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6th gear has left the building

694 Views 21 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  south-750
Well, had a few bad shifts while riding the other day, like it was stuck between gears with lots of grinding. Then a bit later went to shift into 6th gear and it just grinds if I apply load to it. I'm guessing the engagement dogs are worn or broken off. Pretty upsetting since the bike is in really good shape otherwise, the engine is strong.

I called a couple shops and one gave me a ballpark figure of $4k (CAD) for a rebuild. He was talking about replacing all the bearings too. I think he was referring to the main bearings, does that sound right?

I've been scouring through every thread and youtube video on gearbox rebuilds and see people just replacing what's broken inside the gearbox. How do you ensure that you remove all the chunks of metal that broke off?

Also tried looking for a used engine but can't seem to find anything. Nor do I really want to put in a used engine with who knows what wrong with it.

Any advice would be appreciated!
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$4k sound crazy. Don't you have a three piece crankcase and we're talking about removing the lower crankcase to replace failed transmission parts? Can you do things like removing & reinstalling the engine? Check the magnet on the drain plug or the strainer in the oil pickup.
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save $3,800 and do it yourself ... good grief, we charge "$160 an hour shop time 1 hours minimum, but our mechanics are worth maybe $100 an hour, that's what they pay you they're that bad"

any good mechanic can do this job in a day, 8 hours.. $1280 + parts, you can get a good used trans for what $200?

a $160 an hour mechanic can do this job in 4-5 hours, $800 @ $160 an hour..

if a mechanic can not do this work in that time with perfection sorry he is not worth $160 an hour, PERIOD!

I know they have all sorts of excuses why they charge what they do "we have overhead yadda yadda" welp you can make your $160 an hour or not, your choice cuz I will take it to someone who can or do it myself...

never let on you cannot do it yourself, just let them know you don't want to take the time to do it but you will if you have to, the shop isn't paying siad mechanic $160 an hour, maybe $35, so the shop will make $125 an hour for providing the shop, for $4000 they want to make $600 an hour, what a joke, replacing a trans is a cakewalk, it's all modular. drop in a good used cluster forks and barrel, inspect bearings, new seals...

you don't have to split the cylinders just remove the lower, new gasket that's it, seals whatever go for it.. it's not complicated at all, removing the engine is most of the work.. jack stands, floor jack.. bench or engine stand..
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Thanks guys, I'm pretty confident I can do this myself. I just wonder if any of the slivers of metal would have made their way over to the crank and interfere with the bearings or into oil galleries, or do I have no idea what I'm talking about here?
What do you mean you had a few bad shifts? Were you getting bad shifting on all gears?

Maybe there is something going wrong with the shift shaft or the shift lever is binding
and not allowing a full shift into gears?

30K is a bit early for gears to wear out in my opinion.
Thanks guys, I'm pretty confident I can do this myself. I just wonder if any of the slivers of metal would have made their way over to the crank and interfere with the bearings or into oil galleries, or do I have no idea what I'm talking about here?
You probably have way more than "slivers of metal" if you get continuous gear grinding when trying to shift.

Bill is right. The "lower crankcase" comes off if you take the oil pan off and undo another series of bolts. This then reveals the two transmission shafts, since this bike doesn't have the stacked transmissions like newer models. You also have to remove the shift shaft and detent mechanism before getting there I believe, so you should be able to find your issue if it's not just a binding shift linkage/pedal, or a clutch that won't disengage. Pistons, top end, and cylinder head can theoretically all stay on.

I had a dragging clutch on my 750, and I found out the shop book has the wrong clutch plate installation order. I rebuilt the clutch the way I suspected it was supposed to be instead and my clutch stopped dragging and has a perfectly wide friction zone now. It made shifting clunky and poor, and it was hard to find neutral, but definitely no grinding.

So before you rip the engine out and apart, check those things first. Can you shift through all 6 gears on the bench with the engine off? You should be able to rolling the rear wheel back and forth gently.

And indeed, 30k miles is nothing. Mine just crossed 50k and it runs great. 30k miles might be a lot though if it was 30,000 miles of gear grinding and poor shifting though...

Hope this helps. If the issue does prove to be something inside, there is a lot of inspections to check components for wear and damage.

