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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys, while I'm fitting the new front brake master cylinder from the recall I figure I may aswell throw on some braided lines and change the pads in attempt to have a stronger feel. I was thinking spiegler lines but am not 100% on the pads, it'll be for both street and track days. May only be on the street for another 12mths as I'm thinking of retiring it then for track duties only. Rotors are stock.
Cheers.


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Vesrah RJL, not the SRJL.
 

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Bearded Viking Admin...
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I like the Carbone Lorraine XBK5 for a street/trackday pad. Don't go full race pad as long as you still ride on the street - they are great when hot but TERRIBLE when cold - and you won't get them to operating temperature just riding around.
 

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They work fine... Even for beginner track day use.
 

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Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
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Never understood changing something if it works. I can understand if they were failing for what they were being used for but like they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Never understood changing something if it works. I can understand if they were failing for what they were being used for but like they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Pads are worn mate, I need new ones. I also want a bit more of a solid feel. When it's on the track or if I go for a spirited road ride my lines swell with the heat and pressure...brake fade...it's no good. I want to stop this and now I'm replacing the master cylinder I may aswell do the lot. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.


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Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
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Pads are worn mate, I need new ones. I also want a bit more of a solid feel. When it's on the track or if I go for a spirited road ride my lines swell with the heat and pressure...brake fade...it's no good. I want to stop this and now I'm replacing the master cylinder I may aswell do the lot. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.


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Missed you mentioned you were tracking the bike. :hammer
Just see a lot of threads about people swapping OEM brake pads for "race brakes pads" for the street which seems like a waste of money. No worries.
 

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Pads are worn mate, I need new ones. I also want a bit more of a solid feel. When it's on the track or if I go for a spirited road ride my lines swell with the heat and pressure...brake fade...it's no good. I want to stop this and now I'm replacing the master cylinder I may aswell do the lot. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.


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It's unlikely that the lines are causing the fade or the soft feeling. More likely is your fluid is old and your pads are worn both of which actually cause fade. Not the lines.

Fwiw carbone Lorraine as suggested aren't a bad pad. I have them on my race sv650. But I prefer sbs (sintered for dual duty, dual carbon for race/track only duty) or performance friction. Both have a more progressive feel, great feedback, and smooth let off. I've never gotten good let off or feel from any of the vesrah I have tried
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
It's unlikely that the lines are causing the fade or the soft feeling. More likely is your fluid is old and your pads are worn both of which actually cause fade. Not the lines.

Fwiw carbone Lorraine as suggested aren't a bad pad. I have them on my race sv650. But I prefer sbs (sintered for dual duty, dual carbon for race/track only duty) or performance friction. Both have a more progressive feel, great feedback, and smooth let off. I've never gotten good let off or feel from any of the vesrah I have tried

It could very well be a combination of all three joe although my fluid is always fresh, and yes the brake lines do contribute to brake fade. Here's something to look at. http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcycle-braided-brake-lines


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It could very well be a combination of all three joe although my fluid is always fresh, and yes the brake lines do contribute to brake fade. Here's something to look at. http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcycle-braided-brake-lines


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I disagree with the article.

There are two types of brake fade. Pad fade, and fluid fade.

Pad fade is extremely rare on bikes. Pad fade is when the pad material over heats and builds a gas barrier layer between the pads and the rotor. Pad fade the lever does not get soft. The brakes just seem to stop working as well

Fluid fade comes from having fluid that has too low a wet boiling point or air in the lines. As the temps rise the water in the fluid boils off and creates tiny air pockets which make the lever spongie and it to come back farther.


Modern brake line don't flex near as much as they used to. They are Kevlar lined which has nearly the same tensile strength as steel. Inside that Kevlar lining is the same hose liner as steel lines have.

The benefit that steel lines give you is they often have a smaller inside diameter which has less fluid and gives more feel if you are talented enough to utilize it. They are a bit tougher in a crash. And they may sink heat away a bit better.

The article acts as if the lines are just a rubber hose. They aren't. They have Kevlar webbing inside that does the same job the steel braiding does

Define "fluid is always fresh"???

If I were a betting man if bet your fade is almost assuredly due to either wet fluid, or incomplete bleeding. I have done a few articles on it. Especially with the pre-recall master the gsxr brakes are finicky to bleed but I've developed a technique that dn near guarantees perfect bleeding. I have helped dozens if not hundreds of people cure what they thought was a bad master cylinder or other issue simply with a thorough and proper bleed

My write ups are in the "mods and how to" section. There are three of them. If you do all three your fade will almost guaranteed be gone.
 

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Thought I made it clear it's on the track as much as the road. And soon will possibly be just on the track. Just opinions on products may be more helpful guys.


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I gave you an opinion on pads

Honestly lines it doesn't matter other than aesthetics mainly. They all do the same job.
 

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Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
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I disagree with the article.

There are two types of brake fade. Pad fade, and fluid fade.

