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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #1
So this guy was riding like an ass in group 3. I was sick of him squeezing in between me on the dotted line and the outside wall so I let him go on ahead a bit at the barrels so I could focus on my line and not on him. Good thing because he slammed into an instructor dragging a novice at 80mph on the back straight. I had just enough time to swerve around the novice rider in between her and the bike that was tumbling end over end from the douche bag rider who was sliding down the track on the back of his head to her right. I was so close to her I had to shift my upper body to sqeeze by her.

Yep. Just thought I'd share.
Sitting in my hotel drinking heavily now :facepalm
 

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Hand-Eye Coordinator
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vid? pics? if this causes you such stress that you try to drown it, it may be time for a new hobby.

good job not hitting anyone.
 

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Premium Member
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Good call. Sometimes you just have let them by and just watch what happens. After a while, you'll get a feel for when someone is riding in a way that they are over their heads and about to crash. That is terrible that it took out an instructor and the student. I hope they were OK.

Just a note, you might need to back off a few more feet when you see an inconsistent rider jamming up too fast behind some other traffic. Those few feet can give you time to make better decisions on how to get by if someone crashes. I like to make sure that I see that a rider is consistent and running appropriate lines before I get very close. Then if the rider is not riding cleanly and predictably, I chose one of the safer places to pass, and I don't sit right behind them. I hope you don't mind my comments, but if we were at that track and you were telling me your story, I might say the same thing.

Great job keeping yourself out of trouble!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think the only video is on the track cameras. Not sure if/when they will publish it. Pretty sure the douche in my group died on impact though.

It doesn't normally stress me out but this particular event was a clusterfuck. That's a shame because I really like the track itself, just not the fools running it. They had people who could barely ride a bike on the street and have never set foot on a track riding with advanced riders. This is certainly not the track to be doing that.

The "class" was obolute garbage. The instructor actaully told complete novices to use their rear brakes.....in turns no less.
 

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Chubby Chaser
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Yeah, take it easy on the booze. I've seen and been in involved in some hairy shit on track. It shouldn't ever make you feel the need to numb yourself afterwards.
 

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It sucks if a track day club is not good at making sure that people are in the correct groups. Some clubs let you just say which group you should ride in, without taking any steps to verify rider skill level. It makes it very unsafe. Unpredictable riders are a hazard to all, and should be in the slowest, most monitored group. People sign up for group based on ego if left to themselves. And most people think they are a lot more advanced in their track riding skills than they really are, so they put themselves in danger by signing up for a faster group they don't belong in. Then they either ride all over the place, or get smoked by the faster riders in the group. Or, they make a worse mistake by trying to keep up.
 

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Dick/Vagina Embracer
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2 people died during a trackday? That sounds like a horribly unsafe organization to ride with.
 

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F**K!!!!! I am speechless right now. Absolutely stunned.

Two Killed In Daytona Motorcycle Crash | National Speed Sport News

Two Killed In Daytona Motorcycle Crash

October 18, 2013 • By NSSN Staff
An instructor and a student were killed Thursday at Daytona Int’l Speedway.

Team Hammer Advanced Riding School instructor Rick Shaw and student Eric Desy each died from injuries suffered when the pair collided while exiting the banking at the track.

Shaw, 65, was a former AMA SuperBike racer and Miami/Dade police officer. Shaw held the record for miles completed in the famed Daytona 200 motorcycle race until 2011. Shaw ran his first Daytona race in 1981 and retired after the 2006 race and ran 3,728.33 miles during the Daytona 200 alone.

“Everyone at Team Hammer Advanced Riding School is saddened following the tragic loss of student Eric Desy and long-time instructor and former professional racer Rick Shaw at Daytona Int’l Speedway,” said Team Hammer Advanced Riding School’s John Ulrich in a statement. “Rider safety is at the very forefront of all we do and our track record at Daytona speaks for itself. Over the last two decades more than 5000 students have gone through our advanced riding school program at the Speedway, without major incident.

“Our thoughts and prayers go out for the families of Eric and Rick. Eric was a passionate motorcycle enthusiast and amateur racer who was very excited to be riding at Daytona. Rick was an excellent instructor and a great friend. His riding resume at Daytona was outstanding, and for many years he held the record for the most miles raced in the Daytona 200. He really enjoyed sharing his knowledge and experience, and he was very popular with our students. We are fully committed to providing a safe, thrilling and unforgettable riding school for our students and will carefully review our processes and procedures closely to see if there is anything we can improve in the future. Godspeed, Eric Desy. Godspeed, Rick Shaw.”

