[SparkyMJ]

Hey folks,

Quick one for ya. I recently did a bunch of work on the front of my K4 750. I don't know if this noise was there before but it is here now, because I didn't really own the bike before this service. I changed the wheel bearings, head bearings with All Balls tapered, tires, and a local shop rebuild my forks.

When I ride over bumps or compress the forks by hand, there is a click. Kinda loud too. Even without holding the front brake or braking, noise persists, it is not the floating rotor buttons. When I jack the front end up in the air, there is zero play or slop in the head bearing, and it moves perfectly smooth. I took my steering damper off to deduce things, no difference, but it is still off. It's not bodywork either, I thought it might have been a fairing but I am confident it is not.

I followed the manual steps to a T. The bike rides perfect otherwise. I've seen some stories online where people had these symptoms, and some of them just fixed it by tightening the head bearing a tad more. I actually played with the forks outside of the bike when I had them off, and compressed them with my bodyweight and nothing seemed to make any noise or anything unusual.

Think it might just be my head bearing? Anyone else have symptoms like this and have it be something else?

Thanks in advance.
-Mike

 

[TheGeek]

Show someone else how to reproduce. Then you can move freely and listen. You'll be able to get close to the area, and then use a mechanic's stethoscope to pinpoint it. Could be anything at this point. You've done a pretty good job of systematically trying to find it, but you need to take it a step further.

 

[SparkyMJ]

Yeah stethoscope sounds like a good idea.

The manual also has a routine torque check for a bunch of fasteners at mileage intervals, and it does say to check the steering head bearing collar torque routinely. Maybe the bearing got slightly more seated after some miles.

I'll probably start by slightly tightening the head bearing and see if it made a difference. If not, I'll borrow a scope and see if the issue is in the forks, or maybe in my new bearings or what have you...

Thanks for the tip.
-Mike

 

[Mb1500]

Why was all of this work done at the same time? Was the bike down or wrecked?

Without knowing what it actually sounds like the forks can make a strange noise if the triple clamps are tweaked or if they weren’t evenly torqued to spec when the forks were reinstalled. Also if the fork legs were not installed square / loose pinch bolts on the axle the fork legs will try to move square when loaded. Could be something internal on the forks but unlikely since you tested them separately off the bike
Hopefully it isn’t the new head bearing but I prefer OEM on the majority of replacement parts.
Good luck pinpointing the issue, mechanic stethoscope is probably your best bet as mentioned.

 

[SparkyMJ]

The bike had sat in a lady's yard for about a decade. It was just in poor condition, but no signs of a crash or anything worse than a drop. The head bearings were damaged when I got the bike as well. It was part of a restoration.

I did follow the front suspension assembly steps in the manual to a T. The steps ensure that the triple clamps are aligned, pinch bolts tightened in the right order, fork height set with a caliper, I torque checked the axle pinch bolts.

I went with the All Balls head bearing because I've used them on my other bikes with zero issues. They might have been slightly harder to set the tension on than standard ball bearings, but the end result is great and the durability is good. It is interesting though, someone else on here said the same sentiment, maybe it was actually you (The sentiment that OEM head bearings work better than All Balls on this bike). So if it is my new head bearings, no big deal, I'll change them out again, but I suspect they aren't damaged, probably just incorrect tension, and then I just need to re-lock in the top triple clamp after an adjustment.

I will adjust the bearing tension this evening, and see if the clicking at least changes. If it affects the noise, then I've probably got my answer. If not, then I think I'm gonna bring my forks back to the shop who rebuilt them and do a warranty claim.... If it is the forks, at least the repair should be free.

Only so many things it can be. I have checked extremely closely also to make sure its not cables or harnesses, it is not.

I'll update tonight/tomorrow. What a weird thing. Thanks for the input folks, more appreciated.

-Mike

 

[BillV]

"a local shop rebuild my forks"
What exactly did they do? Years ago I had my cartriges replaced by AK-20's. Afterwards the biggest difference was a gurgling sound over low speed bumps. I suspect it was there at other speeds but the engine & wind noise obscured it. Later I changed to NIX 30 mm cartridges and, in addition to an immediate improvement in damping, the gurgling was gone. Possibly you're experiencing something similar.

