2nd time on the track (highsided!) - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2015, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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2nd time on the track (highsided!)

Well...I got back on the track this last Saturday...back to Sandia Speedway. This time however they had a new configuration which was MUCH for fun and technical. I only got 5 total sessions in throughout the day because we caught rain first thing in the morning and didn't get to start until almost noon.

Now...once again, my lines aren't perfect, but they are getting there; I'm not asking for sponsors at this point by any means. I'm definitely faster this time around, but still a lot of work needed to put in. I ended up jumping to the intermediate class and following a guy on a 750 in this video. We had a better run session prior as we didn't get caught up behind an instructor and slower rider....I slowed down as to not try and mess them up so it set me behind a bit.

We don't start really getting up to speed until 5:16 minute mark in the video and the highside takes place at 10:47....

Yes, I went down for the first time ever that day...walked away just fine except for little soreness...I rode the bike off the track and didn't screw it up for the rest of them

I know what I did wrong and even as I was making the mistake, my mind was telling me the entire time, "Nope, nope, nope. Don't grab that front brake." Which I did, and got a lesson in physics and suspension geometry.

As was coming into the corner immediately after the second hairpin of the course, I did not like my entry position and I felt that I could correct my line mid corner. I began to go high, grabbed the front brake, she wobbled for a second and then threw me off. I KNOW what I did wrong, however I'm all ears (eyes) for the lecturing.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHyg3CD6PFw
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 01:15 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

Noooooo! Glad you didn't hurt yourself. I'll have to check the video later... You know I'll be back.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 04:25 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

Glad to hear you are ok, highsides are very difficult to walk away from unscathed.



I highsided so bad once up at Loudon that I don't even remember the 6-hour drive home. This picture was taken right after the crash...

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 07:23 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

Glad you're OK. That wasn't a high-side though.

It looks like you chickened-out and wanted to slow down. While settling into a line, you stood the bike up while braking, braked too hard, lost traction and low-sided, actually.

Common beginner mistake. Your bike cold have made it around that turn easily, even much, much quicker than that.

High sides are much more spectacular / painful. The rear breaks loose and hooks-up again, resulting in the rider being shot up into the air. You just broke your traction and the bike slid wheels-first towards the outside (low side).
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 09:11 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

it's only a high side because you fell forward over the bike... toward the turn if I assume correctly. if that was at a greater speed, fireworks may have flown.

So, you basically grabbed a handful of front brake while the wheel was cocked and it body slammed ya?

I agree that you could have taken that pony at MUCH greater speed. When in doubt, lean it out...

shit happens! Be safe mang.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 09:17 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

Yeah, that definitely wasn't a highside. Like le skid said, you lost traction and lowsided.

Here is my highside from NJMP a while back:

https://youtu.be/-f_m5Qa4AMs
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 10:27 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

You were putting in work, rain too...

He fell over the bike the same way... the speed or severity does not constitute a highside.... going over the bike vs under it constitutes the spill.

Nice suit...

Edit: I've known harley riders to die falling over highside at extremely slow speeds from being face planted without a helmet. Shit happens...

Last edited by L5750; 08-07-2015 at 10:29 AM.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 10:38 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony D View Post
Yeah, that definitely wasn't a highside. Like le skid said, you lost traction and lowsided.

Here is my highside from NJMP a while back:

https://youtu.be/-f_m5Qa4AMs
ouch

You've got bigger balls than me. The second the pavement looks at all damp, I turn into a goldwing rider.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by le skid View Post
Glad you're OK. That wasn't a high-side though.

It looks like you chickened-out and wanted to slow down. While settling into a line, you stood the bike up while braking, braked too hard, lost traction and low-sided, actually.

Common beginner mistake. Your bike cold have made it around that turn easily, even much, much quicker than that.

High sides are much more spectacular / painful. The rear breaks loose and hooks-up again, resulting in the rider being shot up into the air. You just broke your traction and the bike slid wheels-first towards the outside (low side).
Quote:
Originally Posted by L5750 View Post
it's only a high side because you fell forward over the bike... toward the turn if I assume correctly. if that was at a greater speed, fireworks may have flown.

So, you basically grabbed a handful of front brake while the wheel was cocked and it body slammed ya?

I agree that you could have taken that pony at MUCH greater speed. When in doubt, lean it out...

shit happens! Be safe mang.

Well...in my defense to hold onto my man card, I didn't really chicken-out. I thought in minds-eye that I could correct my line mid corner since on other corners I have been able to bend the braking rule at lean and redirect myself...I now know that speed plays a big role in the capability to do such moves...

As I entered the corner, I immediately didn't like my entry position. I felt that if I could slow down just a bit, I could redirect myself to hit the apex like a I wanted to...didn't happen obviously...as soon as I grabbed the brake, my front tire started to wobble from side to side a couple of times and then she hooked and threw me forward.

After watching Anthony's video I bailed EXACTLY like he did. The visor of my helmet smashed first (I actually turned my head so it hit on the side on initial impact) along with landing on my shoulder and elbow. I then spun around backwards hitting my head on the backside twice, then proceeded to slide backwards, facing the bike, sitting down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony D View Post
Yeah, that definitely wasn't a highside. Like le skid said, you lost traction and lowsided.