The following statement was issued on behalf of Daytona Int’l Speedway:

“Our thoughts and prayers go out to the riders and their families, and we are deeply saddened by their loss. Rick Shaw in particular had a long history of racing at Daytona, and for several years held the record for most miles raced in the Daytona 200. He was loved by many in the motorcycle community and we will miss him greatly.

“The safety of fans and competitors is always our top priority and we work closely with event officials to ensure the best safety protocols are in place and followed. Team Hammer Advanced Riding School has an outstanding track record of safety at Daytona International Speedway, hosting thousands of riders since the early 1990s. Whenever an unfortunate incident does occur at our facility, we take the opportunity to learn and refine any event procedures.”
 

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Premium Member
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2 people died during a trackday? That sounds like a horribly unsafe organization to ride with.
It was a Team Hammer track day and they have been running it there since the early 90's. John Ulrich, owner of Road Racing World and the M4 AMA team is not someone who is new at this.

Regardless, it really sucks that Rick Shaw lost his life. RIP

Also RIP to the other rider.
 

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VERY sad news.....R.I.P.
 

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2 people died during a trackday? That sounds like a horribly unsafe organization to ride with.
You have no idea what you are talking about.

The Team Hammer days are extremely well ran and are ran just as safe as any.

Very sad, rest in peace Rick and Eric.
 

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Dick/Vagina Embracer
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Then that is just a series of unfortunate events. I feel terrible for all involved.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You have no idea what you are talking about.

The Team Hammer days are extremely well ran and are ran just as safe as any.

Very sad, rest in peace Rick and Eric.
I'm new to this sport so feel free to flame away but you sir are smoking crack.

I have never been to a school/track day where they have absolute beginners on 600s riding at the same time as pros and advanced riders. The first classroom session they did NOT go over passing rules or where not to be if you are going slow which should be the 2nd thing they cover after flags. After the 1st track session I politely asked both instructors (one of whom is now dead) if they could go over passing rules as I was seeing some very aggressive passing on the inside. My request was ignored. After the second session I become more aggressive and mentioned it multiple times in class and was shutdown each time. I was pretty aggravated at this point and started bitching to a few other riders as we walked back to the paddock. They agreed that this class was not giving beginners what they needed and that they felt conditions on the track were unsafe. I specifically said that they should not be putting complete newbees on small displacement bikes on this kind of track with advanced riders on literbikes and if something does not change here someone is going to get killed. 10 minutes later 2 people died.

I guess that's what's really bothering me here. I've seen people get killed on bikes before. But what's bothering me is that THIS WAS PREVENTABLE!!! It pisses me off and I feel like I should have said or done more.

~End rant
 

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Premium Member
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I'm new to this sport so feel free to flame away but you sir are smoking crack.

I have never been to a school/track day where they have absolute beginners on 600s riding at the same time as pros and advanced riders. The first classroom session they did NOT go over passing rules or where not to be if you are going slow which should be the 2nd thing they cover after flags. After the 1st track session I politely asked both instructors (one of whom is now dead) if they could go over passing rules as I was seeing some very aggressive passing on the inside. My request was ignored. After the second session I become more aggressive and mentioned it multiple times in class and was shutdown each time. I was pretty aggravated at this point and started bitching to a few other riders as we walked back to the paddock. They agreed that this class was not giving beginners what they needed and that they felt conditions on the track were unsafe. I specifically said that they should not be putting complete newbees on small displacement bikes on this kind of track with advanced riders on literbikes and if something does not change here someone is going to get killed. 10 minutes later 2 people died.

I guess that's what's really bothering me here. I've seen people get killed on bikes before. But what's bothering me is that THIS WAS PREVENTABLE!!! It pisses me off and I feel like I should have said or done more.

~End rant
Sounds to me like those beginners didn't know what they were getting into... The Team Hammer school is for advanced track riders looking to make the jump into racing. It is not a beginner track day school, and nowhere on their site is it advertised that way from what I can see. It is a race school, so passing is allowed anywhere, unlike a track day.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sounds to me like those beginners didn't know what they were getting into... The Team Hammer school is for advanced track riders looking to make the jump into racing. It is not a beginner track day school, and nowhere on their site is it advertised that way from what I can see. It is a race school, so passing is allowed anywhere, unlike a track day.
Yeah trouble is some people don't realize that and those people were not warned.
 
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