Brake pads, which ones? - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
xxACKYxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Coast (Australia)
Motorcycle: K9 1k.
Posts: 18
Brake pads, which ones?

Hi guys, while I'm fitting the new front brake master cylinder from the recall I figure I may aswell throw on some braided lines and change the pads in attempt to have a stronger feel. I was thinking spiegler lines but am not 100% on the pads, it'll be for both street and track days. May only be on the street for another 12mths as I'm thinking of retiring it then for track duties only. Rotors are stock.
Cheers.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
xxACKYxx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 06:41 AM
MotoGP
 
Anthony D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey
Motorcycle: Whatever oldgixxer has in his garage...
Posts: 73,190
Garage
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Vesrah RJL, not the SRJL.
Anthony D is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 06:45 AM
SVS
Bearded Viking Admin...
 
SVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ossum, Texas
Motorcycle: '08 KTM SuperDuke R, '99 SV650S, '84 XL600R
Posts: 131,126
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

I like the Carbone Lorraine XBK5 for a street/trackday pad. Don't go full race pad as long as you still ride on the street - they are great when hot but TERRIBLE when cold - and you won't get them to operating temperature just riding around.
SVS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 07:16 AM
Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
 
PhillyGixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Jersey
Motorcycle: 2003 GSXR750
Posts: 971
Garage
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Do OEM's not work?
PhillyGixxer is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 07:20 AM
MotoGP
 
Anthony D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey
Motorcycle: Whatever oldgixxer has in his garage...
Posts: 73,190
Garage
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

They work fine... Even for beginner track day use.
Anthony D is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 07:24 AM
Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
 
PhillyGixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Jersey
Motorcycle: 2003 GSXR750
Posts: 971
Garage
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Never understood changing something if it works. I can understand if they were failing for what they were being used for but like they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
PhillyGixxer is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
xxACKYxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Coast (Australia)
Motorcycle: K9 1k.
Posts: 18
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyGixxer View Post
Never understood changing something if it works. I can understand if they were failing for what they were being used for but like they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Pads are worn mate, I need new ones. I also want a bit more of a solid feel. When it's on the track or if I go for a spirited road ride my lines swell with the heat and pressure...brake fade...it's no good. I want to stop this and now I'm replacing the master cylinder I may aswell do the lot. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
xxACKYxx is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 08:10 AM
Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
 
PhillyGixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Jersey
Motorcycle: 2003 GSXR750
Posts: 971
Garage
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxACKYxx View Post
Pads are worn mate, I need new ones. I also want a bit more of a solid feel. When it's on the track or if I go for a spirited road ride my lines swell with the heat and pressure...brake fade...it's no good. I want to stop this and now I'm replacing the master cylinder I may aswell do the lot. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
Missed you mentioned you were tracking the bike.
Just see a lot of threads about people swapping OEM brake pads for "race brakes pads" for the street which seems like a waste of money. No worries.
PhillyGixxer is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 08:15 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,182
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxACKYxx View Post
Pads are worn mate, I need new ones. I also want a bit more of a solid feel. When it's on the track or if I go for a spirited road ride my lines swell with the heat and pressure...brake fade...it's no good. I want to stop this and now I'm replacing the master cylinder I may aswell do the lot. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App

It's unlikely that the lines are causing the fade or the soft feeling. More likely is your fluid is old and your pads are worn both of which actually cause fade. Not the lines.

Fwiw carbone Lorraine as suggested aren't a bad pad. I have them on my race sv650. But I prefer sbs (sintered for dual duty, dual carbon for race/track only duty) or performance friction. Both have a more progressive feel, great feedback, and smooth let off. I've never gotten good let off or feel from any of the vesrah I have tried



Moto_Joe is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 03:36 PM
Amateur
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 351
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Ive got performance friction .95's in one of my 750's.
Like Joe said, progressive bite (if you like that) and smooth let off.
sir stackalot is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-10-2014, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
xxACKYxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Coast (Australia)
Motorcycle: K9 1k.
Posts: 18
Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
It's unlikely that the lines are causing the fade or the soft feeling. More likely is your fluid is old and your pads are worn both of which actually cause fade. Not the lines.

