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Well I have been doing a ton of research, reading everything I can find about oil, oil quality and best brands. I know this topic always turns into a heated debate. I am going to be putting my bike away for winter and want to change the oil before I do. I have 2000 miles on my K8 600 and have been using Suzuki brand oil for all of the services up till this point. While I am confident the Suzuki brand is good, I am sure there is better. I am looking for a synthetic to help with smoothing out shifts and offering good cold and hot weather protection. I know all of the major brands of synthetic are good and meet all of the necessary standards. I cant find a single thread or discussion indicating that poor quality oil lead to motor or clutch failure on these bikes, seems like most people either wreck their bikes or sell em before they even get enough miles on them to think about long engine life. I plan on keeping my bike a long time, so I want to make sure I get good protection out of my new oil choice. I dont want to spend a fortune, I can change the oil frequently as well, so extended drain intervals arent appealing to me. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Like I said I dont want this to turn into a debate, just curious as to what everyone else is using and just factual info (such as: made valvetrain quieter, shifts smoother, easier cold starts, etc).
 

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Chubby Chaser
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Well I have been doing a ton of research, reading everything I can find about oil, oil quality and best brands. I know this topic always turns into a heated debate.
Ehhh, more like beat to death, if you go through this particular sub-forum you'll find a thread like this is posted on at least a monthly basis.


I am going to be putting my bike away for winter and want to change the oil before I do. I have 2000 miles on my K8 600 and have been using Suzuki brand oil for all of the services up till this point. While I am confident the Suzuki brand is good, I am sure there is better.
If all you are doing is filling up the oil and parking it for the winter then there's no sense in putting anything other than what you've been using ;)


I am looking for a synthetic to help with smoothing out shifts
This is more of a product of proper technique than the kind of oil you put in your crankcase I've found.


and offering good cold and hot weather protection.
Pretty much all oils these days are multi-viscosity. Hence 5w-50, 10w-30, 15w-50. The two numbers are its cold and hot viscosity's. Here, read this, it will help you understand how it all works.

http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_oil_facts.html#OILFACTS_004



I know all of the major brands of synthetic are good and meet all of the necessary standards. I cant find a single thread or discussion indicating that poor quality oil lead to motor or clutch failure on these bikes, seems like most people either wreck their bikes or sell em before they even get enough miles on them to think about long engine life. I plan on keeping my bike a long time, so I want to make sure I get good protection out of my new oil choice. I dont want to spend a fortune, I can change the oil frequently as well, so extended drain intervals arent appealing to me. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Like I said I dont want this to turn into a debate, just curious as to what everyone else is using and just factual info (such as: made valvetrain quieter, shifts smoother, easier cold starts, etc).

Just keep reading this forum and you'll find what you need, hence the name "Oil and Lubrication".

Bottom line when it comes to changing oil, quantity is more important than quality I feel. As long as you are doing it freqently enough (since the motor and tranny share the same oil it degrades quicker) you're engine will be happy with you. Whether you want to use $15 a quart RepAmsObil oil or $13 a gallon Shell Rotella from Wally World (which is a great all around price/quality oil if you want my opinion) the oil is going to get polluted with metal flakes and crap from the clutch regardless.
 

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"I have 2000 miles on my K8 600 and have been using Suzuki brand oil for all of the services "

They honor the warranty based on that oil, why change?
 

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Read this several months ago. I realize amsoil paid for this test, but the tests are API tests and if the results were "inaccurate" amsoils' competitors (and their various fanboys on this site) would make a firm rebuttal of the results.

I'm shocked that motul's very expensive full synthetic failed the gear wear test miserably.

I switched from using maxima premium dinosaur 20/50 to amsoil 10/40 near the end of the summer. I immediately got a 15% increase in fuel mileage and my transmission shifts much, much better. I'm not exactly easy on my bike. There were some 1-2 shifts I made when I had the dino oil in my cases that were downright ugly because of the oil. After putting in the amsoil and making shifts that the dino oil would not hold I am totally sold on amsoil.

I sat down and figured it out cost wise. These costs' are based on where I live (West coast Canada). Where you live it may be different.

Amsoil versus shell Rotella T. The amsoil only costs' $11 more per 5000km oil change than Rotella, factoring in the fuel savings from a full synthetic. Rotella T uses a petroleum base stock and is less than 3% synthetic.

Shell Rotella T does not have any corrosion inhibiting additives in it. If your bike is ridden year round, not a big deal, but if it's sitting for 4-5 months it's definitely a factor. Shell Rotella can only maintain it's shear stability for less than half as long as amsoil, so technically you should change the Rotella @ 2500kms to maintain the same protection that amsoil WILL give for 5000+ kms. This makes sense because it you think about it the only gears in your average diesel engine are the ones driving the overhead cam in a typical straight six or V8, so maintaining shear stability (protecting the metal where gear teeth meet) is not a major priority in a diesel engine oil.

One unique thing about Rotella is that it has a high level of detergents, so it will keep the inside of your engine quite clean.

