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im am a beleaver in amsoil now... after reading a buch of o.a on a site...it is amazing how there is not to many others that came close
 

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im a amsoil prefered custmer and thinking of becoming a dealler... i have to say that in all my yeares of being a mechanic i never saw an oil hold up like amsoil...i have my own little motorcycle shop that i run out of my garage and i have a good amount of bikes i work on... i did my own comparson with 2 bikes... one filled with amsoil 10-40 full synthetic and the other with brand-x.... both bikes went 3,000 miles when i drained brand-x it looked bad... very black.. when i drained the amsoil.. it came out and i sware it looked like it was never used... it still hade a gold color to it... to all of you that are thinking about it but are not sure... think no more this is the stuff.. i am still in shock about how good amsoil is.. i will use nothing elis but amsoil in my bikes
 

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im a amsoil prefered custmer and thinking of becoming a dealler... i have to say that in all my yeares of being a mechanic i never saw an oil hold up like amsoil...i have my own little motorcycle shop that i run out of my garage and i have a good amount of bikes i work on... i did my own comparson with 2 bikes... one filled with amsoil 10-40 full synthetic and the other with brand-x.... both bikes went 3,000 miles when i drained brand-x it looked bad... very black.. when i drained the amsoil.. it came out and i sware it looked like it was never used... it still hade a gold color to it... to all of you that are thinking about it but are not sure... think no more this is the stuff.. i am still in shock about how good amsoil is.. i will use nothing elis but amsoil in my bikes
I would not go by engine oil color unless you are superman. I good dealer should tell you that. I have see and tested oil for about 20 years and seen black oil test great and clear oil bad. I was a dealer for year and stopped.

Only true way is UOA’s.

Amsoil engine oil is good but it is no cleaner; too low of ester count. Used Amsoil since 1990 (along with other gas/diesel oils) and you think your engine is clean. Throw in Lc20, for example and it will become black since it is cleaning. Heck throw in Lc and watch UOA come back 100% better. Been there done that.

Amsoil filter are good but I know there last SDF tested okay on my bike when compared to others I have used. For the price there SDF where overpriced.
 

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Biased Multi Level Marketing Dealer - take into co
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Discussion Starter #45
I would not go by engine oil color unless you are superman. I good dealer should tell you that. I have see and tested oil for about 20 years and seen black oil test great and clear oil bad. I was a dealer for year and stopped.

Only true way is UOA’s.

Amsoil engine oil is good but it is no cleaner; too low of ester count. Used Amsoil since 1990 (along with other gas/diesel oils) and you think your engine is clean. Throw in Lc20, for example and it will become black since it is cleaning. Heck throw in Lc and watch UOA come back 100% better. Been there done that.

Amsoil filter are good but I know there last SDF tested okay on my bike when compared to others I have used. For the price there SDF where overpriced.
SDF Filters outperformed all other filters on the market but have been gone for 3 years now. They have been replaced by the EA Series which is conservatively rated at 15 Micron. No other filter does this.

If an engine running AMSOIL builds up any sludge, it will usually be due to Nitration of the oil which IS a mechanical problem, not an oil problem.

We just did oil analysis on 3 identical bikes, all right at 10,000 miles.. 2 came back "No Corrective Action Required, Continue To Next Regular Service Interval" One came back with elevated Silicon (Dirt) and wear metals. This was my bike... The only real difference between these 3 bikes... I had a piece of junk K&N Filter on it that the Dealer installed. The oil itself was still serviceable but too contaminated for my liking even though the UOA did not come back "Critical"

The K&N is now gone and an AMSOIL Nano Fiber has been put in its place, which flows as well as a wetted gauze and filters up to 50 times better.

I agree about the "looks" of oil but in everyday applications, it is an indicator.

As far as Ester content, AMSOIL uses the amount of Esters required to give the oil polarity. Use of too much Ester can be harmful to seals and gaskets..


Bob Schultz
 

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SDF Filters outperformed all other filters on the market but have been gone for 3 years now. They have been replaced by the EA Series which is conservatively rated at 15 Micron. No other filter does this.