Here is my highside from NJMP a while back:

https://youtu.be/-f_m5Qa4AMs

Jesus! Yeah, uh...if there's any water, I'm watching from the stands....

Nice running though man and you look just like a guy I know from PA...ha ha ha...glad you made that one out as well!

I bailed just like you did...head over first, then sliding backwards.

It's times like these I thank God that I still stay in the weight room at least once a week. I'm pretty durable and my body knows how to react to a fall upon impact. I'm confident had I been a "weaker person" the outcome would have been much worse. My guess is I was somewhere between 60-70 mph when I entered that corner...just a guess as I had just gone into 3rd as I dove in...
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 11:39 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

been there....

I figured it happened exactly how you described from watching...


Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Chaos View Post
The visor of my helmet smashed first (I actually turned my head so it hit on the side on initial impact) along with landing on my shoulder and elbow. I then spun around backwards hitting my head on the backside twice, then proceeded to slide backwards, facing the bike, sitting down.




Jesus! Yeah, uh...if there's any water, I'm watching from the stands....

Nice running though man and you look just like a guy I know from PA...ha ha ha...glad you made that one out as well!

I bailed just like you did...head over first, then sliding backwards.

It's times like these I thank God that I still stay in the weight room at least once a week. I'm pretty durable and my body knows how to react to a fall upon impact. I'm confident had I been a "weaker person" the outcome would have been much worse. My guess is I was somewhere between 60-70 mph when I entered that corner...just a guess as I had just gone into 3rd as I dove in...
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 12:27 PM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

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Originally Posted by C. Chaos View Post
Well...in my defense to hold onto my man card, I didn't really chicken-out.
Sorry for the careless wording - no offense intended, of course


I wasn't in your head but what your video shows is what every rider has done at some point while honing their skills. Your eyes should be looking waaaaaay up the track, well past the apex your were approaching. If you do that, your bike just 'goes there' all by itself, if you let it. You didn't.

Search the forum for the expression: "Target fixation".

It certainly appears as though you were looking at the curve, you 'weren't comfortable' (how's that? lol) and your un-trained instincts betrayed you, making you try to lose speed (you did stand the bike up and grab a fistful of front brake).

I'd bet you $5 you were looking where you DIDN'T want to go (off the track ) and that's what target fixation is all about.

Replay it again in your mind but instead, imagine you were looking way up the track, planted in a line where your left knee would have skimmed over that apex, nice and smooth. Look where you want your bike to go, not right in front of you. Work on your lines and trusting your bike wants to follow them. Your confidence will go up and lap times go down naturally.

Until you learn this, your instincts will betray you long before you run out of rubber... Lessons are repeated until they are learned.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 12:39 PM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

preach!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by le skid View Post
I'd bet you $5 you were looking where you DIDN'T want to go (off the track ) and that's what target fixation is all about.
.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 01:06 PM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

^^ sound advice,

Ok so, I had a chance to check out the video. You are learning, that is good... the hard way not so good...

The number one mistake you seem to make over and over is you are braking and decelerating well into your corners this is NOT good and a total mind fuck for a beginner! Experienced riders/racers would never do this unless they were trying to avoid something in their direct line. If you were going much faster you would washout on entry doing this. Not to mention possibly get clipped by another rider. You are overloading the front end, making the bike do exactly what it doesn't want to do (stand up and scrub speed mid corner) and giving you nasty feedback and likely fear and/or uncertainty which often leads to target fixation which is probably what you did when you ate it. You absolutely need to work on braking before you enter your corner and throttle control through the corner. You want to match the throttle on entry and begin to gently roll on as you pass your apex using the throttle to help you navigate through the turn and set yourself up for the next.

Secondly, you are entering many corners hugging the inside when you have so much room to work with. Swing it wide and enter coming from the outside in rather than the inside out so you can carry more speed and the turn isn't nearly as sharp and abrupt. Going from the inside out nabs a lot of people on exit because they tend to run off the track. This isn't a race so there is no reason to hug the inside so much to keep the bastards behind you... you should absolutely use the whole track it will help you heaps!

Oh and one more thing... The guy in front of you is clearly inexperienced too, if you find yourself following another rider at this stage in the game you are best to remove them from your minds eye (unless they are an instructor) and focus on what you are doing ONLY (don't hit them of course). I can tell he was a huge distraction for you.


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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2015, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by le skid View Post
Sorry for the careless wording - no offense intended, of course


I wasn't in your head but what your video shows is what every rider has done at some point while honing their skills. Your eyes should be looking waaaaaay up the track, well past the apex your were approaching. If you do that, your bike just 'goes there' all by itself, if you let it. You didn't.

Search the forum for the expression: "Target fixation".

It certainly appears as though you were looking at the curve, you 'weren't comfortable' (how's that? lol) and your un-trained instincts betrayed you, making you try to lose speed (you did stand the bike up and grab a fistful of front brake).

I'd bet you $5 you were looking where you DIDN'T want to go (off the track ) and that's what target fixation is all about.