Fwiw carbone Lorraine as suggested aren't a bad pad. I have them on my race sv650. But I prefer sbs (sintered for dual duty, dual carbon for race/track only duty) or performance friction. Both have a more progressive feel, great feedback, and smooth let off. I've never gotten good let off or feel from any of the vesrah I have tried

It could very well be a combination of all three joe although my fluid is always fresh, and yes the brake lines do contribute to brake fade. Here's something to look at. http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcyc...ed-brake-lines


Sent from Motorcycle.com App

Last edited by xxACKYxx; 05-10-2014 at 11:14 PM.
xxACKYxx is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 12:29 AM
Track Day Winner
 
Hardwrkr13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ontario
Motorcycle: 09 GSXR 1000 (street)/07 GSXR 600 (track)
Posts: 60
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxACKYxx View Post
It could very well be a combination of all three joe although my fluid is always fresh, and yes the brake lines do contribute to brake fade. Here's something to look at. http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcyc...ed-brake-lines


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
Sorry but I agree with Joe. It's very unlikely your lines are the issue. Street duty just won't work your brakes hard enough.
Hardwrkr13 is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
xxACKYxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Coast (Australia)
Motorcycle: K9 1k.
Posts: 18
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardwrkr13 View Post
Sorry but I agree with Joe. It's very unlikely your lines are the issue. Street duty just won't work your brakes hard enough.

Thought I made it clear it's on the track as much as the road. And soon will possibly be just on the track. Just opinions on products may be more helpful guys.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
xxACKYxx is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 07:33 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,182
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxACKYxx View Post
It could very well be a combination of all three joe although my fluid is always fresh, and yes the brake lines do contribute to brake fade. Here's something to look at. http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcyc...ed-brake-lines


Sent from Motorcycle.com App


I disagree with the article.

There are two types of brake fade. Pad fade, and fluid fade.

Pad fade is extremely rare on bikes. Pad fade is when the pad material over heats and builds a gas barrier layer between the pads and the rotor. Pad fade the lever does not get soft. The brakes just seem to stop working as well

Fluid fade comes from having fluid that has too low a wet boiling point or air in the lines. As the temps rise the water in the fluid boils off and creates tiny air pockets which make the lever spongie and it to come back farther.


Modern brake line don't flex near as much as they used to. They are Kevlar lined which has nearly the same tensile strength as steel. Inside that Kevlar lining is the same hose liner as steel lines have.

The benefit that steel lines give you is they often have a smaller inside diameter which has less fluid and gives more feel if you are talented enough to utilize it. They are a bit tougher in a crash. And they may sink heat away a bit better.

The article acts as if the lines are just a rubber hose. They aren't. They have Kevlar webbing inside that does the same job the steel braiding does

Define "fluid is always fresh"???

If I were a betting man if bet your fade is almost assuredly due to either wet fluid, or incomplete bleeding. I have done a few articles on it. Especially with the pre-recall master the gsxr brakes are finicky to bleed but I've developed a technique that dn near guarantees perfect bleeding. I have helped dozens if not hundreds of people cure what they thought was a bad master cylinder or other issue simply with a thorough and proper bleed

My write ups are in the "mods and how to" section. There are three of them. If you do all three your fade will almost guaranteed be gone.





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
:SFH : SBS : VHS :

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Coupon code "motojoe" for discount on hazardous racing leathers
2013 WERA National Challenge 3rd place
WERA Expert #20

Moto_Joe is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 07:35 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,182
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxACKYxx View Post
Thought I made it clear it's on the track as much as the road. And soon will possibly be just on the track. Just opinions on products may be more helpful guys.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App

I gave you an opinion on pads

Honestly lines it doesn't matter other than aesthetics mainly. They all do the same job.



Moto_Joe is offline  
post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 07:37 AM
Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
 
PhillyGixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Jersey
Motorcycle: 2003 GSXR750
Posts: 971
Garage
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
I disagree with the article.

There are two types of brake fade. Pad fade, and fluid fade.

Pad fade is extremely rare on bikes. Pad fade is when the pad material over heats and builds a gas barrier layer between the pads and the rotor. Pad fade the lever does not get soft. The brakes just seem to stop working as well

Fluid fade comes from having fluid that has too low a wet boiling point or air in the lines. As the temps rise the water in the fluid boils off and creates tiny air pockets which make the lever spongie and it to come back farther.


Modern brake line don't flex near as much as they used to. They are Kevlar lined which has nearly the same tensile strength as steel. Inside that Kevlar lining is the same hose liner as steel lines have.

The benefit that steel lines give you is they often have a smaller inside diameter which has less fluid and gives more feel if you are talented enough to utilize it. They are a bit tougher in a crash. And they may sink heat away a bit better.

The article acts as if the lines are just a rubber hose. They aren't. They have Kevlar webbing inside that does the same job the steel braiding does

Define "fluid is always fresh"???

If I were a betting man if bet your fade is almost assuredly due to either wet fluid, or incomplete bleeding. I have done a few articles on it. Especially with the pre-recall master the gsxr brakes are finicky to bleed but I've developed a technique that dn near guarantees perfect bleeding. I have helped dozens if not hundreds of people cure what they thought was a bad master cylinder or other issue simply with a thorough and proper bleed

My write ups are in the "mods and how to" section. There are three of them. If you do all three your fade will almost guaranteed be gone.
I was just going to ask you about braided lines on a street only bike and if there was a difference or not. I was thinking about doing them to my gixxer but haven't started research to see if they are worth it.

