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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, sorry for posting this thread but couldn't find any solution on the existing threads.

So basically its K6 600 13K miles, yesterday went for 30 mins ride. pulled over, turned off the bike, then it wouldn't start. had to push start.

another 45 mins to home. stopped, wouldn't start again. tried again after 5 mins, and it started.

it seems to be cranking, checked battery and it reed 14V at idle. could it be valve adjustments?

any help is appreciated.
 

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It sounds like a worn battery. Have you checked the battery voltage with the engine stopped? Generally, I'd suggest the following measurements: 1) With the ignition off, 2) After turning on the ignition but before starting, 3) while cranking, 4) at idle and 5) at 3-5000 rpm (in neutral of course).

You want your battery to be above 12.6V or so while unloaded. After turning on the ignition, the voltage shouldn't drop too much (more than a few tenths of a Volt say). While cranking, it will drop more, but it shouldn't drop too much and at idle and higher speed, you're looking for charging voltages around 14-15V.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It sounds like a worn battery. Have you checked the battery voltage with the engine stopped? Generally, I'd suggest the following measurements: 1) With the ignition off, 2) After turning on the ignition but before starting, 3) while cranking, 4) at idle and 5) at 3-5000 rpm (in neutral of course).

You want your battery to be above 12.6V or so while unloaded. After turning on the ignition, the voltage shouldn't drop too much (more than a few tenths of a Volt say). While cranking, it will drop more, but it shouldn't drop too much and at idle and higher speed, you're looking for charging voltages around 14-15V.
Thanks for your reply.

I will carry out this test and see what kind of readings i get.
 

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+1 on those tests

When you stop, is the battery hot to the touch?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So i did the battery test last night, these are the values:
1) With the ignition off: 12.33 V
2) After turning on the ignition but before starting: 11.82 V
3) while cranking: 10.32 V
4) at idle: 14.00 V
5) at 3-5000 rpm: 14.22 V


One thing i think that was causing the issue could've been my exhaust. I have Micron GP exhaust, didn't have a baffle so bought a baffle from ebay and stuck it in. Could the back pressure have been causing the issue starting up? took out the baffle and the glass wool was all pushed up in a bunch. started the bike without the baffle and it seemed to start much quicker (less cranking). Thanks.
 

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Your battery seems to be either drained or worn out. Your charging system appears to be working fine, so there's no reason for it to be drained, unless you forgot the parking lights on or something, or unless you're leaking current for some reason. You might try to charge the battery and see if it gets better, and I'd also perform a leakage current test, as described in the manual, to make sure the battery isn't getting drained when the bike is sitting switched off.

If battery voltage doesn't remain > 12.6'v at all times after charging it, you'll probably have to replace it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Your battery seems to be either drained or worn out. Your charging system appears to be working fine, so there's no reason for it to be drained, unless you forgot the parking lights on or something, or unless you're leaking current for some reason. You might try to charge the battery and see if it gets better, and I'd also perform a leakage current test, as described in the manual, to make sure the battery isn't getting drained when the bike is sitting switched off.

If battery voltage doesn't remain > 12.6'v at all times after charging it, you'll probably have to replace it.
I found out the battery manufacturing date and it is Nov 2015, not too old, but the bike has low mileage so i guess it was left sitting for a while, might pick up a new battery in the meantime, I fully charged the battery using a tender and took it for a spin and it wouldn't start again. If it was battery, would it not get worse if i kept trying as i'd be draining the battery? but if i try after 5 mins, she cranks and starts... think the starter is ruled out if it cranks normally.

any input regarding the camshaft and/or crank sensor that could be causing this?
 

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If it was battery, would it not get worse if i kept trying as i'd be draining the battery? but if i try after 5 mins, she cranks and starts... think the starter is ruled out if it cranks normally.
That's a good question, but I'm not familiar enough with lead-acid battery construction and hence their failure modes to answer it. I find it peculiar that, although the battery is sitting at a very low voltage (<12V) when relatively lightly loaded after turning on the ignition, yet it doesn't drop much lower when severly loaded by the starter motor. This might have various explanations. For one it might be that while your battery is worn, your starter motor or the associated wiring has a problem as well, one that doesn't allow the motor to draw too much current. Another explanation would be that the battery has failed partially, say that somehow a single cell inside got shorted out and the other 5 are still more or less sound, so that it's now a nominal 10.5V battery.

