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Discussion Starter #1
Background....

I was talking with a guy that works for a reasonably large motorcycle dealership, and the subject of new riders came up. I asked over a few beers at a superbowl party, a few questions about new riders and motorcycles.....

Over the past couple of years, he estimated tha they had sold about 150 Sportsbikes to riders with no experience ie as their first bike.

Of these, about 90 where 600's the rest mainly 1000's or 750's, with a few 900's thrown in for good measure.

Bikes returned crashed within 3 months around 120
thats 80% !!!

Of those nearly all where written off by the insurance companies. A couple where subsequently sold by the dealer after repairs.

Of the crashed bikes, over half where 750/ 900/1000's, again this is almost all of the > 600cc machines.

One of the orignal 150 was repo'd with under 20 miles on the clock after three months.

Of the bikes that where crashed, about twenty had less than 100 miles on the clocks.

This is obviously crazy, so I asked why they let these guys buy bikes, and he basically said (without quoting) that their money is just as good as anyone elses, and if they tell people that they are better to buy smaller, they will just go and buy the same bike elsewhere ???

He told me a story of a kid that bought a brand new 1000cc sportsbike, and looped it in the parking lot, trying to pull away, it was repaired, and it was back in the shop within three days because it "fell off the stand" obviously at about 50mph because the stator cover and left side fairing was ground down to dust
The kid later traded the wreckage for a new 954 as it was a better handling bike, despite having 2" strips on the wreck.

He also told me that the shops favourite rider is one that does not do anything to his/her bike, the can get away with charging exactly what they like - a brand new 600 rider was charged $300 for a new chain because he did not lube it. AT THE FIRST SERVICE. Then they charged him for a new rear because of uneven wear (middle).

I am not sure just now typical this is, or even how much of it was bullshit - he had been drinking fairly heavily after all, but maybe some other dealers will tell us stories to offset this one.
 

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unfortunately you are correct. dealers think: why not sell a newbie a 1000? if they don't buy it from us they'll still buy it so why shoudn't i profit from it? better me than you mentality... much as i hate to say it the u.s. would be better off with tiered licensing... but thats just my 0.02, too many inexperienced riders getting 1000's or busa's so they can be the MAN.bigger is better? right?? RIGHT??? even though they have zero idea how to ride.
 

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Those stat estimations actually come as no surprise.

Just his morning, a co-worker was asking me about my bike. He is always looking at the possibility of getting one... I recommended to him the SV650, but according to him, he would rather buy a used gixxer, if he was going to bang it up.... the SV650 was just not as cool as the gixxer. ....

We can all understand his point of view... I am willing to bet that most people interested in Sportbikes want just that: a Sportbike. Not a watered down version.

I think that the best solution is regulatory, just like many other countries outside the U.S.... I particularly like Japan's 250 and 400cc limitations ..... on top of this, they can buy 400cc Gixxers if they want... you see that's the way to go in the interest of rider and public safety, as well as keeping insurance costs low.

I wonder if the U.S. law makers/citizens will ever wake up to this reality.... rather than WAIT for the statistics to get really bad, they should just learn from other countries' tried and proven stats.

Another good way around it from a non-regulatory point of view is for the bike makers to produce an SV650 type of bike that has the APPEAL and LOOKS of a nice looking sportbike, but not carrying as much power.... but it seems to me that the bike manufacturers are unwilling to produce such a bike.

[ 01-28-2003, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: migz123 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Bumped....
 

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it should be some sort of tiered liscensing system. but as for the dealers and salesmen...i think as long as they try to discourage new riders from getting such a powerful machine ie: gix6,7,1K, and the new riders insist on it, then what can you do? it's true..their money is just as good as anyone else's. they need to make sales, but hopefully it's not at the expense of someone's life (newbies).
 