 

[boostenlebaron]

Sounds like a problem I had on my bike years ago. It was driving me mad. I went so far as to take apart my forks again to double check everything. All new bearings everywhere, things torqued again etc. Turned out it was a combination of my motor mount through bolt and pinch bolt on my slider and I only found it because I was replacing them. I never would have figured it out otherwise.

 

[SparkyMJ]

So I checked and ever so slightly tightened my head bearing. No dice.

It feels like both forks are making the sound together as well, not coming from just one side or one fork tube. I may check my sliders as well, thanks for the mention on that. Can't hurt to check.

The shop changed my fork oil, and main fork seals. They said my bushings were in good shape, and replaced what was needed. They put the recommended weight oil into the forks as well. I trust that this shop did the job correctly, I was recommended them by club racers and fellow street riders alike.

I am wondering if the noise is normal. I have the same experience as you Bill, in which the noise is audible at low speed, but once I am moving and going, couldn't possibly hear such a thing. Odd yours was a 'gurgling', mine isn't like that. But I am thinking that since the sound comes from both forks, and the sound only happens when the fork stops compressing, and transitions to extending. The sound doesn't happen at just the top or bottom of the stroke, and the sound varies how hard I pump the forks. I feel like the noise may just be the internal one-way valves shutting hard and making a noise, kinda like how some faucets make noise when you shut them off quickly... Thoughts?

Any you folks think that is possible? The shop also did my suspension baseline, and I forget if I mentioned it already, but the fork damping screws and preload all seemed to work exactly as expected. So I don't think anything catastrophic has happened in my forks, and since both forks appear to behave the same, I would be inclined to believe the rebuild and oil change didn't have any mistakes in the process. The tech doing my baseline setup handled the forks a lot and didn't say or notice anything either, and it was dead quiet in the shop. I bet if I pointed it out he would have noticed, but he didn't notice on his own.

I can absolutely live with the noise, I just want to make sure the forks are safe and working well. They do ride great, no adverse handling. Sound is either inaudible or stops happening at higher speeds with bigger bumps.

Thoughts?
-Mike

 

[peter079]

I've got the same model bike and mine has always clicked too. It's most noticeable in the mornings
when it's cold and I just start off. Going over a few low speed kerbs/ speed bumps/ pot holes etc.

After I've been riding for a while, it seems to go away. I rebuilt my shocks about 4 years ago(seals only), but it was still doing it after. Not sure what it is yet.

 

[SparkyMJ]

Thanks for chiming in, and I am glad to hear someone else has a similar experience. That is reassuring. Maybe you are right, maybe the sound seems to go away as you ride a bit, maybe the oil slightly warms up or what have you. Thanks for sharing your experience!
-Mike

 

[TheGeek]

I had a click inthe BPF that came on my 2013. Always annoyed me. Apparently it was a trait of this particular fork design. Something with the valve floating a bit to reduce stiction.

 

[nick49]

You mention, "When I ride over bumps or compress the forks by hand, there is a click. Kinda loud too."

I'd say it's not normal, take the bike back to the shop that did the work and let the wrench that did the work hear it.

 

[Clipper]

I went with the All Balls head bearing because I've used them on my other bikes with zero issues. They might have been slightly harder to set the tension on than standard ball bearings, but the end result is great and the durability is good. It is interesting though, someone else on here said the same sentiment, maybe it was actually you (The sentiment that OEM head bearings work better than All Balls on this bike). So if it is my new head bearings, no big deal, I'll change them out again, but I suspect they aren't damaged, probably just incorrect tension, and then I just need to re-lock in the top triple clamp after an adjustment.

-Mike

That was me, but I share Mb1500's sentiment wrt to OEM bearings after the difficulties I had with the roller type. I don't know why I had so much grief trying to get them right on the GSXR, its probably unfair to blame the manufacturer, but TBH it does sound like you're embarking on the same journey whih led me to rip them out and go OEM (which has given me zero problems).

That said, you need to find out if it is steering bearing related or not before changing stuff.

Can you upload a video?

 

[SparkyMJ]

I have a video, I'll see if I can post it somewhere and share a link. The video makes the click sound really loud.