Pad fade is extremely rare on bikes. Pad fade is when the pad material over heats and builds a gas barrier layer between the pads and the rotor. Pad fade the lever does not get soft. The brakes just seem to stop working as well

Fluid fade comes from having fluid that has too low a wet boiling point or air in the lines. As the temps rise the water in the fluid boils off and creates tiny air pockets which make the lever spongie and it to come back farther.


Modern brake line don't flex near as much as they used to. They are Kevlar lined which has nearly the same tensile strength as steel. Inside that Kevlar lining is the same hose liner as steel lines have.

The benefit that steel lines give you is they often have a smaller inside diameter which has less fluid and gives more feel if you are talented enough to utilize it. They are a bit tougher in a crash. And they may sink heat away a bit better.

The article acts as if the lines are just a rubber hose. They aren't. They have Kevlar webbing inside that does the same job the steel braiding does

Define "fluid is always fresh"???

If I were a betting man if bet your fade is almost assuredly due to either wet fluid, or incomplete bleeding. I have done a few articles on it. Especially with the pre-recall master the gsxr brakes are finicky to bleed but I've developed a technique that dn near guarantees perfect bleeding. I have helped dozens if not hundreds of people cure what they thought was a bad master cylinder or other issue simply with a thorough and proper bleed

My write ups are in the "mods and how to" section. There are three of them. If you do all three your fade will almost guaranteed be gone.
I was just going to ask you about braided lines on a street only bike and if there was a difference or not. I was thinking about doing them to my gixxer but haven't started research to see if they are worth it.

Like Joe mentioned I did just bleed my brakes (not sure if previous own ever did so I wanted to be sure). I had pretty much no air in the lines but the fluid was just old and crappy. Brakes feel amazing now.
 

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I was just going to ask you about braided lines on a street only bike and if there was a difference or not. I was thinking about doing them to my gixxer but haven't started research to see if they are worth it.

Like Joe mentioned I did just bleed my brakes (not sure if previous own ever did so I wanted to be sure). I had pretty much no air in the lines but the fluid was just old and crappy. Brakes feel amazing now.

They do very little for a street ridden bike especially a later model. They do change the feel because of the lower volume of fluid used usually but that is not to say it is "better" but rather "different". They do look better through :squid :D
 

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Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
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They do very little for a street ridden bike especially a later model. They do change the feel because of the lower volume of fluid used usually but that is not to say it is "better" but rather "different". They do look better through :squid :D
I thought not only was I going to be cool with my upgraded blue braided brake lines but at the same time it would have turned my bike into a MotoGP bike. Thanks for killing my dream.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I disagree with the article.

There are two types of brake fade. Pad fade, and fluid fade.

Pad fade is extremely rare on bikes. Pad fade is when the pad material over heats and builds a gas barrier layer between the pads and the rotor. Pad fade the lever does not get soft. The brakes just seem to stop working as well

Fluid fade comes from having fluid that has too low a wet boiling point or air in the lines. As the temps rise the water in the fluid boils off and creates tiny air pockets which make the lever spongie and it to come back farther.


Modern brake line don't flex near as much as they used to. They are Kevlar lined which has nearly the same tensile strength as steel. Inside that Kevlar lining is the same hose liner as steel lines have.

The benefit that steel lines give you is they often have a smaller inside diameter which has less fluid and gives more feel if you are talented enough to utilize it. They are a bit tougher in a crash. And they may sink heat away a bit better.

The article acts as if the lines are just a rubber hose. They aren't. They have Kevlar webbing inside that does the same job the steel braiding does

Define "fluid is always fresh"???

If I were a betting man if bet your fade is almost assuredly due to either wet fluid, or incomplete bleeding. I have done a few articles on it. Especially with the pre-recall master the gsxr brakes are finicky to bleed but I've developed a technique that dn near guarantees perfect bleeding. I have helped dozens if not hundreds of people cure what they thought was a bad master cylinder or other issue simply with a thorough and proper bleed

My write ups are in the "mods and how to" section. There are three of them. If you do all three your fade will almost guaranteed be gone.

My fluid is regularly changed and bled properly, the bike gets a bit of a hard time so it is very well maintained. I didn't ask anyone about opinions on braided lines so I'm a bit confused as to why we are heading down this path. If you are adamant that braided lines are useless that's fine, just don't put them on your bike. A lot of teams and riders may not agree with your opinions but that's fine because all they are are just that, opinions, and we are all entitled to them.
Not meaning to be rude joe, and I appreciate the advice on pads you've given, just seems to be a lot of harping on about lines and fluid when I only asked about pads. Thanks again though buddy.


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I used to run Vesrah SRJL-17's on my street bike, RJLs would have been sufficient but I personally prefer the stronger initial bite that the SRJLs have. I'm now running the new SRJL-SS pads, I don't think they make them for all caliper types yet though. They feel similar to the 17's to be but with maybe a tad less initial bite.

On my track/race bike I use Performance Friction 07 compound (replaced by the 13 compound now I believe). I would not recommend these for the street, they require a bit of heat build-up in them to get to proper operating temps, have to drag them a bit coming out of the pits and the sighting lap.
 
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