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Not all dealers act this way, but most do no doubt. My dealer is very strict on who they sell any GSXR to-they may not sell a ton of gixxers, but they do sell a number of Sv's, Katana's, and Bandits because they talk sense into the rider. Then they get repeat business down the road as the new rider acquires the much needed skills to ride a full on sportbike like the GSXR's. If the shop cared about not only money today but also down the road I would think that this selling apporach would seem better, but like many people they are after the instant gratification that expensive sportbikes give, and dont' really care if the rider lives to become a repeat customer.

-Spooner
 

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Originally posted by Spooner:
Not all dealers act this way, but most do no doubt. My dealer is very strict on who they sell any GSXR to-they may not sell a ton of gixxers, but they do sell a number of Sv's, Katana's, and Bandits because they talk sense into the rider. Then they get repeat business down the road as the new rider acquires the much needed skills to ride a full on sportbike like the GSXR's. If the shop cared about not only money today but also down the road I would think that this selling apporach would seem better, but like many people they are after the instant gratification that expensive sportbikes give, and dont' really care if the rider lives to become a repeat customer.

-Spooner
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate to say it, BUT...maybe in some areas, a dealer can still survive if he/she turns away a sale..and ya can't always talk a new rider into a smaller bike..been there, done that..At least here in so. cali..it's a VERY competitve market..and being that salespeople are all on comission, no sell...no eat..so it's kind of a double edge sword...granted that a salesperson that has any integrity should NOT sell a new rider a 1k, 750..ect..but, they do have to make a living..I'm NOT saying it's right...So what's the answer to this..? I've alway been in favor of tiered lic...that would cure it for sure..but then..what if it limited the # of new riders..? because they would have to start on a smaller bike, would the manufactures oppose the tiered method..? It all comes down to $$$$$ shitty sa it may be...Be nice if someone would step up to the plate, and at least..introduce some legislation that would/could help..
 

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I agree Hammer that many shops cannot get away with that type of practice. My dealer is in a smaller town and most of their business come from MX bikes and quads-sportbikes are a small part of their business but it is growing rapidly. Also the sales people dont' get commission because they are all family


I do agree that a stepped licence is a great idea because it will help the street scene grow with better riders who hopefully ride more resposibly because they are educated better. I think that MSF should be required as well, but maybe make it more intensive. All I know is that I am sick of all the new riders out there that have no clue whats going on. And its not all their fault because they probably don't have anyone that gives 2 cents about them telling them what the ins and outs are of riding and safety.

-Spooner
 

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Originally posted by Hammer 4:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spooner:
Not all dealers act this way, but most do no doubt. My dealer is very strict on who they sell any GSXR to-they may not sell a ton of gixxers, but they do sell a number of Sv's, Katana's, and Bandits because they talk sense into the rider. Then they get repeat business down the road as the new rider acquires the much needed skills to ride a full on sportbike like the GSXR's. If the shop cared about not only money today but also down the road I would think that this selling apporach would seem better, but like many people they are after the instant gratification that expensive sportbikes give, and dont' really care if the rider lives to become a repeat customer.

-Spooner
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate to say it, BUT...maybe in some areas, a dealer can still survive if he/she turns away a sale..and ya can't always talk a new rider into a smaller bike..been there, done that..At least here in so. cali..it's a VERY competitve market..and being that salespeople are all on comission, no sell...no eat..so it's kind of a double edge sword...granted that a salesperson that has any integrity should NOT sell a new rider a 1k, 750..ect..but, they do have to make a living..I'm NOT saying it's right...So what's the answer to this..? I've alway been in favor of tiered lic...that would cure it for sure..but then..what if it limited the # of new riders..? because they would have to start on a smaller bike, would the manufactures oppose the tiered method..? It all comes down to $$$$$ shitty sa it may be...Be nice if someone would step up to the plate, and at least..introduce some legislation that would/could help..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i too think the tier thing would help, but on the other hand, once the government starts implementing things like that what will they implement next...street bikes governed to 65mph?? maybe not but once they start somewhere they will continue to make it rougher for us. IMHO
 

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Originally posted by gixerking:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Hammer 4:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spooner:
Not all dealers act this way, but most do no doubt. My dealer is very strict on who they sell any GSXR to-they may not sell a ton of gixxers, but they do sell a number of Sv's, Katana's, and Bandits because they talk sense into the rider. Then they get repeat business down the road as the new rider acquires the much needed skills to ride a full on sportbike like the GSXR's. If the shop cared about not only money today but also down the road I would think that this selling apporach would seem better, but like many people they are after the instant gratification that expensive sportbikes give, and dont' really care if the rider lives to become a repeat customer.

