Stator and Rectifier help - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com

 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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Stator and Rectifier help

So my bike has always started and run fine. I was out riding and stopped to get gas. Went to restart and it was dead. Push started and got home. Tried to start again and it was dead. Put it on the battery tender and it was reading at 0%, but took a full charge overnight and is now starting normally.

I read a bunch of threads on here and got to work with my multimeter for the first time.

In DC voltage the battery reads 12.72 consistently while battery tender reads 95%. Reads 13.5 when it reads 99%. These readings are after disconnecting battery tender.

Battery current leakage: (by placing the multimeter between the neg battery post and the cable) shows 1.3ma

Regulated voltage: with a cool motor, sometimes I'm getting as much as 13.9 volts at the battery holding 5k rpm in neutral but it has to work it's way up there over 30 seconds or so. A lot of the time it shows 12.5-12.7

Generator coil resistance: resistance between the leads coming off the stator show 0.7 with all three test combos a/b, a/c and b/c.

Generator no load performance: current at the same three stator leads show 75-76 AC volts at 5k rpm in all three test combos a/b, a/c and b/c.

I think these are all saying rectifier is bad and the stator is good. Am I on the right track? Rectifier is in the stick position btw. I keep forgetting to order the relocation kit.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 07:36 PM
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Re: Stator and Rectifier help

Good work, almost there.

You haven't mentioned it, but the battery has to be fully charged and let rest for a couple hours before testing the voltage across the terminals at 5k rpm. You mentioned voltages when the battery is disconnected from the tender, but time is not mentioned. 13.9V is low for a 5k reading, but that last test to be sure is in the pic I am attaching.

The reason you need to do the last test is because you are now testing the rectifier as an isolated component. When the R/R is connected normally, the battery (and many other connections) now play a part in the circuit. If the R/R is normal, that 13.9 could still be the result of something else shitty- like corroded connections, for one.

If the R/R tests out of spec with the chart, it is already, of course, past it's best-before date. If she's buggered, replace it, but you also now have to re-test the battery, too. Let it sit overnight and test the voltage. A knackered R/R can knacker the battery. The generator is verified as already within-spec.

This, of course, is assuming that when you tried to start the bike, it at least primed the fuel pum and clicked the starter solenoid when you pushed the button...
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File Type: jpg RR chart.jpg (232.7 KB, 15 views)

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 07:40 PM
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Re: Stator and Rectifier help

BTW, I just saw the "0%" in your post. Care to tell me what brand charger you're using, and what type of battery? To add some more mud to the electrical magic, "0%" doesn't mean "0%," and I would like to see what that charger is actually saying...
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBayne View Post
Good work, almost there.

You haven't mentioned it, but the battery has to be fully charged and let rest for a couple hours before testing the voltage across the terminals at 5k rpm. You mentioned voltages when the battery is disconnected from the tender, but time is not mentioned. 13.9V is low for a 5k reading, but that last test to be sure is in the pic I am attaching.

The reason you need to do the last test is because you are now testing the rectifier as an isolated component. When the R/R is connected normally, the battery (and many other connections) now play a part in the circuit. If the R/R is normal, that 13.9 could still be the result of something else shitty- like corroded connections, for one.

If the R/R tests out of spec with the chart, it is already, of course, past it's best-before date. If she's buggered, replace it, but you also now have to re-test the battery, too. Let it sit overnight and test the voltage. A knackered R/R can knacker the battery. The generator is verified as already within-spec.

This, of course, is assuming that when you tried to start the bike, it at least primed the fuel pum and clicked the starter solenoid when you pushed the button...

Thanks for the reply. I did not let the battery sit for a couple hours after removing the battery render. It was only 10-15 mins or so. I will check it again when I get home from work tomorrow. I will also try the last test for isolating the rectifier when I get in from work and report back with my findings.

Attachment wouldn't work so the batter tender I'm using is called Battery Extender, battery charger/maintainer, model sp3

Last edited by lopitt85; 06-17-2018 at 10:35 PM.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Also with the rectifier tests is the bike running, key on or off. And is the multimeter set for AC or DC?
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 12:32 AM
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Re: Stator and Rectifier help

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Originally Posted by lopitt85 View Post
Thanks for the reply. I did not let the battery sit for a couple hours after removing the battery render. It was only 10-15 mins or so. I will check it again when I get home from work tomorrow. I will also try the last test for isolating the rectifier when I get in from work and report back with my findings.

Attachment wouldn't work so the batter tender I'm using is called Battery Extender, battery charger/maintainer, model sp3
I'll look that up tomorrow, if i remember. I've been outside all day and have enjoyed a number of lager, since.

Okay, so not in direct reply to you, but in general information to those that search, when you test the R/R, your multimeter should be set to DC because it "rectifies" the electrical current.

The stator is stationary windings- hence the name "stator." The magnets around the stator rotate with the crank. Together, they are the generator, because they generate AC electrical current. In your house, you can rely on 60 Hz, 120V or 240V (50 Hz in Europe). On the bike, the frequency can change from I-don't-know-what, to what-the-fuck-ever because there are (I can't remember how many) magnets on the generator (22?) and 18 (that's easy to remember) poles (those things wrapped in wire) on the stator. Your bike revs from 1500 to 15k rpm. Unreliable frequency, to say the least.

