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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I finally determined which configuration would work the best with the "T" fitting. It's kind of tight but every thing fits. The TL-S cooler has just enough room to be out of the way of the swing arm and chain. So here's what it looks like...

here's the "T" setup...the banjo on the right is coming from the cooler.
















Lets hope it works.
 

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Jeff is right about its placement, but actually just having the extra length of lines and the volume of extra oil in them and the additional cooler should help alot anyways
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The considerations for placement were...

...good airflow. The pocket of air on the RG there doesn't have the full plastic covering the G/H models have. There's flow of air, maybe not as good as the front but it's adequate.

...drainage of oil. When the motor is running it pumps oil through the line. When you shut the motor off gravity tries to retrive that oil and put in the main galley. By placing the majority of the volume equal to or lower than the exit port under the carbs, oil can't return to the galley. This reduces the time the engine/valves/pistons are without oil at start-up.

...where could it fit? I would have like to put it back further and have it horizontal rather than vertical. The one thing it lacks to do tthat is a one way backcheck valve. The only ones I could find are huge (like twice the size of the -8 lines I used) and were intended for air or water. The temperature ratings of the ones I found were only good to 110 degrees centigrade. Oil gets much hotter than that.

If anyone can put me in contact with a compatible valve to resolve the temp/gravity issue I'd do it in a blink and get the cooler in a place for better air flow than it gets now.

But until the starter issue is resolved, THe motor is plenty cool.
 

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offhand that doesn't seem like the best place to have the cooler sit.....how about further rearward and up into the solo tail section?

ideally you'd also want to have some sort of ventilation at the top of the tail section....you might want to ask bcjohn, he has an auxiliary oil cooler set up that way.

[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: jeff ]</p>
 

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Where is the supply line for the cooler connected?
Did you block off the factory oil supply to the head? It's hard to tell from the pics.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, I'm a lousy photographer. Here's a sketch of it. Pretty basic, It comes out the top of the motor, heads back on the left toward the rear. Goes to the cooler, comes out the cooler toward the front. Goes into the "T" fitting where it splits to the left and right sides of the top/rear of the motor.

 

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by bcklrcr:
The considerations for placement were...

<SNIP>

...where could it fit? I would have like to put it back further and have it horizontal rather than vertical. The one thing it lacks to do tthat is a one way backcheck valve. The only ones I could find are huge (like twice the size of the -8 lines I used) and were intended for air or water. The temperature ratings of the ones I found were only good to 110 degrees centigrade. Oil gets much hotter than that.

If anyone can put me in contact with a compatible valve to resolve the temp/gravity issue I'd do it in a blink and get the cooler in a place for better air flow than it gets now.

But until the starter issue is resolved, THe motor is plenty cool.
<hr></blockquote>

Hello,

Earl's makes a check valve in the -8 size intended for oil and fuel. I don't know the temperature rating but you should be able to call them and find out.

You have 3 oil coolers now; do you run an oil temperature guage to make sure that you are not over cooling the oil? This is from Bell's "Four-Stroke Performance Tuning" book:

An engine should never be driven hard until the oil reached 50 degree C, while the ideal operating temparature is 90 - 100 degree C... Cold oil promotes engine wear and sludge build-up... If under normal driving conditions your oil temperature is in excess of 140 degree C, fit an oil cooler. However, if it stays around 110 - 120 degree C when you run at full throttle for quite a few miles, you will be wasting your time and causing yourself unnecessary trouble by fitting an oil cooler.

Yancy
 

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Yeah, the Earl's one-way check valve is available in Buna or Viton, -8 up to -Godzilla. At any rate, it would solve any dry sumping worries.

My biggest concern with your placement would be nuking of your battery. If you plan on leaving it there, pick up a roll of Thermo-Tec tape and insulate the area around it. Don't use the DEI tape in this particular case, since it doesn't have the necessary insulating thickness.

Is that -8 hosing on the setup you have now??

A lot of the Brits tend to use the same setup you are doing, but mount the additional cooler just above and ahead of the head itself. Tight, but takes care of the flow problem, plus you could well do it with the amount of hose you have there.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hmmm...I'll give Earl's in Indy a call tomorrow.

I've ordered Yosh temp monitor for the motor. If the galley gets too cool, I'll remove the auxillary cooler under the main cooler.

Yes, the lines for the rear all al -8. I verniered the lines and .40" is what I came up with for an ID. Shielding the battery hadn't occurred to me. Makes sense. As for putting the cooler above/infront of the head, there's not enough room. I tried there, and under the headlights too. I almost put it behind the foot peg above the exhaust can. That didn't make any sense though.
 

