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Why not a Sports Bike for a First Bike ?

83K views 369 replies 260 participants last post by  Ironhead401 
#1 ·
After a rash of posts about what bike to get as a first bike, and a lot of posts defending the reasoning behind "only a 600" or "having respect", or "too big to ride a small bike"....

Why not a GSXR/R6/ZXR/CBR/996 etc?

Well, I am not sure that the fact that these are "only 600's" means a great deal, they are seen as "slow" by newer riders, and therefore easier to master than the 1000cc versions. Many people have said that they feel a 750 would be fine.

I guess that your idea of slow, is a fair bit different to mine. My idea of slow is something that accelerates like, say, a Geo Metro, not something that accelerates faster than a Dodge Viper.

Lets face it, the modern 600 is faster than a 750 of six or seven years ago, in a straight line, up to about 130mph.......

Six years ago the 750 class was in the middle of open warefare season, the (then new) SRAD 750 was the king of the beasts, trouncing the CBR900RR, and the FZR1000 or Chunderace) and destroying everything else in its path. Not just in a straight line either, but the 96 SRAD was a marvellous corner carver.

In its day, it was brutal - it still is, wild head shakes, inadvertant wheelies, and an utterly brutal rush beyond 10K RPM.

The latest 600's whilst just as fast, are only slightly more civilised, the power is not as brutal, but there is still a huge rush, and on the dyno they are only a couple of HP short of the benchmark.

So the power of the latest 600's is amazing, there is frankly more than 99% of people can use, and more than anyone can need on the street - on the track its a different matter, but we are talking street bikes here.....

Its not just the power either, its the power delivery.

These bikes are race-bikes with lights, or at least they are very, very similar to race bikes. In order to be competative in racing, where modifications are minimal, the engines are tuned to be very "racer friendly". The throttle response beyond a few thousand revs is instant, this is great if you are on a track, but merely OK on the road. If you are heavy-handed, it can be very dangerous. The MSF course teaches you to roll on the throttle in a curve, to a newr rider, rolling on is just that, add 1/4 turn maybe ? Well with a modern sports bike 1/4 turn is FULL throttle. Rolling on on these bikes means may 1/32nd of a turn - if that.

This is not a nice trait - you have just gone from 20hp to 80hp in the blink of an eye, and you lowsided - if you are lucky- into the scenery.

So, handling is the next problem.

These bikes are race bikes with lights, this means that they are super-fast handling. In fact they are astonishingly nervous, in order to make they turn fast, they are set-up to respond to minute inputs, and this is another major issue for a new rider. A new rider will not have the subltly of input that the bike needs, rather than push the bars, you apply a slight pressure, and the bike sails into the bends, push on the bars hard, and it becomes all nervous and unsettled, and again, the new rider may be lucky to get through the bend.

Obviously this will not be a good thing - to an experienced rider these bikes feel planted, and predictable, for a new rider, they feel horrible, and your confidence takes a hit.

Ok - Brakes

Again, these bikes are similar to race bikes. One of the few places that they differ is in the braking department. The brake pads have to last a little longer than race compound ones, so they are a little less brutal than those on a racer, also they have rubber hoses, which have a little "give" in them, making it harder to lock the fronts.

But, they are still eye-poppingly good, its possible to stand any of these bikes on its nose, at really, really high speeds, assumning you are hard enough on the brakes.

Then there is the rear brake, and again this is overly efficient, all too easy to lock it, all to easy to high-side as a result of the locked brake.

Repair costs.

As they are race replica's they comer covered in expensive plastic. Each side is $600 or more. A slow-speed drop could easily cost you over $1000 just in plastic bits. Add to that the normal "consumables" and you are in the $1300 range for a 10mph spill.

Combine all of these factors, and I hope that you see why a sportsbike is not a good first bike.

It has exactly the wrong set of characteristics for a new rider to learn to ride. Its too fast, too responsive, too twitchy, too nervous, the brakes are too sharp and they cost a lot to fix.

I'm not going to tell you that you should not get one (I'm not your mother), just that you need to bear in mind that these bikes belong in the "expert class", not the "new rider" one.
 
