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Brake bleeding problems? Look here, fail proof bleeding

246K views 374 replies 144 participants last post by  craigfer63 
#1 · (Edited)
Fail proof bleeding. ........... TRUST ME

Get some teflon tape.
Get some clear aquarium hose.
Get a catch bottle for the fluid
Get a wrench to fit bleeders (8mm on most)
Get a phillips screw driver to remove reservoir lid
Get a NEW UNOPENED BOTTLE of QUALITY brake fluid. IMPORTANT!!.
Only takes one person

Put tape on the threads of the bleeders, being careful not to get it so low on the bleeders as to get under them. The teflon tape is important to keep air from seeping past the threads on the bleeders and into the system, as well as keeping the bleeder in place while you pump the lever. The tape is one of the critical parts here. If you wish to not use tape, another option is thread sealant by speed bleeder http://compare.ebay.com/like/390486839094?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar. The thread sealant is what makes speedbleeders work really. The hose I am attaching to the nipple of the bleeder once it has fluid in it (after first pump) acts just like the check valve in speedbleeders. Since you need the hose anyway to not make a mess, the check valve is pointless. The key is the sealant on the threads to prevent air seeping past the threads.

Forget the "Pump pump pump, crack.... close... repeat" method. It sucks.

Attach the hose to the bleeders. Run that hose to a catch bottle well above the nipple you are bleeding, so you keep a column of fluid in the hose on top of the bleeder. This column of fluid in the hose on top of the nipples is very important to keep air from going back in the system

Crack the master cylinder bleeder, just enough that you still have some pressure on the lever as you pull it, but fluid is coming out of it also. pump until you get clean clear fluid out of the MC bleeder. I usually run one entire reservoir of fluid through the bleeder. I have also found that letting the lever "snap" back out helps. I am not sure why. It may knock stuck bubbles loose, or cause small bubbles to make bigger bubbles. But it sometimes helps, especially when trying to prime a new system. Re-fill reservoir and move to lower right caliper.

Tap lines lightly with something

Crack bleeder on lower right caliper (with teflon tape on it) again just enough that fluid will pass out of it, but there is some effort at the lever. Run an entire reservoir through it. Close bleeder.

tap on lines again

Repeat with left caliper.

Repeat at all three bleeders, (meaning do this TWICE at EACH bleeder) using about one full reservoir at each bleeder.

remove all hoses and catch bottles. Clean up and ride.



Trust me, you will thank me later. Assuming you dont have a mechanical issue, you will now have the most firm lever you have ever felt in your life.


Some people argue going through that much fluid is "a waste". Truth is once a bottle of fluid is opened it is garbage anyway. So with that said, might as well run it through the system to flush out old fluid and bubbles before you throw the bottle away. Once it is opened it has started absorbing water from the atmosphere and is GARBAGE
 
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#63 ·
I just want to throw my $.02 in here. I did this last night and holy crap! This works perfectly! I just followed each step and went through the each bleeder twice. Piece of cake and flawless results. I took the bike out for a test ride last night and my brakes are rock solid. This morning I rode it into work. It's like a new bike. The brakes have never been this good. I'm so pumped about them now I want to get my new lines and pads ordered. Thanks a million Moto Joe!
 
#64 ·
Hi guys.I did this the weekend and changed pads and my brakes on my k7 600 are alot better but every now and again if I pull the brake its as if there is no pressure, leave it and pull again and it feels fine.Cant see any fluid leaks anywhere.One of the shops suggested changing the lines to steel braided.
 
#65 ·
The lines wont cause you to lose pressure. Their is either air in the lines, or a bent rotor. Does it lose pressure ever sitting still? Or only after you roll it a bit?
 
#67 ·
Then you are doing something wrong, and there is still air in the lines or something. Make sure you have a good thread seal if you are trying to do the bleed the way outlined here, and also make sure you keep some pressure at the lever when pumping. It should not flop around, It should feel just a bit softer than actually applying the brakes.
 