I am finding it very hard to believe it would be the head bearings at this point. I tightened them a tad, and no difference. The head feels perfect. It's stable in every way, has no binding, makes no sounds when moving the bars back and forth with the wheel on the ground or not. It feels just like my 300's All Balls set. And I actually have experienced what loose/noisy head bearings feels like, and the ways to detect it, and this feeling on my 750 just isn't that in every way. I wouldn't mind doing the swap if it fixed it, but I don't have any reason to think that at all anymore. The shop did a multi-point inspection on the bike too when I brought in the fully assembled motorcycle, and they were very thorough, and through the MPI and suspension setup where I was even standing there with the guy, they didn't notice anything wrong either.

What exactly did you say your problem was with the tapered rollers in your GSX-R? Poor front feel, noise, binding, looseness?

I think I may swing by the shop again and just have them take a listen. Wouldn't hurt, should be free if something is amiss. I really do wonder if like TheGeek said that the design has the valving slightly loose, and mine just happen to be louder than most, but are working right. I am inclined to believe this due to the nature of the noise based on my findings.

I guess the revised title of my thread should be Front fork noise when forks rebound too.

If there are forks that exist that 'make noise by design' then I am less worried. I was just under the impression that forks should only make 'hydraulic' or smooth gliding sounds and nothing else, but I am hearing that that is not exactly true.

Thoughts?
-Mike

 

[Mb1500]

Post to YouTube then link it here, I think that would help a lot.
Re-reading your description makes me wonder what fork seals the shop used. If they aren’t OEM they make have more friction than normal and cause a noise when the direction of the tube is changed. Wouldn’t hurt to loosen up the front axle, push on the front end holding the front brake to center the fork legs and then re-tighten everything.

 

[Clipper]

Yeah, we are guessing a bit with this. I also doubt that it is steering bearings related, but as they say, once bitten, twice shy.

But to answer your question about my experience with the steering bearings:

When I put the taper rollers from All Balls in my GSXR the steering was binding straight away, as if they were over-tightened, even though using a spring scale on the end of the handlebar with the damper removed showed that the steering started to move with the correct force.
I took it all apart again and regreased and readjusted but the result was the same; apparently OK in the garage but unrideable out on the road. By loosening the stem nuts I was able to remove the binding feeling when riding straight or steering slightly (it got quite scary in high speed open turns), but that loosening of the nuts always introduced a bit of play.

I spent a few weekends hoisting the front and making ever tinier tweeks to the stem nuts, but I was totally unable to get that "sweet spot" of no binding, no play. So I decided that the only way to be sure that there wasn't a different issue involved was to replace them again, so I put in the Suzuki OEM ball sets and bingo, perfect steering first time.

Maybe just a coincidence, maybe my own mechanical ineptitude (although I have succesfully installed roller steering bearings in many bikes previously, this is my 3rd GSXR 750), or maybe a faulty batch of rollers, who knows...

 

[TheGeek]

You can never hear what needs to be heard in a YouTube video. First, the audio quality sucks. Second, only the poster is in tune with the machine to pick out the sound.

I basically have the same fork on my k5 600. I know it very well. I might be able to hear the sound, but it could be anything from a true problem to the clutch cable hitting something.

 

[SparkyMJ]

I will indeed upload the video here soon. Internet at the office is having a bad time...

Might be right about non OEM fork seals. I bet they did that, I have seen their inventory of seals. Might be the case.

As for the axle and stuff, yeah I've rebuilt the whole front end and replaced the bearings. I have re-seated the axle/forks pinchbolt maybe 4 times now, it feels perfect.

I took the bike out again last night and practiced some emergency braking to see how well all the new brakes are doing, and it all felt perfect under hard braking. Again, no noise while braking, but the noise may be slightly audible as the forks come back up right when I come to a stop.

Video to come soon. But yeah good point, Youtube audio is terrible, and I basically touched the phone to the forks to get the loudest sound possible. I'll get it online soon.

Thanks folks.
-Mike

 

[Clipper]

I hate to sound like a broken record but... I did my fork seals a few years ago with aftermarket seals, a few months later they were leaking again.

Replaced them with OEM Suzuki seals and have done the whole season without issues.

Some things are fine to buy aftermarket, but others, OEM quality counts.

 

[SparkyMJ]

I absolutely agree. Although, my shop chose the components, and if there is a problem I will just bring it back and demand a fix.

Get there when I get there though. Who knows, I may have no issues. I have used SKF seals on my Ninja, and they never leaked. But I did put OEM on the next time around and also have no issues. I may call the shop and just have them pull the records and tell me what exactly went in.

-Mike