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#27 ·
I just bought my 2k3 GSX-R 600 as my first bike and wouldn't think twice about getting any other bike. I've got 600 miles on it now and spent a good time riding it in the rain. No problems here with it being "too much bike"
 
#28 ·
Damn.....you guys are now making me nervous. Hehehe. I mean, I have had yearrrrs on bikes (admittedly, all MX bikes until 2002 - and yes, I know it's COMPLETELY different), but when I got my Katana 750, I was a bit nervous, being my first bike and all. I did a ton of practicing in a HUGE, EMPTY parking lot. Then, I took it on the road and was very mild with it. I grew into the bike and like it very much. So, now that I was looking to replace my Katana, I decided to go with a GSX-R. I found an 89 GSX-R750 at a really good deal through someone.

Well, I decided to go with it. I really haven't ridden it yet, but now I'm getting more nervous than I did the first day on my Katana!
hehehehe...I know the power output is better on the GSX-R than the Katana, but shouldn't there be some smiliarities? Now, I'm almost afraid that I may have "looked too big" than what I should have. However, I have never put my Katana down (well, I take that back, I did try to put the bike on it's stand without having the stand down! hehehehe, that was embarrassing when I had to slowly lower it to the ground cuz I couldn't hold it up!), so I feel I'm pretty responsible and don't really "hot rod" it around busy traffic streets...

I'm heeding everything you guys are writing and take great respect in that...but now it's making me triple think...but then again, everything might be okay...I guess I'll have to see!
 
#29 ·
Innovazn said:

I just bought my 2k3 GSX-R 600 as my first bike and wouldn't think twice about getting any other bike. I've got 600 miles on it now and spent a good time riding it in the rain. No problems here with it being "too much bike"
Well, gee wizz, you survived 600 miles, and you got wet too.

Well I'm sorry but 600 miles is just a "Fun Sunday" to many riders here.....

When you have 60,000 miles on it, incident free, when you ride around the inside of 750's on track days, and when you understand that its not all about the power we will listen.....

Sqids that figure they aren't after 600 miles
 
#30 ·
fRaGgLe said:

Innovazn said:

I just bought my 2k3 GSX-R 600 as my first bike and wouldn't think twice about getting any other bike. I've got 600 miles on it now and spent a good time riding it in the rain. No problems here with it being "too much bike"
Well, gee wizz, you survived 600 miles, and you got wet too.

Well I'm sorry but 600 miles is just a "Fun Sunday" to many riders here.....

When you have 60,000 miles on it, incident free, when you ride around the inside of 750's on track days, and when you understand that its not all about the power we will listen.....

Sqids that figure they aren't after 600 miles
Fraggle has it right here. I'm starting on a small interceptor or an rz350. I'll learn on that MUCH faster then I would on something like a track bike with lights which is essentially what a 600 gix is. Also save myself some money on insurance. Riding a 600 can wait, right now I'm concerned with the basics and not paying big time for any mistakes.
 
#32 ·
LuDeS said:

Correct me if im wrong but i thought "if you had to" locking the rear brake was ok as long as you were traveling in a straight line, at least thats what they told us and made us do in the MSF course...
Yeah, unfortunately that is what we teach, because we have to; the parameters of the course do not allow for in-depth explication. Wearing a flat spot in your expensive tire is far better than high-siding (trust me, I know). We can teach a basic use of the TRAINING BIKE'S capabilities. What we CAN'T teach (no time) is how to correctly and wisely use the brakes on the bike you ride after the course (unless you took it on a military post, wherein you used your bike). The "if you had to" implies that it would be much better not to put yourself in the position to lock 'em up in the first place. I like the comments about the UK course - I wish we had a course that could provide some of the same throttle time and practice (and solid grounding in safe riding technique). Motorcycling as a sport would benefit greatly from it.
 
#34 ·
GIXXERUK said:

Innovazn said:

I just bought my 2k3 GSX-R 600 as my first bike and wouldn't think twice about getting any other bike. I've got 600 miles on it now and spent a good time riding it in the rain. No problems here with it being "too much bike"
bwwwwaaaaahhhhaaaaaaaaa


600 miles
thats a days riding ........
are you kidding me....he just got past the break in period...now he can take the revs up...providing he hasn't already and tore up the motor!!!
 