#85 ·
Ok so I did it again and the brakes are 100 times better but for some reason I still have the problem where it goes soft every now and then.While I was bleeding it it had constant pressure and there was no air coming through the tubes just fluid.Let it stand for awhile and went to feel and it was fine still.Took the bike for a ride and very first attempt the lever hit the handlebar, second attempt the pressure was back and everytime there after.Got home and left it to stand for awhile and on the fist pull no pressure again but every pull after that had pressure.Cant see it leaking anywhere and the reservoir stays full.Dont know what else to try.
 
#68 ·
So this thread got me looking at my stuff, and I noticed the rear brake resivior looks like the damn thing is empty:dunno. So when I pull the cap off it tomorrow and fill it do I basically do it the same way as the way you have it outlined for the fronts? Ive never worked on a bike before and want to do simple stuff myself just dont want to screw nothing up... would I pump the rear brake with my hand as I bleed? And do I need a special bottle with a pointy nose to fill that up or do I have to take the plastics off as its hard to get to?
 
#69 ·
Easiest thing to do on the rear usually is to taket he reservoir loose from its mount.

And yes, it should work fine the same way.
 
#72 ·
I am trying... When i pump and hold brake lever in I crack the bleeder.... do I wait till I see air come out before closing or do I open close open close? Shit I got a ton of air in the line.. the rubber hose feeding the MC was full of air. I squezed it and big air bubbles came out. What I did wrong was empty the resivior to much. So easy a monkey could do it guess Im dumber then a monkey. Something that sould have took a few minutes is taking hours now...
 
#73 ·
Did you read the directions? :lmao

You open the bleeder ONCE (with tape on it to make sure the threads stay sealed) and keep it just closed enough to keep pressure at the lever, and pump the lever until you see no more air. You dont open and close the bleeder.

the only thing I did not add was that sometimes it is best to actually pump the lever, then let go for a second or two, then pump again, rather than trying to pump fast.
 
#74 ·
Yeah I understand that joe. What Im trying to say is 1) I fucked up from the begining and empted the old shit out of the resivior causing a ton of air to go in the system. 2) I have No presure at the lever AT ALL. NONE . I dont know why I emptyed the damn thing ... I didnt empty the back one and they are great. But my dumb ass emptyed the front one totally. So now I have no pressure at the lever at all and a ton of air in the line. Go ahead and tell me that I fucked up
 
#76 ·
:lol

To get fluid moving, you might need to try "old school" way, THEN go my way just to get fluid in the lines again. Bleed MC first, then go to the calipers.
 
#77 ·
My bike dont have an MC bleeder. I had to end up pulling the brake lever off and tilting it so the air would come out of the MC, the way it is mounted the air was trapped inside. Just a dumb rookie mistake and I didnt follow instructions but hey I got it they are tighter then shit and I learned something so thanks Joe, its a great way to bleed them without a mess even though I made a mess lol.
 
#78 ·
Is the teflon tape critical? I tried this method without the tape today (before I found this post) and I couldn't get the M/C bleed nipple to puke anything really - just a few ml's. The right side caliper line filled and puked out solid fluid but the left side had nothing. And I couldn't get any "firmness" on the lever. Is my M/C bad?
 
#79 ·
It is not absulutely needed if you keep enough tension at the screw that air can't get past the threads. But that takes a bit of feel and experience imo so the tape is the best bet. I doubt the Mc is bad.
 
#80 ·
I hear ya......but why would it fill one line and not the other AND never get firm at all. I mean it was still as loose as it was when empty. It doesn't make any sense:scratch????????? Its sucked enough out of the reservoir to fill the right line and caliper but that's it and after that the reservoir level wouldn't change. Also keep in mind that I seperated each of the front caliper halves to inspect the seals but couldn't get the pistons out to replace them so I just replaced the small o-ring in between the caliper halves and called it good. Overkill i know, but I figured I'd take a look while I replaced the pads and lines. The seals (what I could see anyway) looked good around the pistons, no leaking. Sorry for the newbie questions but this is keeping me off the track right now. Sooooooo pissed!!! Ready to light the sumbitch on fire!!!!:cursing
 
#81 ·
It wont get firm until everything is full, so that is no surprise. Why one line and not the other... you did something different on one and not the other :dunno. Do you have the OEM routing of lines? Or do you have two lines from the MC?
 
