L7 R, Max electrical system voltage? - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com

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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

morning boys n girls

going to replace the battery in my L7R, see if i can clear off these intermittent voltage drop issues that seem to effect the electronics on the bike.
obviously the stock system is 12V
looking at upgrading to lithium battery, but i know that lithiums are above 13v on a full charge.
anyone run into issues with these things effecting the electronics or frying the wiring systems?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 08:08 PM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

not at all, mine has worked flawlessly for over a year

jason
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 08:25 PM
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I like lithium batts in my tools, I’m not sure I could trust one for a car or a motorcycle they are not meant to be constantly charged the way a alternator or stator works I’ve heard a few stories the lithium jump boxes blowing up I know a guy that had half his pick up bed burnt up from one blowing up.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

@PaulPhilly lithium batteries dont bother me from that perspective, im used to them and have used them in bikes, cars, rc planes, drones etc before, the charging more revolves around overcharge and cell balancing, which lithium batteries are very susceptible to.
btw, ive seen a 72v 22ah lithium polymer battery explode mid air before, the flaming ball was impressive to watch crash into the earth.
you are correct about the state of charge, but most of the high end batteries have a voltage cut off, and wont charge back up until they reduce in voltage to a set level.

Jason, what battery are you using? i was looking at either anti gravity or earth x atm, i would like something with some circuitry protection and balancing capabilities built in.

my main concern is more around how sensitive the electronics are and if the stator is overcharging the battery

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 04:41 AM
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No problem with my bike. I have a ballistic battery. FYI- They went out if business, I would recommend something else, not that I have had any issues other than sloppy looking assembly.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 07:03 AM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

i had the ballistic but now i have a Fire Power (it has safetys in it to prevent damage and balances its own cells)

jason
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 11:19 AM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

Regardless of nominal battery voltage, the system voltage range is specified in the manual as something like 14.5-15.5V, at least for the older models, although I expect it to be the same for the L7. So unless the battery voltage is higher (in which case it wouldn't be charged) the electrics shouldn't see a higher than expected (with the OEM battery) voltage.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karns Performance View Post
i had the ballistic but now i have a Fire Power (it has safetys in it to prevent damage and balances its own cells)

jason
Prevent damage to what? The battery damages itself or something on the bike?
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 05:55 PM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

First thing's first. A 12V battery, isn't. Hundreds of years ago, the lead acid cell was created and came out to 2.1V, WITHOUT BEING CHARGED. That means, when all parts are put together, without adding more energy, the voltage was/is 2.1V. They called it a 2V cell because the name was shorter. Your motorcycle battery has six cells connected in battery, meaning in a group. Six cells in series makes 12.6V. That is the MINIMUM most "12V" lead acid batteries should read at rest. If you charge a lead acid battery, most resting voltages are OVER 13V because they have more "juice."

Lithium Ion is a newer type construction, and the cells are much smaller within. That means that they have a more narrow operating range, but hold more energy and weigh less. A Li battery has internal circuitry and protection to keep it from exploding and catching fire and are VASTLY safer and more reliable than 10 years ago. Said circuitry also stops overcharging. That being said, build, design, and quality depends on manufacturer and varies quite a lot compared to the lead acid. That design is old and simple. Depending on said manufacturer, "dead" voltage is pretty much anything less than 13.2V in Li batteries.

"12V" electrical systems are regulated to around 14.4V when the generator/alternator makes enough power to run the system. Max voltage is around 15.5 and if your bike or car holds that as a normal voltage, shit's fucked, yo.

If you want to save weight, get the lithium. If you wanna be economical, get lead.