The rectifier takes the AC of ridiculous and various frequency and makes it DC. In AC, you fluctuate from positive to negative voltage and current. The rectifier rectifies, (makes AC into DC) the voltage and current (from + and - to simply positive constantly) by the magic of diodes. AC to DC is "rectified," and DC to AC is "inverted." (inverted from positive to negative).

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 06:33 AM
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Re: Stator and Rectifier help

Although the theory in the above is sound, when testing the rectifier, you should be in "diode mode". Where that is depends on the DMM, so ti might be bundled in with DC voltage measurement in some, but you're not measuring operational voltages. Instead the rectifier needs to be disconnected (i.e. "on the bench") and what the test does, is measure the voltage drops across the rectification diodes inside the rectifier. Each type of diode has a characteristic voltage drop (well, actually a characteristic voltage-current curve, but in our case this is not important), when its conducting, it drops some voltage, which I think is about 0.7V for these rectification diodes.

When not conducting, there's no current and no voltage drop of course, which might be indicated differently from one DMM to another. The manual mentions that it'll read 1.4V, which is presumably what the DMM they have at Suzuki shops does, but in my case it just showed "OL" or something like that, so keep that in mind when testing endpoints indicated with stars in the table. Also pay attention to where you put each probe, and that you've connected them to your DMM correctly, as polarity matters with diodes.

Finally, kudos for researching the matter and getting busy with a DMM and for describing the issue accurately and concisely.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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After sitting all day unhooked from the charger battery reads at 12.5 volts DC.

Regulated voltage showed 13.5 DC today at 5k rpm.

So I placed my multimeter on diode mode and it shows 3 digit places, I just believe mine simply doesn't show the decimal. For example as it's getting the reading it may show something like 451 which from what I can tell means 0.451, as it settles on a reading

Here are my numbers listed by row, from left to right in relation to the chart in the picture posted by MacBayne.

Top row: 000 410 464 463 946 948
2nd row: 415 469 467 956 958
3rd row: 460 460
4th row: 449 449
5th row: 457 457
6th row: 000
7th row: 000

I believe this means its testing in spec?

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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I also just thought about something that I should not have forgot. This is a salvage bike that I'm turning into a track bike. When I got it the stator side of the plug connecting the stator to the rectifier was damaged from over heating. So I clipped those wires and added new female connectors to all 3 wires, and then plugged them into the male connectors from the rectifier. It was supposed to be a temp fix to test the bike until I could solder the rectifier/stator wires together. I never went back to it because it was running fine. You think there could be too much resistance at those crimped on female connectors, and maybe that causing voltage not to flow to the rectifier properly?

Maybe I should cut open the heat shrink and look for burned up wires/connectors causing too much resistance.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-19-2018, 04:16 AM
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Re: Stator and Rectifier help

You R/R readings looks normal (assuming I'm reading them correctly). Do you see any signs of overheating, such as cracking or bulging, on the underside of the unit? In any case, the wiring between the stator, rectifier and battery, was what I was going to suggest looking at next. Since it has been modified, that makes it even more likely that it's the source of your problems. What's the condition of the plug and pins?
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-19-2018, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpapavas View Post
You R/R readings look normal (assuming I'm reading them correctly). Do you see any signs of overheating, such as cracking or bulging, on the underside of the unit? In any case, the wiring between the stator, rectifier and battery, was what I was going to suggest looking at next. Since it has been modified, that makes it even more likely that it's the source of your problems. What's the condition of the plug and pins?

I going to make my own relocation bracket for the rectifier and will inspect the backside when I do. I'm also going to pick up some solder on the way home today to fix those crimped connections by just hardwiring the stator to the rectifier.

The plastic plug on the stator side is gone. It's the three individual wires with it's own connector crimped on and insulated. The plastic plug from the rectifier is intact and the thre individual wires from the stator are plugged into it.

It seems a common fix for this problem area is to solder the wires together and eliminate the connectors. I'm going to do this after inspecting everything and then retest the charging system.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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So those crimped on items were corroded. They also got nice and hot while the bike was running. So I think it was just a downward spiral of heat causing resistance which reduced voltage. Rectifier said send more voltage, which caused more heat and more resistance. Rinse and repeat.

So I got everything soldered and heatshrinked. I also have all of the wires covered with heat reflecting tubing. I inspected the back of the rectifier and all was good there. I also made my own bracket and relocated my rectifier. Made sure battery was charged and will test it all out tomorrow.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Here are some pics of the relocation.

Sorry not sure what the problem is with pictures not attaching

Last edited by lopitt85; 07-07-2018 at 08:26 PM.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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more pics

Last edited by lopitt85; 07-07-2018 at 08:26 PM.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 06-26-2018, 07:22 PM
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Re: Stator and Rectifier help

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Originally Posted by dpapavas View Post
Although the theory in the above is sound, when testing the rectifier, you should be in "diode mode".
Looks like I was a couple lager too deep to be accurate. ... the manual even says diode test... smh
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