As for why it manages to start after 5 minutes, do you notice any difference in the way the motor is being cranked then? Does it sound like the starter motor is turning significantly faster then? The usual explanation for such behavior is that the battery is unable to move enough charge to start the motor to begin with and while cranking the electrolytes near the plates are depleted, so things only get worse until it's obivious it's not going to work out. After waiting for 5 minutes, enough electorlytes have diffused from further away to allow more current and therefore a chance to start the engine.

any input regarding the camshaft and/or crank sensor that could be causing this?
Do you see FI flashing on the dash at any time during cranking or after starting?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That's a good question, but I'm not familiar enough with lead-acid battery construction and hence their failure modes to answer it. I find it peculiar that, although the battery is sitting at a very low voltage (<12V) when relatively lightly loaded after turning on the ignition, yet it doesn't drop much lower when severly loaded by the starter motor. This might have various explanations. For one it might be that while your battery is worn, your starter motor or the associated wiring has a problem as well, one that doesn't allow the motor to draw too much current. Another explanation would be that the battery has failed partially, say that somehow a single cell inside got shorted out and the other 5 are still more or less sound, so that it's now a nominal 10.5V battery.

As for why it manages to start after 5 minutes, do you notice any difference in the way the motor is being cranked then? Does it sound like the starter motor is turning significantly faster then? The usual explanation for such behavior is that the battery is unable to move enough charge to start the motor to begin with and while cranking the electrolytes near the plates are depleted, so things only get worse until it's obivious it's not going to work out. After waiting for 5 minutes, enough electorlytes have diffused from further away to allow more current and therefore a chance to start the engine.

As for the battery, I am going to go buy a new battery today, will get the YTX12A-BS instead of YTX9-BS as the "12" has a higher crank rating. I don't think the starter motor turns any faster or slower, will confirm again when i test it later.


Do you see FI flashing on the dash at any time during cranking or after starting?
No there has been no FI light on display ever.

I found a video which is similar to what happens on my bike but i cant post links but if you search for "2006 gsxr 600 hot start" on youtube, the video is by Corvette Garage. that is the same as my bike.
this person had a vapor lock apparently.
 

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As for the battery, I am going to go buy a new battery today, will get the YTX12A-BS instead of YTX9-BS as the "12" has a higher crank rating. I don't think the starter motor turns any faster or slower, will confirm again when i test it later.
I would advise against getting anything other than the OEM-spcecified battery. Apart from considerations of increased cost, weight, or chance of bad fit, the OEM-specified battery should be more than enough to crank the motor, so that if a bigger battery does in fact help, it will only have helped to mask an underlying condition.

I found a video which is similar to what happens on my bike but i cant post links but if you search for "2006 gsxr 600 hot start" on youtube, the video is by Corvette Garage. that is the same as my bike.
this person had a vapor lock apparently.
The bike in the video seems to be cranking just fine and its difficulties seem to be fueling-related. I'm not sure what the exact problem is, but my K4 also has trouble starting sometimes, without a bit of gas. It seems to behave similarly, but only under certain conditions, usually if it is stopped, or stalled soon after a cold-start and immediately restarted.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I would advise against getting anything other than the OEM-spcecified battery. Apart from considerations of increased cost, weight, or chance of bad fit, the OEM-specified battery should be more than enough to crank the motor, so that if a bigger battery does in fact help, it will only have helped to mask an underlying condition.
I understand, i will get the OEM YTX9-BS. below is a comparison:


Yuasa YT12A-BS Maintenance Free Motorcycle Battery Extra Info
Battery comes pre-filled & ready to fit
Guarantee: 1 Year
100% maintenance free
Spill-proof design
Sulphation retardant
Long lasting
Resists vibration
Holds voltage longer and need less charging in standby or storage mode
Starting Power (CCA): 175Amps
Capacity Ah: 10.0 (10hr) 10.5 (20hr)
Dimensions (LxWxH): 150 x 87 x 105mm
Weight: 3.5kg
Acid volume: 0.5 litres
Charge current: 1.0 Amps


Yuasa YTX9-BS Maintenance Free Motorcycle Battery Extra Info
Battery comes pre-filled & ready to fit
Guarantee: 1 Year
100% maintenance free
Spill-proof design
Sulphation retardant
Long lasting
Resists vibration
Holds voltage longer and need less charging in standby or storage mode
Starting Power (CCA): 135Amps
Capacity Ah: 8.0 (10hr) 8.4 (20hr)
Dimensions (LxWxH): 150 x 87 x 105mm
Weight: 3.0kg
Acid volume: 0.4 litres
Charge current: 0.9Amps



The bike in the video seems to be cranking just fine and its difficulties seem to be fueling-related. I'm not sure what the exact problem is, but my K4 also has trouble starting sometimes, without a bit of gas. It seems to behave similarly, but only under certain conditions, usually if it is stopped, or stalled soon after a cold-start and immediately restarted.
Yes, my bike also cranks fine. Thinking it could be a fueling issue. Yes, mine only does this when ridden and then stopped, and trying to restart.
 