KTM/Husky, Ducati, BMW, MV Agusta, and many other "higher end" bikes come with Li batteries as OEM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karns Performance View Post
i had the ballistic but now i have a Fire Power (it has safetys in it to prevent damage and balances its own cells)

jason
cheers mate, that's exactly what im looking for, something with an inbuilt cell balancer and anti-short circuitry

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Originally Posted by 2017Dave View Post
Prevent damage to what? The battery damages itself or something on the bike?
the battery, lithium batteries are extremely unstable when cells become unbalanced and can explode or catch fire, usually the cells will swell first unless its a dead short, in which case if you don't break the circuit manually it'll explode, hence the built in cell balancer and anti-short protection.

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Originally Posted by MacBayne View Post
First thing's first. A 12V battery, isn't. Hundreds of years ago, the lead acid cell was created and came out to 2.1V, WITHOUT BEING CHARGED. That means, when all parts are put together, without adding more energy, the voltage was/is 2.1V. They called it a 2V cell because the name was shorter. Your motorcycle battery has six cells connected in battery, meaning in a group. Six cells in series makes 12.6V. That is the MINIMUM most "12V" lead acid batteries should read at rest. If you charge a lead acid battery, most resting voltages are OVER 13V because they have more "juice."

Lithium Ion is a newer type construction, and the cells are much smaller within. That means that they have a more narrow operating range, but hold more energy and weigh less. A Li battery has internal circuitry and protection to keep it from exploding and catching fire and are VASTLY safer and more reliable than 10 years ago. Said circuitry also stops overcharging. That being said, build, design, and quality depends on manufacturer and varies quite a lot compared to the lead acid. That design is old and simple. Depending on said manufacturer, "dead" voltage is pretty much anything less than 13.2V in Li batteries.

"12V" electrical systems are regulated to around 14.4V when the generator/alternator makes enough power to run the system. Max voltage is around 15.5 and if your bike or car holds that as a normal voltage, shit's fucked, yo.

If you want to save weight, get the lithium. If you wanna be economical, get lead.

KTM/Husky, Ducati, BMW, MV Agusta, and many other "higher end" bikes come with Li batteries as OEM.
you are 100% correct, nominal voltage vs peak voltage is significantly different, though most lead acid standard cells are 2.15v and resting voltage should be 12.9 on those cells on full charge, anything below 12.5v resting you're in need of a top up (which can be acheived on a long drive/ride), high end lead acid cells will charge up to 2.35v per cell and they should be 14.1v fully charged.

and yeah, your regulator has shit the bed if your systems holding above 14.6v and its a 12v system.

my only concern is i cant work out what type of Lithium cells are in each pack as they don't list the details or max voltage.
some do. for example earth x lists 13.2v, chances are they're utilising a different annode, probably uses graphene and silicon compound (like a HV LiPo cell does). i dont think there's a lithium battery that has a nominal voltage of 13.2v its inbetween cells, most likely that would be max charge voltage.


the main question whether either the battery will spaz out the electronics because its over volted when switched on, or the stator overcharges the lithium battery and causes issues there.
the electronics seem to be a little temperamental in this bike, would rather not be replacing a wiring harness for no reason.
all seems like its fine with everyone else running one, so im going to look for a decent brand i can get ahold of in AUS.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 06:17 PM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

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Originally Posted by XCSEDAN View Post
you are 100% correct, nominal voltage vs peak voltage is significantly different, though most lead acid standard cells are 2.15v and resting voltage should be 12.9 on those cells on full charge, anything below 12.5v resting you're in need of a top up (which can be acheived on a long drive/ride), high end lead acid cells will charge up to 2.35v per cell and they should be 14.1v fully charged.
Exactly. 2.1V is simply after assembly and has no energy "added." I really do find it funny, though, that after 200 years, the best we improved the lead acid battery was by 0.1V potential per cell.