The bottom line is that Rotella is cheap because it's less than 3% synthetic.

I use amsoil, but you can't go wrong with mobil 1 motorcycle specific oil as well. Haven't seen it for sale around where I live though...

.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the input, I actually chose to go with the Mobil 1 4T motorcycle oil. I was reading some posts about peoples valvetrains becomming very noisy after using AMSOIL, almost as if the oil was too thin. I have used Mobil in my gasoline cars and trucks for years, always been a good product. Even comes in 2nd in the AMSOIL test. I dont care about extended drain intervals, I change the oil in the bike about every 1000-1500 miles anyway just becuase of its usage and frequent times of inactivity. I know many use Rotella in their bikes, but I am just not comfortable doing that. I use Chevron DELO 400LE in my F250 PowerStroke truck just because it also runs quieter than Rotella in my big diesel engine. I dont think I have really seen any cases of any oil causing a failure on these bikes, I think there may be some better choices long term, but if you dont plan keeping your bike long anyway, then it really doesnt matter. Its the next guys problem. I do plan on keeping my bike for as long as I can and I am kind of obsessive about maintenance because its so inexpensive relative to the cost of the bike, I dont mind "overdoing it" so to speak. Anyway, thanks again for the input, glad AMSOIL is working well for you.
 

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Whoa. Good information in this thread.

Boring. :D

LOL

--Wag--
 

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shell rotella ftw.nuff said
 

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Why would anyone use a diesel engne oil in a motorcycle? It is not compatible with gasoline engines or wet clutches! It goes into engines that rev to 3K. Ridiculous!
 

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Why would anyone use a diesel engne oil in a motorcycle? It is not compatible with gasoline engines or wet clutches! It goes into engines that rev to 3K. Ridiculous!
Here's why, novice dudes.

"Commercial (Diesel) Oil

The additive packages for C (commercial) certification are designed to promote engine life. The additive packages for C rated oils contain extra buffers and detergents to keep the engine clean and free of acids. C rated oils are far better than S oils at holding and dispersing combustion byproducts and other contaminants, and at not becoming acidic. Traditionally these oils are primarily used in diesel motors, which are very expensive and are expected to last a million miles or more. When an engine rebuild costs $10,000 - $15,000 and puts you out of work for a week or three, you don't mind paying a bit more for your oil. The C certification tests have been largely developed by Mack, Caterpillar, Detroit and Cummins to provide the additives necessary to keep these engines running a long time. The latest commercial certification is CI-4 Plus, which includes extra protection for high temperature high revving motors. Since it's designed for diesel motors, they don't care about no stinkin' catalytic thingies, and CAFE is a place where you get a cup of joe and a donut. CI-4 Plus differs from CI-4 with higher detergent requirements and better sheer stability. The shear stability is exactly what motorcycles need due to running the engine oil through the transmission.


Although C standards are changed every few years, the older standards are enhanced, not superceded. So, newer higher rated C oils are simply better than older lower rated oils.


Although few car owners test their oil regularly, most large trucking companies routinely do oil analysis on their diesel trucks. Used oils are checked for viscosity breakdown, for detergent and dispersant function, and for metal contamination that would indicate engine wear. C oils that don't measure up are quickly run off the market place. To prevent engine wear, the best strategy is to keep deposits off the pistons, rings, and bearings. Therefore, diesel oils typically contain half again more detergents, double the dispersants, and a much more expensive and robust VII package than S type oils. If you go to an auto parts store, convenience store, or grocery store, you'll see that there are dozens of brands of automotive oils, all claiming to be the best. If you look at truck stops, you'll see there are only a very few diesel oils sold, typically Rotella, Delo, and Delvac. Trucking companies find what works for them and won't switch. They're not interested in saving a dollar a gallon on some unknown oil.


The C certified oils are all also S certified, just as some S certified oils are also C certified. The best C certified oils are SG, usually SH, sometimes SJ. I don't know of a C certified oil which is SL. The best S certified oils are CF, which is a relatively old and obsolete C standard, and does not include the tests for high speed high temperature engines that CG, CH, and CI have. In fact, CF oil does not meet the current factory standards for Volkswagen or Mercedes diesel passenger cars.

The API charges serious money to test an oil and certify it. If the API really tested the oil in their independent lab, and the oil company pays their royalties on time, the oil company gets to display the API seal on their product. Some smaller companies don't pay the API to test their oils and certify them. In these cases, you won't see the API seal, instead you'll see some words like "Meets or exceeds all manufacturers warranty requirements. API Service SJ, SL, CF." It's up to you to decide if you trust this manufacturer to actually test their oil themselves and tell you the truth about the results

See this site:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Lemme ask ya this: Did you even bother to make the least little attempt to find out if there was a reason?

Didn't think so.

--Wag--
 

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Here's why, novice dudes.

"Commercial (Diesel) Oil

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Lemme ask ya this: Did you even bother to make the least little attempt to find out if there was a reason?

Didn't think so.

--Wag--
Informative article, but the author is wrong about the oil certification letters "C" and "S".