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The battery is 3 1/2 years old and probably hasn't been properly maintained. I would replace the battery before messing with anything else. And definitely stick with the OEM YTX9-BS.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The battery is 3 1/2 years old and probably hasn't been properly maintained. I would replace the battery before messing with anything else. And definitely stick with the OEM YTX9-BS.
Went to get the battery in halfords and they are all sold out. Man said atleast 10 people have come in looking for that battery today. He even joked if suzukis break down a a lot :/

Anyways, i will have to wait to get the battery. Ordered online but it'll take 4-5 days to arrive from UK.

Came and just tried turning the bike off and on and noticed the sometimes it took a bit of cranking to get the bike firing and sometimes it was fine. Also revved it upto 5K rpm and the max the battery read was 14.2V. seems low. Stator on the way out?


Is there any danger or potential damage to bike that can happen if i keep driving the bike?

Appreciate the help guys. glad you have joined the forum.
 

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The stator does not really enter the picture until the engine is spinning; it's mostly irrelevant during starting (unless it's interfering somehow, say by scraping against the case or something like that). When I first got my bike, it cranked fine and started fine, as far as I can remember. At some point several months later, the battery died out after waiting with the ignition on park and all four turn signal blinking for 5' or so. I push started it and after the battery was charged a bit, is still managed to start the bike and I had no problem making a trip home before replacing it. It was only then that I noticed that the starter had been cranking the motor pretty sluggishly all this time.

The moral of the story is that things can look fine but not really be. Your battery is way off-spec in terms of voltage so it needs to be eliminated as a potential cause before there's any point in looking at others.
 

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12.33 Volts is pooched.

Your charging system appears to be working well, but I would still do the tests in the manual.

Most automotive batteries are a "battery" of cells. Battery means more than one, connected together. With Lead-Acid construction, each cell has a voltage of 2.1 volts. A lot of nomenclature with electrics is old, and lead acid batteries are the oldest of the old. For ease of reference when they first started, the cells were referred to as "2 volt" cells.

Your 12V battery of cells is 6 cells connected in series, which make 12.6 volts. 2.1 X 6. That is the MINIMUM acceptable charge.

A lead acid cell is basically made of 2 plates dipped in a liquid and the "poles" (like positive and negative) are connected to the plates. Electrons move from one plate to the other in discharge, and the when the battery is being charged, the electrons move the opposite way.

In old batteries, or batteries that see a lot of use, those plates corrode, so electrons don't move as freely. If there's a lot of shit in your plumbing, water doesn't want to move through, so it's the same concept.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
*UPDATE*

So got a new battery, it reads 12.8 V idling. Bike started fine the first time. Turned it off and tried again. It kept cranking but no fire, eventually started after 5-10 seconds of cranking. Turned it off and tried again, this time started after about 5 seconds of cranking. During all this, the battery read >11V. Think i can rule out the battery. Also the issue is an hot and Cold start now i believe.

i am gonna check the spark plugs next and going to try check the crankshaft sensor, dont know how to but will see.
 

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Get your manual. There is a troubleshoot section where this problem is listed. Check your IAT
 

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*UPDATE*

Checked the IAT: Fine
Checked the CKP: fine also.
Checked spark plugs: Fine

Put everything back together, bike fire up grand, second time took a little longer, third time longer again.
Noticed fuel on the ground from the exhaust mid pipe, it has a micron gp exhaust. no power commander

could fuel be a problem, in this case, too much fuel, flooding?
 

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If only there was a troubleshot section in the manual for this... darn.
 

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Assuming you still don't see FI flashing while, or after cranking, does giving it a small bit off throttle while cranking help? If that is the case, your idle might need to be adjusted.

Regarding fueling problems, they're quite possible of course, but one would expect flooding (extensive enough that it has managed to make its way to the exhaust midpipe!) to cause problems with engine operation (past starting that is) as well.

Nevertheless, a fuel pressure test might be telling since a not-fully-closing injector for instance, should show up as a sustained pressure drop after priming.
 
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