-Spooner
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate to say it, BUT...maybe in some areas, a dealer can still survive if he/she turns away a sale..and ya can't always talk a new rider into a smaller bike..been there, done that..At least here in so. cali..it's a VERY competitve market..and being that salespeople are all on comission, no sell...no eat..so it's kind of a double edge sword...granted that a salesperson that has any integrity should NOT sell a new rider a 1k, 750..ect..but, they do have to make a living..I'm NOT saying it's right...So what's the answer to this..? I've alway been in favor of tiered lic...that would cure it for sure..but then..what if it limited the # of new riders..? because they would have to start on a smaller bike, would the manufactures oppose the tiered method..? It all comes down to $$$$$ shitty sa it may be...Be nice if someone would step up to the plate, and at least..introduce some legislation that would/could help..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i too think the tier thing would help, but on the other hand, once the government starts implementing things like that what will they implement next...street bikes governed to 65mph?? maybe not but once they start somewhere they will continue to make it rougher for us. IMHO</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True..but we have to start somewhere..? I don't think they could go as far as to limit bikes to 65mph...they would have to do the same with cages..If we/they do nothing..the end result will be..hurt/dead riders. Wrecked bikes, and with that, guess what else follows..? Higher insurance rates..
Ya know I was just thinking how things were when I started riding, and racing..all this carnage was unheard of..sure there were accidents, but NOTHING like it is today, and if that's true, what is the cause.? has to be because of the mega powered bikes..IMHO..At the very least, make NEW riders start out on something no larger than a 500.,I'd rather see it be a 250..even a 500 is a start.
 

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That figure of 80% is very close to the figure i got from a yamaha employee here in South Africa. When the R1 came out 75 % of all purchased R1's were back in the shop within 6 months with crash damage ,, experiences an newbie riders though.

cheers
 

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I agree about getting a busa as a first bike is silly stupid, but Im a stong believer in the freedom of choice and the fact that we live in the good ol' USofA for a reason(well, aside from the Canadian people). I like the ability to be able to think for my self and get what I want when I want to. If people want to go out and kill them selves on an R1 for their first bike, I think that's their choice and "Big Brother" should have no say either way. Darwins law is alive, well and working strong. This country has turned into a bunch of whinning sissies that constantly worrie about other people. Smoking kills, No gun, bla bla bla...Just let me live my life my way PLEASE! and if I do kill myself doing somthing stupid, then that's my own damn fault.

/rantmode -off
 

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Originally posted by SlowKat:
I agree about getting a busa as a first bike is silly stupid, but Im a stong believer in the freedom of choice and the fact that we live in the good ol' USofA for a reason(well, aside from the Canadian people). I like the ability to be able to think for my self and get what I want when I want to. If people want to go out and kill them selves on an R1 for their first bike, I think that's their choice and "Big Brother" should have no say either way. Darwins law is alive, well and working strong. This country has turned into a bunch of whinning sissies that constantly worrie about other people. Smoking kills, No gun, bla bla bla...Just let me live my life my way PLEASE! and if I do kill myself doing somthing stupid, then that's my own damn fault.

/rantmode -off
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, but..in the process, all these Darwin bikes, and riders are costing YOU, and all of us $$$$ in insurance rates..And seriously, do you really want new riders to get seriously hurt, or worse..? Ya don't have to be a whinner to try and help save lives....
 
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