#35 ·
600 miles????????????
GEEZUS CHRIST!....that's a couple of good days riding for me or just going to and from work for 6 damn days! and what?............because maybe noone's tried to cut you off yet, or you haven't had some sort of incident yet, you think that qualifies you as having experience?
sorry, but fraggle's right, try 60000mi, and then we can talk.

this reminds me of a convo i had w the wife the other day, a couple o yrs ago she was driving us to vegas in a beemer. now she never drove a beemer before, but we got cut off and she swerved...now to control the car she turned the wheel the other way. next thing you know she's turning the wheel L then R, then L......basically any moment we would have crashed just because she didn't know how to handle the situation. after the initial swerve, i kind of freaked and just put one hand on the wheel and said "stop, just hold the damn wheel" and then everything stopped.
the point being, knowing how to handle the situation comes with experience! not just saying "ooh, the guy cut me off"

my rant for the day
 
#37 ·
600 miles and he is already cocky? Not too much power for him after 600 miles?
If Vegas had odds on him getting unscathed out of this whole thing, hoooooooo daawwg... they would not be so good. Stupidity ain't just "should be" painful, it's GONNA be.


Krazy Kager is out there! He's waiting. For you!
 
#38 ·
damn that was very deep, kinda made me think hard about the choice i just made. u see i just bought my first gsx-r600, its a 2003 and i mean i went in thinkin well since its one of the smaller bikes(in terms of cc's)n ill be ok, i mean i havent takin my class yet, but im thinkin now after reading all of this that i am gonna just be takin it slow a,d being smart and as safe as possible. i mean just reading this alone gave me a real quick ego check. and im glad that i found this site before it was too late and soemthing bad happened. i also figured since i was a good size weight that i wuold be able to handle it. i am 5'11 220, but now i dont know. im just gonna take it one step at a time and take it slow.
 
#39 ·
I am also a new rider... with a gsxr600...2003, im in the same boat as gixxerboy... we are actually good friends, and got the bikes at the same time... i am 5'1 and not skinny... but i can barely reach the ground on the bike.. i wish there was some way that i could go back in time and sign the papers for a 500 or soemthing, but i cant do that now... what (other than the classes, and being VERY cautious and careful) would you guys reccomend me doing?
 
#40 ·
gsxr600grl said:

I am also a new rider... with a gsxr600...2003, im in the same boat as gixxerboy... we are actually good friends, and got the bikes at the same time... i am 5'1 and not skinny... but i can barely reach the ground on the bike.. i wish there was some way that i could go back in time and sign the papers for a 500 or soemthing, but i cant do that now... what (other than the classes, and being VERY cautious and careful) would you guys reccomend me doing?
You can shave down the seat height among other things so your feet reach better. Post in mods and how to's for instructions.

Definitely take the MSF course and just take it easy. It's really common to get a false sense of security because you become comfortable with the bike. Keep reminding yourself that you are still knew and just don't become a hot shot. Always wear your gear and don't try any stunts for a while.
 
#42 ·
gsxr600grl said:

I am also a new rider... with a gsxr600...2003, im in the same boat as gixxerboy... we are actually good friends, and got the bikes at the same time... i am 5'1 and not skinny... but i can barely reach the ground on the bike.. i wish there was some way that i could go back in time and sign the papers for a 500 or soemthing, but i cant do that now... what (other than the classes, and being VERY cautious and careful) would you guys reccomend me doing?
holy shit are u kidding me. if ur feet can barely hit the ground i dont think u should be on that bike. whe i first got my 99' 600 i was considering lowering my bike cause it didnt feel like i had complete control and comfort when backing up and maneuvering around with my feet-and im 5'10". but now its simple and i think the fit is perfect. it just takes time to get use to it but i got u on like 9 inches. o well.

but do u even know how to ride a bike? or is ur 600 justsittin in the garage waitin 4 u to take ur classes etc.? if u know how to tide it the just take it slow. very very slow.
 
#43 ·
Very well written... I'll offer my two cent's worth with an example, followed by some comments...