-Mike
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Started the disassembly today, got everything disconnected and the engine is ready to be dropped. Dropped the oil pan to have a look inside, it's pretty gnarly and there was more in the drain pan when I drained the oil as well. Though I have seen much worse in other forum posts where people replaced broken gears so I'm hoping I can make this work.

Now just waiting on the tool for the engine mount thrust adjuster nuts.
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@SparkyMJ The bike only has 24k miles! The clutch is working fine, I can shift through the gears with the bike on or off no problem. The "bad shifts" I was referring to only happened when using the quick shifter, not exactly sure why. When I purchased the bike the shifter where it clamps onto the shift shaft was loose so perhaps the previous owner had caused some damage. Also the actual shift lever where it mounts to the footpeg, I think the bushing is worn out because there is a fair amount of play in it. I'm sure that didn't help either.
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Oh. I didn't know this was caused by a quickshifter, you hadn't mentioned that.

In that case, you shouldn't use the QS if there is grinding or gear popping at all. You should stop and adjust the settings or fix the linkage/sensor. I would guess you're going to say it has been adjusted and it works in the other gears just fine except certain gears, but it probably still means your cut and delay times aren't long enough. I have the Healtech iQSE and it works great, and I have set the cut times and delay pretty generously. I made the cut longer than it has to be by a bit, because too short could damage stuff maybe like you're finding. I'm not racing for a podium finish, so I set it to a very relaxed setting, and I still get the fun in using it. It's never missed a shift once except during my initial tuning.

But indeed the shavings you've got aren't too bad, but definitely not good. I had to buy the socket for the thrust adjusters as well. I got the motionpro one and it kinda sucks. It's not deep enough; the 3/8 extension that fits in it prevents the socket from sitting all the way on the thrust adjuster... Hope you didn't get that one, but if you did, it's fiddly.

Honestly if the bike was shifting fine without the QS system, I wouldn't take the engine apart. I was under the impression that you were grinding gears with the clutch in trying to shift conventionally, and if that was the case, that would be bad news. But gear grinding, false neutrals, gears jumping out, ground down gear dogs, these are all just symptoms or ailments caused by an improper QS setup.

Hope this helps. Maybe save you from having to split the crankcase parts.

-Mike
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sounds like you need a new rearset and linkage, if he went down it prolly tweeked something? doesn't take much if that shift linkage binds, if it shifted fine without the quick shifter then somewhere in there lies your problem more likely than not? specially if it shifts fine without it.. won't hurt to inspect for sure, inspect inside out.. good luck
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So the quickshifter and the linkage may have been part of the cause of this, but regardless, sixth gear at the very least needs to be replaced. I cannot place any load whatsoever on the gear without it slipping and grinding, whether I shift with the clutch or not. The bike is unrideable and I can't risk causing any more damage. I'm opening it up this weekend hopefully. If anyone has any experience transmissions and what else to inspect in there, I would gladly accept any advice!
It looks like you have it in hand, but my 2c. I had 5th go on the back straight at Donington. K5 750 with 18k miles and a quickshifter (PC3 quickshifter in that case). I've spoken to a guy at the track with a K5 600 who also broke a gear and blames it on the quickshifter. Anyway, make of that what you will.

I did the whole job myself. I dropped the motor, flipped it over, took off the sump and sub-block and the whole gearbox is right there. To be clear, it's still a lot of work pulling stuff apart, but totally doable. In my case, the shift fork was worn pretty badly and the dogs on 5th were badly rounded. I think the fork wore and then was under-engaging the gears.

So I bought a second-hand gearbox from a 2017 GSX-S750 and replaced all the gears and one of the shafts. And turned the buggered fork into a keyring. :)

Take lots of photos, collect bolts and bits that go together in ziplocks and crack on.

Edit: I've DM'd you my album of photos from my rebuild.
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It looks like you have it in hand, but my 2c. I had 5th go on the back straight at Donington. K5 750 with 18k miles and a quickshifter (PC3 quickshifter in that case). I've spoken to a guy at the track with a K5 600 who also broke a gear and blames it on the quickshifter. Anyway, make of that what you will.