If an engine running AMSOIL builds up any sludge, it will usually be due to Nitration of the oil which IS a mechanical problem, not an oil problem.

We just did oil analysis on 3 identical bikes, all right at 10,000 miles.. 2 came back "No Corrective Action Required, Continue To Next Regular Service Interval" One came back with elevated Silicon (Dirt) and wear metals. This was my bike... The only real difference between these 3 bikes... I had a piece of junk K&N Filter on it that the Dealer installed. The oil itself was still serviceable but too contaminated for my liking even though the UOA did not come back "Critical"

The K&N is now gone and an AMSOIL Nano Fiber has been put in its place, which flows as well as a wetted gauze and filters up to 50 times better.

I agree about the "looks" of oil but in everyday applications, it is an indicator.

As far as Ester content, AMSOIL uses the amount of Esters required to give the oil polarity. Use of too much Ester can be harmful to seals and gaskets..


Bob Schultz
If you have sludge it is more then NOX issue here. Too much este’sr will not harm anything. Redline has more then Amsoil and you are fine..

Amsoil SDF filter’s where Not all they were. K&N and Mobil where up to there par and cheaper. Again, been there done that. I have used fram and wix along with Amsoil SDF and those results where not in favor of Amsoil. I am not knocking Amsoil but their dealers, most, have no clue on the product they sign up to sell. What do you want for $30 a year. LOL

If your bike came back with “no corrective action”, 1,000,000 to 1 it was done via UOA and you can have viscosioty move up etc and be fine via them.

My last 3 runs was running a fram oil and K&N air and the wears where close to a Amsoil but at 1/3 the cost..

I like Amsoil but my point is do not be sucked into Amsoil's marketing BS..After 15+ years of it, most dealers do not have a clue.
=
 

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Discussion Starter #47
If you have sludge it is more then NOX issue here. Too much este’sr will not harm anything. Redline has more then Amsoil and you are fine..

You need to do a little more research. An Ester Based oil can cause problems with some seals and gaskets.

Amsoil SDF filter’s where Not all they were. K&N and Mobil where up to there par and cheaper. Again, been there done that. I have used fram and wix along with Amsoil SDF and those results where not in favor of Amsoil. I am not knocking Amsoil but their dealers, most, have no clue on the product they sign up to sell. What do you want for $30 a year. LOL

The SDF filters were approximately 17 Micron @ 87% Capture Efficiency. The K&N is advertised at 20 Micron but has a poor Capture Efficiency. The Mobil, although it does a fair job at about 19 Micron at 76% Capture Efficiency utilizes a stamped steel by-pass spring instead of a coil spring. Now a Fram is in the mid 30-40 Micron Range at 50%. It is one of the poorest quality filters on the market for Micron Ratings, Capture Efficiency and construction utilizing hot glued cardboard end caps that have been know to seperate.

One of my customers works for an Independent Company that tests these filters and has also tested the Donoldson Media that is supplied to AMSOIL for the EA Series filters. The EA Series Filters actually test Better than the 15 Micron AMSOIL Claims.


If your bike came back with “no corrective action”, 1,000,000 to 1 it was done via UOA and you can have viscosioty move up etc and be fine via them.

That is not a true statement at all. I only use ISO Certified Labs and they will tell you to change the oil if the Viscosity is too high. I have a test report sitting here that shows that. So again, you are propogating mis-information.

My last 3 runs was running a fram oil and K&N air and the wears where close to a Amsoil but at 1/3 the cost..

Not sure what lab you are using, but I'll bet money they are not ISO Certified.


I like Amsoil but my point is do not be sucked into Amsoil's marketing BS..After 15+ years of it, most dealers do not have a clue.
=
My point is... That is why you were only a Dealer for one year. You attended no training classes or purchased any training materials. You obviously thought you already knew it all. This is my full time job. I have been with AMSOIL Since 1984 and if you see George on here, he has been with AMSOIL Since 1980.