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my only concern is i cant work out what type of Lithium cells are in each pack as they don't list the details or max voltage.
some do. for example earth x lists 13.2v, chances are they're utilising a different annode, probably uses graphene and silicon compound (like a HV LiPo cell does). i dont think there's a lithium battery that has a nominal voltage of 13.2v its inbetween cells, most likely that would be max charge voltage.
I have a Shorai Li battery in my race bike. Its resting voltage is 13.35, but according to literature, anything lower than 13.0 requires the specialized wizardry equipment to recover it. I'm not sure on construction, but I'm pretty sure it's not just a bank of 18650 cells like the OEM one (from a casual outside observation and no tear-down) in my Husky. I like the Shorai. It's light as a feather, but doesn't see much use. Since I'm in Edmonton, my track season is pretty much just 5 months and I keep in well tended. The Shorai site has every listed application and rating for their batteries.


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the main question whether either the battery will spaz out the electronics because its over volted when switched on, or the stator overcharges the lithium battery and causes issues there.
the electronics seem to be a little temperamental in this bike, would rather not be replacing a wiring harness for no reason.
all seems like its fine with everyone else running one, so im going to look for a decent brand i can get ahold of in AUS.
Yeah, if your electrical system is wonky, I actually think that a Li battery is better than lead. Sure, the Li has a more sensational catastrophic failure than a lead, but I think the protection within is an advantage over just boiling acid over. That being said, if your electrical system is cantankerous, I think a six pack and and afternoon should be spent fixing the issue over fussing over what battery to use.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

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Exactly. 2.1V is simply after assembly and has no energy "added." I really do find it funny, though, that after 200 years, the best we improved the lead acid battery was by 0.1V potential per cell.
well.... yeah... lol

Quote:
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I have a Shorai Li battery in my race bike. Its resting voltage is 13.35, but according to literature, anything lower than 13.0 requires the specialized wizardry equipment to recover it. I'm not sure on construction, but I'm pretty sure it's not just a bank of 18650 cells like the OEM one (from a casual outside observation and no tear-down) in my Husky. I like the Shorai. It's light as a feather, but doesn't see much use. Since I'm in Edmonton, my track season is pretty much just 5 months and I keep in well tended. The Shorai site has every listed application and rating for their batteries.
yeah i've heard of these few guys run them that i used to ride with, and i've also heard the charging issue, which to be air all lithium batteries need a proper charger.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBayne View Post
Yeah, if your electrical system is wonky, I actually think that a Li battery is better than lead. Sure, the Li has a more sensational catastrophic failure than a lead, but I think the protection within is an advantage over just boiling acid over. That being said, if your electrical system is cantankerous, I think a six pack and and afternoon should be spent fixing the issue over fussing over what battery to use.
its a factory feature, i've had the bike completely torn down and gone over it from top to bottom. seems to be a bit of a common issue in these bikes, and i think its because of all the electronics, but as soon as the battery gets a tad low you start having abs, tcs & other issues.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 05:51 PM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

I'm a bit confused. I've been riding 43 years and always used standard battery with no problems. Both track and race use. But seeing a few posts lately about changing batteries.

Did I miss the memo ?
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 12:07 AM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

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I'm a bit confused. I've been riding 43 years and always used standard battery with no problems. Both track and race use. But seeing a few posts lately about changing batteries.

Did I miss the memo ?
Yes.

Lithium batteries are where tech is going now and lead batteries are 200 year-old tech, but old geezers are hesitant to accept new tech.

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 05:20 PM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

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Yes.

Lithium batteries are where tech is going now and lead batteries are 200 year-old tech, but old geezers are hesitant to accept new tech.

I hope scoffing at me makes you happy. I know things move on, but change for change sake is daft.

If something worked last year, it will work this year.

Maybe ask an adult to explain that to you.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 06:40 PM
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Re: L7 R, Max electrical system voltage?

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I hope scoffing at me makes you happy. I know things move on, but change for change sake is daft.

If something worked last year, it will work this year.

Maybe ask an adult to explain that to you.
If you're looking for adults around here, you won't find any. The last old man around here was Oldfart and he touched me on my bumbum after he lured me to his basement with lithium batteries. You cannot lure me with plain lead acid. The man knew how to lure.
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