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Alot of people don't know this but the suzuki oil cooled engines use an oil pressure regulator as sort of a thermostat for the oil cooler. If the pressure to the cooler is high (cold oil) the bypass directs the oil to the engine. If the oil pressure is lower (warm oil) the oil gets routed through the cooler. This only works with the factory cooler lines. I wouldn't get carried away with adding a bunch of extra stuff to the oiling system. As the head tech at the dealership I used to work at says, "who knows more about it you or the guys who built it"

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Edster ]</p>
 

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ed's got a good point there.....if you run an additional oil cooler from anywhere else other than the existing oil cooler lines, the oil will always be flowing through the additional cooler. this would probably just mean that it will take longer for the oil to warm up to operating temperature......but in the worst case (i.e. very good efficiency from the aux cooler), the oil may not reach its normal operating temperature at all! that's not a good thing....

although i think that in bcklrcr's case (and with no offense to him), i think it's safe to say the cooler won't be THAT efficient.....it'll likely just take longer for the oil to warm up. an oil temperature gauge would be a very good idea (i think it's a very good idea for any bike regardless, imho, but especially so in this case).
 

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I have a 92 1100 bored to 1216 and head work, including cams and top end oiling kit. Head is from a bandit, can't use shim head. Dyno's around 150 hp and 85 lbs. Anyway I put an oil temp guage on it and it never gets above 230 F even on the racetrack on a warm day. Normal riding puts it about 140-160 F range. The cooling system is bone stock, except for header wrap. Just thought I would give my 2 cents. You can buy guages from autometer for about 55 dollars.
 

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140-160 degrees in normal riding? that's actually too low.......where did you place the oil temp sensor? you'd want the oil to be at least in the 200 range.


bcklrcr's got an 86 (with a smallish flat oil cooler).....the later gsxr's get nice large curved oil coolers which have substantially greater cooling capacity....
 

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The sensor is right below ignition advancer cover in an oil gallery plug. It takes the temp where the oil is feeding the crankshaft bearings. I live in montana so sometimes its not to hot here. Should I tape part of the cooler off, to keep it warmer? I didn't know the oil temp should be that hot.
 

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you can try taping off the cooler, but honestly, you shouldn't need to.....as ed mentioned before, the oil pressure regulator also acts as an oil thermostat so that the oil won't overcool. at least, it's supposed to if it's working correctly.

when you say 'normal riding', do you mean riding around town? that should definitely keep temps up within the normal operating range (200ish).

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: jeff ]</p>
 

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I try to stay out of town, not always but most of the time. The roads are wide open around here so allot of 100 plus riding. The high speed stuff is usually what I do. In town it usually goes to 180-200, out of town 160. One the racetrack it will sometimes get to 240 if it does it will start pinging at low rpm's. I thought when it makes noises like that it was getting hot, so I usually pull in the pits and shut it off. Maybe the guage is not to accurate, if that's where it should be.

I have another question maybe you could answer. Why does oil temp run hotter than water temp? Like in nascar they say water 190 oil 240 is normal. I know this does not apply to my bike, but something I've always wondered.
 

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ah, okay, if you're blasting around at 100+ sustained, the 160f makes more sense under those conditions. (i sort of suspected as much....it would take an incredible cooling system to keep the oil at 140-160 around town.)

what are the specs on your motor? you might be a candidate for an auxiliary oil cooler (or two
) if you're on the track a lot. the old suzuki superbikes used to run multiple (as in upwards of 3 or more) oil coolers, and even then, they would run too hot and start to lose power.


oil tends to run hotter than coolant because it's in direct contact with the hot running internal parts.....oil is fed to bearing journals, cams, rocker arms, valves, tranny gears, sprayed underneath the pistons, etc. coolant basically just flows through water jackets in the motor.

and oil also unfortunately doesn't give up (or absorb, even) its heat as easily as water does.


if somebody could come up with an oil that is as thermally efficient as water without sacrificing any lubricative properties, there would be no need to have a separate (coolant based) cooling system.


[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: jeff ]</p>
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yes, I've been aware that the pressure regulator sends oil through the cooling system after the PRESSURE reaches 300 or greater. I'm at work and I don't have the unit of measument but it wasn't an issue. I've run the cooler since a couple of months ago and it works just fine. I get plenty of heat from the motor even still. As I stated previously, next spring I'll chart the range of running temperatures with the coolers configured in all the ways I can. I can always take coolers off and make it run hotter.

As for the cooler I've just added. It supplies oil constantly. There is no pressure/temp related control for it. It supplies oil when the motor is running to the valves/underside of the pistons. I'll be putting the Yosh temp guage in the same place as GSXR1216. It replaces the oil pressure sending unit that is stock.

With all the years of education behind me I've learned one important thing...document everything. I run more QC on much more sophisticated analyzers than a gixxer daily. I've done research that has required me to develop consistant and repeatable methods. Oil cooling systems are easy compared to any human system.

Oh, and I ordered a -8 flapper valve from Earl's. it lets flow occur at 1psi and closes at 0psi. It was $52 plus shipping. I should be able to get that rear cooler in an area of better circulation.

Thanks
 
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