I did the whole job myself. I dropped the motor, flipped it over, took off the sump and sub-block and the whole gearbox is right there. To be clear, it's still a lot of work pulling stuff apart, but totally doable. In my case, the shift fork was worn pretty badly and the dogs on 5th were badly rounded. I think the fork wore and then was under-engaging the gears.

So I bought a second-hand gearbox from a 2017 GSX-S750 and replaced all the gears and one of the shafts. And turned the buggered fork into a keyring. :)

Take lots of photos, collect bolts and bits that go together in ziplocks and crack on.

Edit: I've DM'd you my album of photos from my rebuild.

Thanks so much man, really appreciate it. That's interesting to hear about the quickshifter issues you guys had. I'm going to have to really figure that one out before I use the quickshifter again. I am going to throw in a Factorypro shift star and spring while I'm in there, hopefully that'll help with the sloppy shifting.

I'm surprised to hear a GSX-S gearbox works in this bike. I would've thought those bikes had different gear ratios? I see a few for sale on ebay but it's hard to tell from the pictures what kind of wear is on the gears and dogs. Anyways I'll only consider what parts I need once I get in there, hopefully it's not too catastrophic lol.
While you're there, you might want to consider a different drain plug. I discussed it here six years ago but the pics were on TinyPic and no longer available. I cross-drilled the head for safety wire and made a small tab on an oil pan bolt for the wire's other end. The AliExpress link still works. I can resurrect the pics if you're interested. As I recall, its magnet is better positioned and more powerful than Suzuki's.
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What part of Canada are you in? I have an engine in Seattle.
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What part of Canada are you in? I have an engine in Seattle.
PM'd
I'm surprised to hear a GSX-S gearbox works in this bike. I would've thought those bikes had different gear ratios? I see a few for sale on ebay but it's hard to tell from the pictures what kind of wear is on the gears and dogs. Anyways I'll only consider what parts I need once I get in there, hopefully it's not too catastrophic lol.
The ratios are the same for me, with the 750, but would be different for you with the 600.
The ratios are the same for me, with the 750, but would be different for you with the 600.
I do have a 750. Looking at the part numbers for the GSX-S gears, they are very similar to the GSX-R gears... Did you notice any difference in how the bike rides with those gears? I may have to go this route because I priced out parts for what I need and it's uh... pretty steep. My 5th, 3rd/4th and 6th gears are all trashed. And the 3rd/4th fork.
That sounds like time for a used motor man. Probably more economical, easier, and then you'd have spare parts too. Find a salvage yard or used motor out of a crash bike online I'd say.

-Mike
I do have a 750. Looking at the part numbers for the GSX-S gears, they are very similar to the GSX-R gears... Did you notice any difference in how the bike rides with those gears? I may have to go this route because I priced out parts for what I need and it's uh... pretty steep. My 5th, 3rd/4th and 6th gears are all trashed. And the 3rd/4th fork.
They're identical. It's literally the same motor with a few tweaks. You can't use the output shaft, because the GSX-S750 shaft isn't threaded to take the castellated crankshaft pickup bolt. But the rest swaps over as is. I bought the whole gearbox, including shift forks, for $100. You can also use the 01-03 750 gearbox if you find a nice one.

If you can find a nice motor, that's a great option, with the caveats that all used motors come with.

Edit: there's a nice 2020 one on eBay for $150 now, albeit without the forks.
They're identical. It's literally the same motor with a few tweaks. You can't use the output shaft, because the GSX-S750 shaft isn't threaded to take the castellated crankshaft pickup bolt. But the rest swaps over as is. I bought the whole gearbox, including shift forks, for $100. You can also use the 01-03 750 gearbox if you find a nice one.

If you can find a nice motor, that's a great option, with the caveats that all used motors come with.

Edit: there's a nice 2020 one on eBay for $150 now, albeit without the forks.
Thanks, yeah I went through the parts fiche last night and saw they are the same, I only need the input shaft gears, the other set of gears on mine look really good. I also saw that one on ebay, think I'll grab it. I don't mind buying new forks, it's the gears that are crazy expensive. I'm going to replace all the seals in there too while I have it open. Thanks again man, if I can get this thing running this summer I will owe you one big time!!
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