[blagle]

Hi All,

Re-posting this as I originally had it in General discussion.
Grateful for some ideas on why my bike won't start. The bike was running beautifully about 6 years ago before it went into storage. I did start it every six months or so and usually it kicked over first go. I recently tried to start it and it backfired so badly I thought I'd been shot! (yes I was stupid and didn't drain the tank of old fuel). I decided it was time for some maintenance and pulled the carbs out and cleaned them up. I stripped it completely but did not touch float heights or do bench sync. I'm fairly new to carbs work and assumed this would be ok given it used to run well. I did put in new diaphragms though as I got carb clean on the old ones and didn't want to risk using them as they might perish. Bike started first go when put back together but idled very high and kept rising (about 3000rpm) - guessing it needed syncing.

Anyway, I left it to sit another 12 months due to other priorities and I now seem to be back to square one. Bike barely starts at all now (yes I drained the tank and carbs and added new fuel). The best description I can give is that it is very hard to start and when it does it splutters at idle, won't really rev and sounds like it's running on two cylinders. When it stopped whispy light smoke continued to come out of the muffler! I noticed that exhaust headers 1&4 where very hot but 2&3 were stone cold! I checked for spark and that was OK, perhaps a little weak on one plug but relatively OK. Bike had new plugs when I cleaned carbs.

Grateful for any advice and wondering if I stuffed up by not doing bench sync on carbs or float heights. Oh yes, I adjusted the tappets too when I cleaned the carbs. Also renewed fuel lines too as still had original from 1990! Should mention I did jump start it off my running car - could this damage regulator/coil. Didn't realise this was not a good idea until reading some forums.

Sorry about the long post, grateful for advice/thoughts. Bike is in good nick, only 38,000km (24,000miles) on the clock and would love to get it back on the road again now I have more time to ride.

Cheers

 

[sradmad600]

Swap the coils over to see if the hot cylinders alternates, hows fuel flow pressure.

 

[blagle]

Swap the coils over to see if the hot cylinders alternates, hows fuel flow pressure.

Thanks, I'll swap the coils over today and see how that goes. Not sure about fuel pressure and how to measure that. I can say that when I drained the carbs of old fuel it did flow out of two of them a bit quicker.

 

[sradmad600]

Have you got a manual for her, will give you the info you will need. Let us know how you get on.

 

[blagle]

Have you got a manual for her, will give you the info you will need. Let us know how you get on.

Yeah just going through the manual now to see tests for coils. I might also test the spark again making up a gig to test that it can jump 8mm as per manual. I recall the spark being a bit on the orange side (rather than strong and blue) so maybe a coil is on the way out. Could using the car to start the bike damage the coil? tanks again

 

[blagle]

Yeah just going through the manual now to see tests for coils. I might also test the spark again making up a gig to test that it can jump 8mm as per manual. I recall the spark being a bit on the orange side (rather than strong and blue) so maybe a coil is on the way out. Could using the car to start the bike damage the coil? tanks again

Update - coils tested with primary resistance on each side being 3.2ohms and secondary resistance about 32,000 and 34,000. Both within spec according to the manual. Also Tested spark jump using 8mm gap and all made the jump. Wouldn't say the spark was super strong and number three was a bit intermittent and sparked once after I stopped cranking the engine. Is this normal? Possibly a dodgy lead?

 

[sradmad600]

Yeah just going through the manual now to see tests for coils. I might also test the spark again making up a gig to test that it can jump 8mm as per manual. I recall the spark being a bit on the orange side (rather than strong and blue) so maybe a coil is on the way out. Could using the car to start the bike damage the coil? tanks again

Starting off the car can cause damage on a bike to many circuits\parts of a bike. People argue all the time that it`s ok, ever started your car off your bike ?

 

[blagle]

Starting off the car can cause damage on a bike to many circuits\parts of a bike. People argue all the time that it`s ok, ever started your car off your bike ?