Like Joe mentioned I did just bleed my brakes (not sure if previous own ever did so I wanted to be sure). I had pretty much no air in the lines but the fluid was just old and crappy. Brakes feel amazing now.
PhillyGixxer is offline  
post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 07:41 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,182
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyGixxer View Post
I was just going to ask you about braided lines on a street only bike and if there was a difference or not. I was thinking about doing them to my gixxer but haven't started research to see if they are worth it.

Like Joe mentioned I did just bleed my brakes (not sure if previous own ever did so I wanted to be sure). I had pretty much no air in the lines but the fluid was just old and crappy. Brakes feel amazing now.

They do very little for a street ridden bike especially a later model. They do change the feel because of the lower volume of fluid used usually but that is not to say it is "better" but rather "different". They do look better through



Moto_Joe is offline  
post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 07:46 AM
Loves dem stickers&'70s porn star bushes
 
PhillyGixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Jersey
Motorcycle: 2003 GSXR750
Posts: 971
Garage
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
They do very little for a street ridden bike especially a later model. They do change the feel because of the lower volume of fluid used usually but that is not to say it is "better" but rather "different". They do look better through
I thought not only was I going to be cool with my upgraded blue braided brake lines but at the same time it would have turned my bike into a MotoGP bike. Thanks for killing my dream.
PhillyGixxer is offline  
post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
xxACKYxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Coast (Australia)
Motorcycle: K9 1k.
Posts: 18
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
I disagree with the article.

There are two types of brake fade. Pad fade, and fluid fade.

Pad fade is extremely rare on bikes. Pad fade is when the pad material over heats and builds a gas barrier layer between the pads and the rotor. Pad fade the lever does not get soft. The brakes just seem to stop working as well

Fluid fade comes from having fluid that has too low a wet boiling point or air in the lines. As the temps rise the water in the fluid boils off and creates tiny air pockets which make the lever spongie and it to come back farther.


Modern brake line don't flex near as much as they used to. They are Kevlar lined which has nearly the same tensile strength as steel. Inside that Kevlar lining is the same hose liner as steel lines have.

The benefit that steel lines give you is they often have a smaller inside diameter which has less fluid and gives more feel if you are talented enough to utilize it. They are a bit tougher in a crash. And they may sink heat away a bit better.

The article acts as if the lines are just a rubber hose. They aren't. They have Kevlar webbing inside that does the same job the steel braiding does

Define "fluid is always fresh"???

If I were a betting man if bet your fade is almost assuredly due to either wet fluid, or incomplete bleeding. I have done a few articles on it. Especially with the pre-recall master the gsxr brakes are finicky to bleed but I've developed a technique that dn near guarantees perfect bleeding. I have helped dozens if not hundreds of people cure what they thought was a bad master cylinder or other issue simply with a thorough and proper bleed

My write ups are in the "mods and how to" section. There are three of them. If you do all three your fade will almost guaranteed be gone.

My fluid is regularly changed and bled properly, the bike gets a bit of a hard time so it is very well maintained. I didn't ask anyone about opinions on braided lines so I'm a bit confused as to why we are heading down this path. If you are adamant that braided lines are useless that's fine, just don't put them on your bike. A lot of teams and riders may not agree with your opinions but that's fine because all they are are just that, opinions, and we are all entitled to them.
Not meaning to be rude joe, and I appreciate the advice on pads you've given, just seems to be a lot of harping on about lines and fluid when I only asked about pads. Thanks again though buddy.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
xxACKYxx is offline  
post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 04:16 PM
Chubby Chaser
 
SPL170db's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 2005 GSXR-1000 (track), 2006 GSXR-600 (track/race)
Posts: 57,794
Re: Brake pads, which ones?

I used to run Vesrah SRJL-17's on my street bike, RJLs would have been sufficient but I personally prefer the stronger initial bite that the SRJLs have. I'm now running the new SRJL-SS pads, I don't think they make them for all caliper types yet though. They feel similar to the 17's to be but with maybe a tad less initial bite.

On my track/race bike I use Performance Friction 07 compound (replaced by the 13 compound now I believe). I would not recommend these for the street, they require a bit of heat build-up in them to get to proper operating temps, have to drag them a bit coming out of the pits and the sighting lap.

"I never drive faster than I can see...besides that it's all in the reflexes."
-Jack Burton

CCS AM #478
SPL170db is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome