but it sure as hell won’t be a scam, I can’t say that for anything else you might find.

For what it’s worth... most everything that gets recommended in here on the srad section by the active members is experienced advice.... most of it hard learned...
 

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So I finally got around to testing the tank (as for the carb still calling around to see if someone will do it) and when I block the hole underneath the gas cap (not the orange rubber thing there's another hole on the side) it does not pass air within the tank which is a good sign. So you are saying that if it holds pressure when blocked off its good and would be the orange thing that's bad? Or the gas cap seal itself? View attachment 570176 View attachment 570178 View attachment 570179
dood, that tank is NASTY!

get yourself a few gallon of evaporust at that one place the tool place..

if the pump looks good remove and cap off the hole..

if the pump is bad leave it in and de-rust it.. get a new gasket, filter sock and pump motor, anything else that's bad

you pour in the evaporust and let it sit 24 hours, if you don't have enough to fill the tank flip it over wait another 24 hours all that rust is gone, rinse well with gasoline, then fill so it wont rust again, sitting makes these tank rust, so you either have to keep em full or dry and mothballed..

best bet if its getting winterized and sitting for months and you are not going to run it is to fill the tank with race fuel that has NO ETHANOL

make sure your petcock works if not clamp it off lightly with a vice grip so it wont ruin the hose, use some tape you just need to pinch it so fuel wont leak, then remove the float bowl screws and let all the fuel out

then try to start it, suck anything fuel out of the carbs, then you have to store it proper.. you cant leave it out side or anywhere there is not a vapor barrier beneath the bike! so if you do not know if your cement floor has a vapor barrier best to lay down a thick mill of visqueen, they began using vapor barriers on concrete slabs around the mid to late 70's..

if there is a question lay some down, then cover the bike and maybe throw a few moisture suckers down by the carbs to grab any moisture out of the air..

if you are outside int he dirt lay down 2 layers of visqueen, this grabs the condensation and lay is on the visqueen not your bike, you will see without a vapor barrier that in the morning the condensation is on top of the cover, with a vapor barrier its on the barrier it wont make it up to your bike, you sealed it off..

I'm sure we have all seen dew on a grass lawn or golf course in the morning, that has to do with the warming and cooling, so it condensates, if you put something on the grass like a golf cart you will see the golf cart has the condensation, move the cart and beneath it is dry.. the vapors always migrate to the very top of whatever it is and it doesn't matter what it is..

they began putting vapor barriers down under homes and garages cuz they realized that condensation was molding and causing health issues, it would really gather at aluminum frame windows, closets that get no ventilation would mildew, attics, why every roof has so many vents now..

left outside in a parking lot they have no vapor barriers so you have to lay one down.. older homes? yup..

however this freeking crap gas they sell us with ethanol is a death sentence for carbed anything, alcohol (methanol) apparently has the ability to snatch water molecules from the air like Houdini from a straight jacket..

so even vapor barriers are no match for ethanol in gas and carbs... why I say fill with race, it has no alcohol, like 101, have an airport near? aviation fuel any of that.. a race track usually has a few pumps with like 101 or 111.. its a must for storing, then drain them carbs and suck out any remains by turning over the motor, let it burn up any vapors remaining..

one cannot emphasis this enough.. if you are riding it and not storing it? run it at least once a week and keep topped off, race fuel is best, bounce the bike in place so the gas can wash around, rinse any moisture away off the inside your tank..

I completely restored my FI 750 tank and fuel pump, re-plated it, the works, and like a dummy I let the fuel get low, didn't matter tho, rust took over even below the fuel line..

now I have to do it all over again, before I can even start it.. really sucks, I just finished my 600 for the 3rd time, now I start it once a week no matter, and mover it around ride it if I can.. gonna fill it with race.. tired of the rebuilding and de-rusting... UUGGHHH
 
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