Yeah Ive done it a few times on this bike because its been in storage and always had a flat battery. Wish I'd known, Really hoping I haven't done major damage. seems I may have stuffed a bike that was running well before storage. Getting hard to know where to go from here. Guess I'll look at the signal generator next and then the only thing left is the IC igniter (can't really check that though without going to dealer from what Ive read.

 

[sradmad600]

Yeah Ive done it a few times on this bike because its been in storage and always had a flat battery. Wish I'd known, Really hoping I haven't done major damage. seems I may have stuffed a bike that was running well before storage. Getting hard to know where to go from here. Guess I'll look at the signal generator next and then the only thing left is the IC igniter (can't really check that though without going to dealer from what Ive read.

Just a case of testing everything you can, see what is left and how it goes.

 

[blagle]

Any idea about testing the signal regulator? Pulled the cover off last night and the wires go into a plastic casing so you can't get a multimeter onto any bare wires. Didn't really want to cut the wires as that seems a bit destructive. Thoughts?

Just a case of testing everything you can, see what is left and how it goes.

 

[blagle]

Any idea about testing the signal regulator? Pulled the cover off last night and the wires go into a plastic casing so you can't get a multimeter onto any bare wires. Didn't really want to cut the wires as that seems a bit destructive. Thoughts?

Found the signal generator terminals! 165ohms - in spec. Only thing left is the IC igniter or I check carbs.

 

[Fireteacher]

You’ve mentioned only once about draining fuel after rebuilding the carbs and I interpret that draining to only be draining the float bowls. I don’t read anywhere that you ever used fuel stabilizer during storage or that the tank was drained.
Regardless of those nuances of fuel drainage/stabilization, I believe this is a carburetor issue as well as one other thing. Although you have changed plugs at some point and checked for spark, my experience has been that plugs—and not all at the same time—are easily fouled or compromised during the type of hard starting you have had while the carburetors have likely not been working properly and/or contaminated with bad fuel.
I would recommend cleaning or replacing your plugs, then starting the bike making sure it is with fresh gas. If it starts and can stay running, get some strong carb cleaner or a high dosage of that into the fuel and run it under load, hopefully on the road as much as possible. You may get away with cleaning the system out this way.
Otherwise, I’m afraid that a full carb cleaning is the last resort to get it running.


Sent from PG Meades’s iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[blagle]

You’ve mentioned only once about draining fuel after rebuilding the carbs and I interpret that draining to only be draining the float bowls. I don’t read anywhere that you ever used fuel stabilizer during storage or that the tank was drained.
Regardless of those nuances of fuel drainage/stabilization, I believe this is a carburetor issue as well as one other thing. Although you have changed plugs at some point and checked for spark, my experience has been that plugs—and not all at the same time—are easily fouled or compromised during the type of hard starting you have had while the carburetors have likely not been working properly and/or contaminated with bad fuel.
I would recommend cleaning or replacing your plugs, then starting the bike making sure it is with fresh gas. If it starts and can stay running, get some strong carb cleaner or a high dosage of that into the fuel and run it under load, hopefully on the road as much as possible. You may get away with cleaning the system out this way.
Otherwise, I’m afraid that a full carb cleaning is the last resort to get it running.


Sent from PG Meades’s iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Fireteacher,

Thx for the reply. Yes I did have old fuel in the tank when I tried to first start the bike. Wouldn't start so I then drained the tank and float bowls and added fresh fuel. I also removed the plugs and gave them a clean. They were brand new plugs but did get oily after my failed attempts to start the bike. I gave them a clean but still no luck starting. I'll buy some new ones today and try again. I'll also try the cleaner if I can get her to run. cheers

 

[blagle]

Hi Fireteacher,

Thx for the reply. Yes I did have old fuel in the tank when I tried to first start the bike. Wouldn't start so I then drained the tank and float bowls and added fresh fuel. I also removed the plugs and gave them a clean. They were brand new plugs but did get oily after my failed attempts to start the bike. I gave them a clean but still no luck starting. I'll buy some new ones today and try again. I'll also try the cleaner if I can get her to run. cheers

to clarify I probably should have said the plugs were "wet" rather than "oily".