Replay it again in your mind but instead, imagine you were looking way up the track, planted in a line where your left knee would have skimmed over that apex, nice and smooth. Look where you want your bike to go, not right in front of you. Work on your lines and trusting your bike wants to follow them. Your confidence will go up and lap times go down naturally.

Until you learn this, your instincts will betray you long before you run out of rubber... Lessons are repeated until they are learned.

Oh, come on skid...you know me better than that...you know I didn't get offended... I was just trying to "stand tall" by my retort...

But you're right...the split second I started to go high, I was looking directly off the track, right where I went down. I've watched Twist of the Wrist and experiencing the SR's first hand in a crash, I now physically know just how prophetic the rules are. Like I mentioned once in a crash video thread...I like to watch crash videos to learn from them, and now I have one of my own to learn from...although I know what went wrong and I knew full well I was about to screw up the millisecond I reached for the brake. I was LITERALLY telling myself as I grabbed the brake, "Nope, nope...don't do it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamminJesus View Post
^^ sound advice,

Ok so, I had a chance to check out the video. You are learning, that is good... the hard way not so good...

The number one mistake you seem to make over and over is you are braking and decelerating well into your corners this is NOT good and a total mind fuck for a beginner! Experienced riders/racers would never do this unless they were trying to avoid something in their direct line. If you were going much faster you would washout on entry doing this. Not to mention possibly get clipped by another rider. You are overloading the front end, making the bike do exactly what it doesn't want to do (stand up and scrub speed mid corner) and giving you nasty feedback and likely fear and/or uncertainty which often leads to target fixation which is probably what you did when you ate it. You absolutely need to work on braking before you enter your corner and throttle control through the corner. You want to match the throttle on entry and begin to gently roll on as you pass your apex using the throttle to help you navigate through the turn and set yourself up for the next.

Secondly, you are entering many corners hugging the inside when you have so much room to work with. Swing it wide and enter coming from the outside in rather than the inside out so you can carry more speed and the turn isn't nearly as sharp and abrupt. Going from the inside out nabs a lot of people on exit because they tend to run off the track. This isn't a race so there is no reason to hug the inside so much to keep the bastards behind you... you should absolutely use the whole track it will help you heaps!

Oh and one more thing... The guy in front of you is clearly inexperienced too, if you find yourself following another rider at this stage in the game you are best to remove them from your minds eye (unless they are an instructor) and focus on what you are doing ONLY (don't hit them of course). I can tell he was a huge distraction for you.

Damn dude...you pick me apart to the T!!! And you're exactly right on all accounts!

I do have a very bad habit of braking and decelerating coming into the corners...I think it's just me still getting use to the bike and learning to REALLY lean at speed and be comfortable. I do get a bit nervous coming into certain corners that can be taken at a much faster pace and I'm still just "touching my toes to the water" rather than just jumping in...

My entries are not near wide enough when I come in initially, causing me to hug the corner and tighten my radius...exactly...I need to use the entire track and really cut the apex off. My throttle control is getting better smoother as I was able to carry more speed this time around, but yes...I REALLY need to work on coming in from the top...I honestly think this may be the breaker to enable me to get much, much faster.

Thanks for all the knowledge, friends! I appreciate y'all's experienced input.



But now I go to the darkside...I go to Oklahoma tomorrow to pick up a 2008 R6...I'll still be here for sure, since this was my starting place and you guys have become some great coaches and friends...I plan on getting a K5 1000 next year for a street bike, so I'll soon again have the Gixxer Genes.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 08:54 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

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Originally Posted by L5750 View Post
it's only a high side because you fell forward over the bike...
That was in no way a high-side, as le skid pointed out, and you then later incorrectly called him out in another thread indicating that he doesn't know the difference.

It would seem to me that it's you that doesn't understand the difference.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 09:05 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

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Originally Posted by Knight2211 View Post
That was in no way a high-side, as le skid pointed out, and you then later incorrectly called him out in another thread indicating that he doesn't know the difference.

It would seem to me that it's you that doesn't understand the difference.
Yeah, that was ironic / priceless. Even after I corrected him, he came back again and stuck the other foot in too
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 09:32 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

You are wrong... the dude that crashed even wrote that he flew over the high side just as Ant D did in the video...

too funny...


Fanboys...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight2211 View Post
That was in no way a high-side, as le skid pointed out, and you then later incorrectly called him out in another thread indicating that he doesn't know the difference.

It would seem to me that it's you that doesn't understand the difference.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 09:49 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

So wait, you are saying my crash wasn't a highside L5750?

Because I was there, and have seen other videos of it from other bikes, and can assure you that it was.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 10:07 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

He thinks that because C.Chaos went over the bars "like you did" and yours actually was a highside, then C.Chaos' MUST have been a highside too.

He may be clueless and annoying but you gotta give it to him, he is persistent
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 10:11 AM
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Re: 2nd time on the track (highsided!)

you both highsided... yours was more spectacular.




Quote:
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So wait, you are saying my crash wasn't a highside L5750?

Because I was there, and have seen other videos of it from other bikes, and can assure you that it was.
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