We don't make our living by just buying a Dealership for $30.00, it is our life and our livelyhood. We attend periodic training classes and purchase training materials from AMSOIL and outside sources. We do not just take AMSOIL's word automatically across the board. Our Independent Research, however, has always backed anything AMSOIL Says and in many cases has shown AMSOIL to be an overly conservative company in their product statements.


Bob Schultz
 

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My point is... That is why you were only a Dealer for one year. You attended no training classes or purchased any training materials. You obviously thought you already knew it all. This is my full time job. I have been with AMSOIL Since 1984 and if you see George on here, he has been with AMSOIL Since 1980.

We don't make our living by just buying a Dealership for $30.00, it is our life and our livelyhood. We attend periodic training classes and purchase training materials from AMSOIL and outside sources. We do not just take AMSOIL's word automatically across the board. Our Independent Research, however, has always backed anything AMSOIL Says and in many cases has shown AMSOIL to be an overly conservative company in their product statements.

Bob Schultz
I was a dealer a lot longer then 1 year. Most like over, OVER 15
 

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SDF Filters outperformed all other filters on the market but have been gone for 3 years now. They have been replaced by the EA Series which is conservatively rated at 15 Micron. No other filter does this.

If an engine running AMSOIL builds up any sludge, it will usually be due to Nitration of the oil which IS a mechanical problem, not an oil problem.

We just did oil analysis on 3 identical bikes, all right at 10,000 miles.. 2 came back "No Corrective Action Required, Continue To Next Regular Service Interval" One came back with elevated Silicon (Dirt) and wear metals. This was my bike... The only real difference between these 3 bikes... I had a piece of junk K&N Filter on it that the Dealer installed. The oil itself was still serviceable but too contaminated for my liking even though the UOA did not come back "Critical"

The K&N is now gone and an AMSOIL Nano Fiber has been put in its place, which flows as well as a wetted gauze and filters up to 50 times better.

I agree about the "looks" of oil but in everyday applications, it is an indicator.

As far as Ester content, AMSOIL uses the amount of Esters required to give the oil polarity. Use of too much Ester can be harmful to seals and gaskets..


Bob Schultz


Sorry Bob- I know what Amsoil PR says and several UOA houses. In fact, my last 3 fram’s UOA came back very close to Amsoil old SDF. SDF came out due to Mobil filter being better. I am running Amsoil Ea0 right now. See if they are worth it. I know all the dealers pimp they are but I will let the oil testing house test me; I do not go by UOA 100% of the time either. In fact, like <50%


If your test come back with “no corrective action…” you are using UOA as a house. They do not give you the best results. For the price they are cheap but you do not get the best info either.

I know all about sludge and I know how Amsoil is. I do not use it (ASL) anymore since it performed crappy. I know they re-formed the oil since they had issue with it. Was not just me either.

I know how Amsoil dealers are and what Amsoil stance is for there dealers on forums too. I am not knocking there product but I have been there and their oils are good but there are some others that are just as good.

You can have high esters in oil and be fine..In fact you cannot see esters in a UOA either.
 

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My point is... That is why you were only a Dealer for one year. You attended no training classes or purchased any training materials. You obviously thought you already knew it all. This is my full time job. I have been with AMSOIL Since 1984 and if you see George on here, he has been with AMSOIL Since 1980.

We don't make our living by just buying a Dealership for $30.00, it is our life and our livelyhood. We attend periodic training classes and purchase training materials from AMSOIL and outside sources. We do not just take AMSOIL's word automatically across the board. Our Independent Research, however, has always backed anything AMSOIL Says and in many cases has shown AMSOIL to be an overly conservative company in their product statements.

Bob Schultz
Again, I will take a oil testing house comments over a dealers. I could careless on the construction of fram etc. If they give me constant UOA’s, they are fine by me. I know who makes Amsoil filters and they have for years before making them for Amsoil.

PS, the lab that gave me the Fram results for over 4 UOA’s was YOUR Amsoil’s UOA lab!.So they are not ISO cert now? I talked enough to Ed in TC on the results. And they WHERE the ones that stated time and time again that my vis went up a grade and NOX and OXD were higher then normal and stated “no corrective action….BS”. After that I do not buy what they state..