"C" and "S" refer to the means by which the fuel is ignited in the engine.

"C" means the oil is for use in a Compression ignition engine.
"S" means the oil is for use in a Spark ignition engine.

Because combustion chamber temperatures involved in diesel engines are considerably lower than those in gasoline powered engines the by-products of combustion in a diesel engine are different and require a different additive package.


I have read a lot about rotella.........and I will never use it in my street bike. If I had a track bike, I would consider using it.

Rotella has two big downfalls for street use.

1. It can only maintain shear stability (vital for protecting the flanks of gear teeth and transmission shift dogs) half or less than half as long as a good ester based full sythetic. Therefore you must change it twice as often to maintain the same level of protection as a full synthetic.

2. It does not contain any corrosion inhibitors for protecting ferrous metals inside the engine for long periods of inactivity.

These two points are basically moot if rotella is used in a track bike. Track bikes usually receive very frequent oil changes (about every 1000 kms) and regular use / maintenence.


.
 

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Here's why, novice dudes.

"Commercial (Diesel) Oil

The additive packages for C (commercial) certification are designed to promote engine life. The additive packages for C rated oils contain extra buffers and detergents to keep the engine clean and free of acids. C rated oils are far better than S oils at holding and dispersing combustion byproducts and other contaminants, and at not becoming acidic. Traditionally these oils are primarily used in diesel motors, which are very expensive and are expected to last a million miles or more. When an engine rebuild costs $10,000 - $15,000 and puts you out of work for a week or three, you don't mind paying a bit more for your oil. The C certification tests have been largely developed by Mack, Caterpillar, Detroit and Cummins to provide the additives necessary to keep these engines running a long time. The latest commercial certification is CI-4 Plus, which includes extra protection for high temperature high revving motors. Since it's designed for diesel motors, they don't care about no stinkin' catalytic thingies, and CAFE is a place where you get a cup of joe and a donut. CI-4 Plus differs from CI-4 with higher detergent requirements and better sheer stability. The shear stability is exactly what motorcycles need due to running the engine oil through the transmission.


Although C standards are changed every few years, the older standards are enhanced, not superceded. So, newer higher rated C oils are simply better than older lower rated oils.


Although few car owners test their oil regularly, most large trucking companies routinely do oil analysis on their diesel trucks. Used oils are checked for viscosity breakdown, for detergent and dispersant function, and for metal contamination that would indicate engine wear. C oils that don't measure up are quickly run off the market place. To prevent engine wear, the best strategy is to keep deposits off the pistons, rings, and bearings. Therefore, diesel oils typically contain half again more detergents, double the dispersants, and a much more expensive and robust VII package than S type oils. If you go to an auto parts store, convenience store, or grocery store, you'll see that there are dozens of brands of automotive oils, all claiming to be the best. If you look at truck stops, you'll see there are only a very few diesel oils sold, typically Rotella, Delo, and Delvac. Trucking companies find what works for them and won't switch. They're not interested in saving a dollar a gallon on some unknown oil.


The C certified oils are all also S certified, just as some S certified oils are also C certified. The best C certified oils are SG, usually SH, sometimes SJ. I don't know of a C certified oil which is SL. The best S certified oils are CF, which is a relatively old and obsolete C standard, and does not include the tests for high speed high temperature engines that CG, CH, and CI have. In fact, CF oil does not meet the current factory standards for Volkswagen or Mercedes diesel passenger cars.

The API charges serious money to test an oil and certify it. If the API really tested the oil in their independent lab, and the oil company pays their royalties on time, the oil company gets to display the API seal on their product. Some smaller companies don't pay the API to test their oils and certify them. In these cases, you won't see the API seal, instead you'll see some words like "Meets or exceeds all manufacturers warranty requirements. API Service SJ, SL, CF." It's up to you to decide if you trust this manufacturer to actually test their oil themselves and tell you the truth about the results

See this site:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Lemme ask ya this: Did you even bother to make the least little attempt to find out if there was a reason?

Didn't think so.

--Wag--
I have done the research for the last 15+ years. I am in the Libricants business. As far as your info, SOME of what you are saying it correct but your also are incorrect as someone has already pointed out and posted. I do not have the time nor desire to refute your theories. All I am saying is if diesel engine oil is the best for your motorcycle then why is it not used by the guys in moto gp formula 1 or even dare I say it nascar! You obviously have a lot of time on your hands..get a job or a life bro! By the way. Do you use this magical diesel engine oil in your bike? "Didn't think so"
 

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Do you use this magical diesel engine oil in your bike? "Didn't think so"
Nope. Good enough is good enough. Regular oil is fine and even if I were to use diesel oil, I'd still change it every 3,000 miles.

I'm not into paying for more than I need. Are you? I hope not.

--Wag--
 

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I do not have the time nor desire to refute your theories.
Really? Why's that? I'm one of the FEW people on this or any other board who will come back and say, "I was wrong. Thanks for the update."

Lay it on us, man. If you have no desire, why are you wasting time on here?

--Wag--
 
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