 

[Fireteacher]

I suspect sucking in that old fuel into the carbs as well as the leftover fuel inside the carbs from the last time it ran is your issue. The gas over time gums up and easily clogs the small passages in the fuel circuits. It’s always so surprising how quickly the gas goes bad and clogs things up, sometimes in a matter of weeks, when not using ethanol free gas and/or stabilizer. Unfortunately, it doesn’t take much to keep it from starting when dealing with old leftover fuel.
Although, there are some workaround methods of getting it to somewhat run with your issues if you can get it started, I think you’ll save a lot of time and heartache, as well as wear and tear on the starter if you just bite the bullet and clean the carbs again. I say that because even if you get it to barely run, trying to get it to run correctly may never happen without a good carb cleaning and rebuild. I probably speak for many here who have desperately tried to get a bike to run with the issues you have and finally did the carb rebuild and cursed themselves for not having done so initially.


Sent from PG Meades’s iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[blagle]

I suspect sucking in that old fuel into the carbs as well as the leftover fuel inside the carbs from the last time it ran is your issue. The gas over time gums up and easily clogs the small passages in the fuel circuits. It’s always so surprising how quickly the gas goes bad and clogs things up, sometimes in a matter of weeks, when not using ethanol free gas and/or stabilizer. Unfortunately, it doesn’t take much to keep it from starting when dealing with old leftover fuel.
Although, there are some workaround methods of getting it to somewhat run with your issues if you can get it started, I think you’ll save a lot of time and heartache, as well as wear and tear on the starter if you just bite the bullet and clean the carbs again. I say that because even if you get it to barely run, trying to get it to run correctly may never happen without a good carb cleaning and rebuild. I probably speak for many here who have desperately tried to get a bike to run with the issues you have and finally did the carb rebuild and cursed themselves for not having done so initially.


Sent from PG Meades’s iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, yes I bought a new battery yesterday and shelled out a little over $600 for jets, needles, o'rings etc. today. Costly but I decided against a repair kit and am going genuine Suzuki parts all the way. As you say, better to get it done right the first time. Got about a three week wait for parts as I'm in Australia so will have a few weeks to prepare the carb for the new hardware. Got new plugs too as I think you're probably right about the previous new set being compromised after all the starting attempts. Hopefully the starter doesn't pack it in next! Will post again when she's back together for those interested in how it pans out. Thanks to all for advice. Cheers

 

[Beairsto Racing]

Pick up an ultrasonic cleaner while you have your wallet open...they're not expensive and you'll wonder why you never bought one years ago.

 

[blagle]

Pick up an ultrasonic cleaner while you have your wallet open...they're not expensive and you'll wonder why you never bought one years ago.

Funny you should mention the ultrasonic cleaner, spoke to my brother yesterday about going halves in one. Never used one but I hear they are worth the investment. Any brands/size you would recommend?

 

[Beairsto Racing]

I think I paid $350 for mine, it's Chinese but I got it through a Canadian distributor...I wanted to deal with someone local if I had issues...never have.
It holds @5 liters, I wish I'd gone the next size up. I'd like to just drop a 4 cylinder rack in.
I've used Simple Green and currently use Spray 9 with good results. They are gentle on rubber parts.
It's one of those tools, that I wish I'd bought sooner.
I did a '49 Chev truck carb yesterday and the set off my '64 Honda Superhawk today.

 

[blagle]

I think I paid $350 for mine, it's Chinese but I got it through a Canadian distributor...I wanted to deal with someone local if I had issues...never have.
It holds @5 liters, I wish I'd gone the next size up. I'd like to just drop a 4 cylinder rack in.
I've used Simple Green and currently use Spray 9 with good results. They are gentle on rubber parts.
It's one of those tools, that I wish I'd bought sooner.
I did a '49 Chev truck carb yesterday and the set off my '64 Honda Superhawk today.

thanks, good info regarding size. I'll go a bit bigger as I'm also pulling apart an old Audi at the moment so will come m handy for that too.