After riding with me for a few months, my girlfriend decided she wanted to ride. I did all the research, and decided that the Ninja 250 was the bike to get. Last March, I came across a low mileage bike with no damage, and I bought it... It looked like a real sportbike, and after she bought all the matching gear, we always got comments - me on my blue/white G1K, and her on her bright yellow Ninja...

Needless to say, after about 1300 miles, she got complacent, and decided she didn't really need to use that back brake - the front seemed to stop the bike just fine... She changed her mind just a few feet from where the pavement ended and the gravel driveway started...

A 5 mph crash resulted in a cracked fairing, a scraped muffler, broken signal, scraped mirror, etc. Cost to fix? From Kawasaki, the replacement fairing would have been (I didn't fix it - I took the loss and sold it with the damage) $546, each muffler is $276, the replacement signal was $42... By the time you add up the costs to replace the pretty shiny stuff, you'll top $1000 on a $3000 bike - for a very minor accident where no mechanical damage occurred...

When it came time to move to something bigger, I wanted her to get an SV650... She was scared it was too big, and I ended up finding a nice, used, (yellow - to match all of her riding gear), 1999 GS500E. I bought it, and at this point I am convinced that this is the bike we should have started with... It has more power, is more comfortable at highway speeds, and you can get one cheap these days (paid $600 less for it than I did the Ninja)... The "pavement to gravel" crash would have cost me about tenth of what the Ninja did... I sold the Ninja for about $700 less than a perfect one would have brought with similar mileage...

My girlfriend was OK after the crash, and she learned a very important lesson without getting hurt very badly... She learned that riding a motorcycle successfully demands a whole different level of attention than driving around in a car...

Unfortunately, a lot of people that start out on bigger, faster bikes don't get that opportunity... If you buy a hot bike as a first bike, and then proceed to ride aggressively, chances of entering a turn too fast, or getting into a situation where road conditions change faster than you can react approprately, increase substantially...

These bikes accelerate so hard, and the speed becomes so intoxicating, I feel that eveytime I get out and ride, I have to focus more intently on not getting myself in trouble that I can't get out of... If you have been riding at 120, it's easy to become mesmerized by the speed, and entering a 35 mph turn at 80 (because slowing from 120 to 80 makes it feel like you are poking along), is probably going to end up bending something...

New riders simply don't have the experiences to fall back on as to what it is like to enter a corner too fast, to hit a patch of gravel in a turn, or to have the back tire break loose while accelerating out of a turn... I've taken the bumps and bruises, the stiches, and scraped skin, and I did all of that on much slower, much less capable, and much less expensive motorcycles over about 20 years of riding...

I guess it all depends on the individual and what they are trying to accomplish in buying and riding a motorcycle... Aspiring racers, stunt riders, street racers, etc. (like me when I was younger) are going to have a different set of decisions to make than the average new rider who wants to start out, learn how to ride, and avoid an accident at all costs (my girlfriend).

If you are willing to take the bumps, bruises, scrapes, broken bones, etc., and can cover the cost to fix the sportbike to the degree you want to maintain it (do you want it to always look fresh off the showroom, or do you mind riding with cosmetic damage?), go for the sportbike. If you want to learn to ride for the enjoyment and take the cautious approach to avoid injury to yourself and other property, take it slow, buy a nice, used bike, learn to ride, and when you outgrow it, trade up to something bigger and better....

For the ladies, you probably fall into the last category... Take it slow, be careful not to be pressured into trying to learn on something more than you are comfortable with just to make someone else happy... And, before you start, get the appropriate, high-quality riding gear... The scrapes hurt more than the broken bones a lot of the time...

For the guys, if your lady thinks that a 600 is too much, get her on a smaller bike - she can always move up to something bigger... If she scares herself on something that is too aggressive, her riding days are probably over... It almost happened to me with the Ninja and my girlfiend while she was trying to learn the concept of countersteering. If she'd been on a bigger bike going 10 mph faster, I am pretty sure the outcome would have been ugly (she would have hit the guardrail in a turn at highway speed...).

Sorry for the long post, but with the state of performance of bikes on the showrooms today, I feel like folks have got to start thinking more about these decisions...
 