Again, I took your belvoed ASL added LC20 to it and the UOA come back with 55% lower wears, TBN stable, NOX/OXD lower then normal then using Amsoil ASL alone… Sorry but UOA results win over marketing. I did this for 3 baseline UOA.
 

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My point is... That is why you were only a Dealer for one year. You attended no training classes or purchased any training materials. You obviously thought you already knew it all. This is my full time job. I have been with AMSOIL Since 1984 and if you see George on here, he has been with AMSOIL Since 1980.

We don't make our living by just buying a Dealership for $30.00, it is our life and our livelyhood. We attend periodic training classes and purchase training materials from AMSOIL and outside sources. We do not just take AMSOIL's word automatically across the board. Our Independent Research, however, has always backed anything AMSOIL Says and in many cases has shown AMSOIL to be an overly conservative company in their product statements.

Bob Schultz
Again, I will take a oil testing house comments over a dealers. I could careless on the construction of fram etc. If they give me constant UOA’s, they are fine by me. I know who makes Amsoil filters and they have for years before making them for Amsoil.

PS, the lab that gave me the Fram results for over 4 UOA’s was YOUR Amsoil’s UOA lab!.So they are not ISO cert now? I talked enough to Ed in TC on the results. And they WERE the ones that stated time and time again that my vis went up a grade and NOX and OXD were higher then normal and stated “no corrective action….BS”. After that I do not buy what they state..

I am not saying Amsoil is a bad oil. I think it is a good oil. There are other SM rated oil that are just as good. What I do not like it Amsoil BS in market...Example, in there last action news they had a graph on oil increase...They rated Amsoil the lowest but what they did not figure into the cost was the dealership $$$$...I trust there marketing like <25%.

Edit: There price is going up like 7 to 8% next month I was told.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
I guess our UOA's are different... If the oil is serviceable, it is serviceable..

Major trucking companies and Industrial Plants are among some of the places that utilize UOA's, not just to see the condition of the oil, but as a preventative maintenance tool for early detection of possible problems.

I have customers with diesel Pickups that are running 200,000 and more without changing oil utilizing AMSOIL By-Pass filtration and oil analysis. Also, trucking companies that have been able to extend oil drains to 80,000 miles using AMSOIL and Oil Analysis.

UOA, when used properly is a tool for maintenance and reliability. Used improperly, it can give false results.

Yes, prices are going up Aug 1st and so are everyone elses.

Bob Schultz
 

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I guess our UOA's are different... If the oil is serviceable, it is serviceable..

Major trucking companies and Industrial Plants are among some of the places that utilize UOA's, not just to see the condition of the oil, but as a preventative maintenance tool for early detection of possible problems.

I have customers with diesel Pickups that are running 200,000 and more without changing oil utilizing AMSOIL By-Pass filtration and oil analysis. Also, trucking companies that have been able to extend oil drains to 80,000 miles using AMSOIL and Oil Analysis.

UOA, when used properly is a tool for maintenance and reliability. Used improperly, it can give false results.

Yes, prices are going up Aug 1st and so are everyone elses.

Bob Schultz


I understand how UOA work and the basis for them. Finding the condition of oil is a by-product of the main function of the UOA. That has been happening for like 20+ years. I never said I do not understand them. Throw in a by-pass $$$ and make up oil $$$, good luck. I looked at that for my diesels and price was not worth it. I even looked at them for my car and the filters would cost more then a complete oil change for my car. Extended oil changes come at a price and you need to compare it.

Again you seem to be using Amsoil UOA labs and be careful. They are not great. There “No Corrective Action Required, Continue To Next Regular Service Interval” is a typical response. I have had over 1% fuel, oil thick/thin 1 complete grade etc and said I was fine. They are better labs out there and get better data (results). I stated prior on why I dislike Amsoil UOA lab. Clear as day on their UOA results from there lab. You can also show 10 bikes, same model etc and a have all diff numbers. Based on mfg this is normal.