#82 ·
It wont get firm until everything is full, so that is no surprise. Why one line and not the other... you did something different on one and not the other :dunno. Do you have the OEM routing of lines? Or do you have two lines from the MC?

I have 2 lines from the M/C now...spiegler lines if that matters
 
#83 ·
Line type does not matter. Check to make sure the washers are right on the banjo, and you have the right bolt. That is the only thing I can see mechanically wrong. Should be Master cylinder, washer, banjo, washer, banjo, washer, bolt. And be sure the bolts holes line up with the banjos, and even make sure the bolts holes are clear.

If all those things are done, you just need to keep at it. You can try doing it "old school" if need be to get it started too. Pump pump pump, crack-close, repeat. Once you get fluid swap to this way, and it shoudl work
 
#86 · (Edited)
Line type does not matter. Check to make sure the washers are right on the banjo, and you have the right bolt. That is the only thing I can see mechanically wrong. Should be Master cylinder, washer, banjo, washer, banjo, washer, bolt. And be sure the bolts holes line up with the banjos, and even make sure the bolts holes are clear.

If all those things are done, you just need to keep at it. You can try doing it "old school" if need be to get it started too. Pump pump pump, crack-close, repeat. Once you get fluid swap to this way, and it shoudl work
I actually stacked 2 washers between the banjos at the M/C. The way the bolt was contoured I thought it made sense to do it that way. With 2 washers it lifts the top line banjo above the "indent" in the bolt. I'm assuming I needed the second one to get the upper banjo above that step on the bolt??? Maybe I'm wrong???? I used all the parts in the kit so I figured it was right. Everything else is as you said. I tried the pump pump crack method for a couple hours and got nothing. Who knows at this point. I'm missing an entire race weekend because of this. I don't want to miss anymore.
 
#87 ·
Put the washers in the order I said. The holes in the line and banjo probably are not lined up and you are not getting fluid to one line properly.
 
#90 ·
There should be a washer on each side of every banjo.

So at the MC, it is MC, washer, banjo, washer, banjo, washer bolt

At the calipers it is Caliper, washer, banjo, washer, bolt.

If it is not like that it is wrong. If it is, and you have washers left, then they accidentally sent you an extra.
 
#93 ·
There should be a washer on each side of every banjo.

So at the MC, it is MC, washer, banjo, washer, banjo, washer bolt

At the calipers it is Caliper, washer, banjo, washer, bolt.

If it is not like that it is wrong. If it is, and you have washers left, then they accidentally sent you an extra.

Ok thank you man, I really appreciate it...I have everything like you said except I have 2 washers between the banjos so I'll take one out and give it a shot...I'll put teflon on too. Standby...
 
#92 ·
Trackday was rained out today so I came home and did this.........lever feels about the same as before maybe slightly harder.
Hopefully it helps with the horrible brake fade that I always get after about 4-5 hot laps.
I know my arms got a good pump from putting through a whole bottle front & back.:cheers
 
#94 ·
Sorry to keep this thread going with crappy questions but I am confused on something at the MC. I will be attempting this procedure of bleeding tomorrow morning but will also be switching my lines out to Speiglers as well. When removing the fluid from the lines, I saw in the STG vids, do I, completely empty the MC through the caliper, unhook all lines, connect new lines, fill reservoir, bleed the MC, fill reservoir, bleed calipers, fill reservoir, repeat bleeding procedure, refill reservoir? I'm confused because you guys are saying not to comepletely empty the MC but the STG vids show them emptying the MC. :dunno If this is how I do it then this will be cake walk, but if not, please enlighten me on what to do differently. Also the entire system needs new fluid, so I am trying to remove as much old fluid as possible before entering any new fluid to the system. :cheers
 
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