#44 ·
i totally agree with you about the fact that i should have gotten a smaller bike, but the fact is that i was stupid and got the 600... so now i have to deal.... i mean, if i could i would just take it back, save my money and get a 250 to learn on, but im stuck for 5 years.... so in the end, all it comes down to is the fact that i AM going to be EXTREMELY careful and very attentive at that class.... i wish i would have gone into these rooms before i got the bike, but thank you very much for all the suggestions... i really do appreciate it...
 
#46 ·
My first bike is the 01 GSXR-600 im still ridin around today, its a great bike, still has plenty of power for me (for now anyway) and im lovin every day it doesnt rain and i can take it out to play, if your gettin a new bike go ahead and get a 600, if your an idiot youll crash and burn, if your not then youll be just fine
 
#47 ·
well i must say that you guys are makin me feel a little better about my choice... but i still know that it will take some time for me to learn on it...i just think that the people that go out and get them and dont do anything to inform themselves about the thing that they are about to jump on are pretty stupid... i dont mean to offend anyone, but with all the power that i KNOW those bikes have, i dont understand how someone could just jump on one and think that they are going to be ok... i dont know, im rambling... im just really looking forward to actually riding it, i start my classes in 9 days, and im hoping after that, i will be able to understand the bike a little better.. hopefully see some of you out at bike night.
 
#48 ·
Hello, I am new to this board so I thought that I would stop in and see what was going on, and I ran across this post. Let me start by saying that I have read some really great stuff in this post, and whole-heartedly agree that a 600 class sport bike is too much for a new rider. I can also admit that I was too inexperienced when I purchased my '00 600, and I have the scars to prove it.
I entered a TIGHT left-hander about 50 MPH too fast for the corner, I paniced, locked up the back break (didn't highside somehow) and shot off into the scenery, or at least the bike did. Something in the berm that I hit while exiting the pavement sent me back onto the paement to take the roadrash down my left side, with my shoulder taking the blunt of the impact. Thankfully I wasn't injured too bad, nothing broken, not bad for not wearing a helmet or any kind of riding gear and all of the damage to the bike was cosmetic save for a bent rear wheel.
I have since invested in a nice Shoei helmet and a Teknic Leather jacket that I never leave home without I still have the same bike after a bit of repairs and healing time. It has been two years since I wrecked, and it is something that is in the back of my mind every time I throw a leg over my gix6.
My first bike was a DR650 enduro, which looking back I can say I think was a wise choice and was an excellent bike to learn on. I took the time to learn the basics on a sensible bike before I screwed up and upgraded to too much of a bike! However after my crash I learned that riding a bike and riding it well or being a "good rider" is about one thing ,EXPERIENCE.
To all new rider: A faster bike will not make someone a better rider, that comes with time and miles in the saddle. Have respect and listen to people that have more experience than you do. I am very much a rookie with only 3 years and 8K miles or so, and obviously not a shining three years! With that said I also know that I get better with everyday that I ride because I listen to the riding tips that I am given by others. This makes me more confident in myself and my abilites and therefore more comfortable on my bike. One thing that I always remember someone telling me is not to be afraid of the bike, but respect it. The moment you don't respect your bike is the moment it will show you how much respect it deserves.

Sorry had to make my first post a long one!
 
#49 ·
Well haveing been away from Bikes for 15 years, I decided to pass the OWLD test and purchase a second hand bike, after many weeks of looking and reading, GSXR 750 was to be the beast, I class myself to be a competative rider....^^, well in two years, I've had two, fell off once, and loved every minute of it....These bikes rock, the adrenaline that flows from 7k is so adictive, pardon the spelling, I managed one track day last year @ croft, and not many people passed me, the only prob's is, I get extreme lean.......but, I ain't got me knee down yet, I use the full extent of the tyres on the rear, and have 1 cm spare on the front, whats going wrong.........I am please I found this site though, what a blast... reagards to everybody and LONG LIVE BIKES.....
 
#51 ·
If you are not dragging your knee yet it is probably becuase of your riding style.
If you sit with your butt square on the bike you never will, unless you are about 6'8". Once you begin to hang off of the bike in the turns you will eventuall be able to drag your knee.
 
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