But you state “I agree about the "looks" of oil but in everyday applications, it is an indicator.” So when I throw in Series 3000 oil and 1000 miles it is black, that is a good indicator? Of what? It is meaningless.

Also I know how testing and re-world are not the same. I also know that Amsoil EAo were tested beyond their 25K miles they pimp. For over $11 to $13 a filter I hope it is better since it is 4X the price. It better give me 4X the performance or it is no more. But ask Amsoil how they even came up with the 25K per oil change…Interesting.

Why do all Amosil dealers say K&N are junk? I am running one in my GSXR since day/mile 0…Silicone is <9 ppm on its yearly UOA using Fram. Say I use amsoil filters will be engine longevity increase by the delta, nope. No one can answer that.

You said you do not know the price increase as noted prior. It is noted before by Amsoil on the increase %.

I still use Amsoil but going to try (again) another oil since it seems Amsoil is putting less and less ZDDP in theirs. I used their 20w-50 for years in the white bottle but now switched to there 10w-40. night and day.

My point to this thread was take the marketing as worthless. Test your oil and find a baseline and go with it. Trust marketing less and less since most times it is <50% as good at is pushed. I think it is a very good oil but their dealers make it less appealing.

PS. Do not take it personal. I always take the side of the underdog. :punk :)
 

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I would not go by engine oil color unless you are superman. I good dealer should tell you that. I have see and tested oil for about 20 years and seen black oil test great and clear oil bad. I was a dealer for year and stopped.

Only true way is UOA’s.

Amsoil engine oil is good but it is no cleaner; too low of ester count. Used Amsoil since 1990 (along with other gas/diesel oils) and you think your engine is clean. Throw in Lc20, for example and it will become black since it is cleaning. Heck throw in Lc and watch UOA come back 100% better. Been there done that.

Amsoil filter are good but I know there last SDF tested okay on my bike when compared to others I have used. For the price there SDF where overpriced.
the oil was sent out for a o.a and came back in great shape but i was commiting on how clean is was when drained.. i know that you cant tell how good any oil is just buy color`
 

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Discussion Starter #55
the oil was sent out for a o.a and came back in great shape but i was commiting on how clean is was when drained.. i know that you cant tell how good any oil is just buy color`
Oil Analysis, when used properly is definitely worth the expense. I use it myself.

Bob Schultz
 

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i have a question Mr. AMSOIL guy, i would love to use amsoil in my bike but i got a couple of friends that have the same bike and they said once they put the amsoil in they couldnt find gears at times and as soon as they drained it out and put in regular conventional oil the problem went away, whats up with that?
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Normally, it is quite the opposite.

BUT, I do have a personal experience to relate... I had bought a used bike a few years ago and after a couple hundred miles, I switched out to AMSOIL MCF 10W-40 MotorCycle Specific oil.

Shifts were even smoother immediately. I had a group coming up to ride the Mtns here including The Dragon that coming weekend. I got a little worried when within 300 miles, the shifts got pretty crunchy but didn't have time to deal with it. After about 1300 miles of riding the shifts became smoother again and never a problem after that.

What we came up with was that there was probably wax buildup and as the AMSOIL cleaned it out, it was causing the shift problems until it completely dissolved it.

In most cases and quite noticeable on the Suzuki Boulevards, the shifts get quite a bit smoother, Especially the 1-2 shift on the 109, along with fewer false neutrals and easier to find neutrals.

Bob Schultz
 

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the oil was sent out for a o.a and came back in great shape but i was commiting on how clean is was when drained.. i know that you cant tell how good any oil is just buy color`
Kind of saying two diff things here. :punk

Whom cares on how clean it looks..If it is clear, you either have a clean engine (1,000,000 it needs to be cleaned), the fluid is not cleaning (not enough adds) or its adds are not holding dirt in fluid.

Heck I just changed Amsoil ASM with EaO filter last night. Oil was black as tar with only 2,500 miles.

Ride on dude...:burnout:cheers
 
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