2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in! - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 05:04 AM Thread Starter
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2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

So I bought my new to 2001 GSXR 600 a week ago. It was not running and the previous owner couldn't get it to start. It was filithy too.

I offered him 1,200 and he said yes. Trailered it home and had it running nice that night. I check spark (good), cleaned fuel injectors, checked the fuel pump (good). Then I unplugged the Power Commander and plugged back it the OEM connection to the injectors to the ECU... she fired right to life. Tested and the 2nd gear is slipping.

Figured I should try to fix it before I lose my whole transmission.
Never pulled a Suzuki engine before so here is my play by play.

Removed rear wheel, fairings, drained oil and remove oil filter, drain coolant.
Remove the radiator and overflow reservoir
Removed airbox and exhaust
Disconnect the battery
Discconnect the fuel line from the bottom of the gas tank (it's got an auto locking system that prevents fuel from pouring out I think, because my tank was 3/4 full and no gas came out when i disconnected.
Disconnected all of the electronics (there's about 15 of these)
Disconnected the clutch cable, and throttle cables (including the choke cable).
Disconnect shifter from shift shaft
Remove cover over the front sprocket and the clutch actuator pin thing underneath the cover.
Take chain off the front sprocket (I just left the front sprocket on there but you could take it off)
Removed the engine mounting bots (4 of them). 2 of these bolts require a special castle nut tool (I had one from another bike project).

You'll also need a breaker bar to get these mounting bolts loose... at least I sure did.
PB Blaster penetrating lubricant is very helpful as well for a 14 year old bike it makes the fasteners release MUCH more easily.

The ordering which I removed the bolts which worked well was...
1 top rear through bolt (with the two castle nuts)
2 bottom rear through bolt (with the other two castle nuts)
3 front right mounting bolt
4 front left mounting bolt

Make sure you remove the black plastic internal fairing (I didn't and it cracked a bit when I pulled the last engine mounting bolt because the engine immediately started dropping when I removed this last bolt.

I did not have to pry the engine out much. It just kinda of dropped down on it's own. I had to do a bit of shifting around of things to get it away from the bike just because I didn't have a helper. If I did I would've just had them lift up the back end of the bike while I dragged the engine away.

I got the job done in a about 3.5 hours without a manual moving slowly so it wasn't so bad. Getting it back in I think will be much harder without a helper or an engine jack. So I will have to report back on that.

Note I didn't take off any of the fuel injection/throttle body stuff. It isn't necessary to take off to pull the engine out.

I did not use a shop manual and I am a very average level of weekend warrior mechanic with basic tools.

Tools you need.

8,10,12, 14 mm socket
4,5,6,8 mm hex wrenches
8,10,12,14 mm wrenches
breaker bar
castle nut tool Pit Bike ATV Clutch Removal Tool 110 125 140 150 160 | eBay
I used this that I had from my pit bike (it's a clutch nut removal tool which is much cheaper than others I've seen) ~$20
phillips and flathead screwdrivers
PB Blaster
27mm and 38mm sockets for front and rear axel nuts (if I remember correctly please double check this).
A floor jack or motorcycle double rail jack would be helpful to "catch the engine once you drop it out of the frame (I used a motorcycle tire and some rubber flooring material I can in my garage and this worked fine)
front and rear stands to get bike off the ground (I only used the rear stand personally)

Just double check all of your electronics and ground connections are removed before you you drop then engine or you could risk f'n them up.
Theres also a ground connection on the engine that needs to be removed which you'll see once you get in there.

That's it hope this was helpful to someone.
If you have a question post here and I will answer best I can.




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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 09:02 PM
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Great post Shawn!!! A refreshing contrast to the typical "help me quick" post...

Thanks!

Last edited by mr_hollywood; 11-06-2015 at 09:11 PM.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-07-2015, 03:04 PM
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Now is a great time to check the valve adjustment too. It's not really difficult with the engine in, but a lot easier now.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-07-2015, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

So I got to the transmission and this was my procedure.

Removed oil pan.
Removed all the lower case bolts (about 12 6 mm bolts)
Removed case breather cover (gives you access to some bolts that need to come off)
Remove bolts in the case breather region not sure what exactly they are holding in but they were on there good. Hit 'em with PB Blaster and had to put a lot of torque on them to get them to break loose. I believe they are 6mm hex bolts x 5 definitely had some thread lock on there.
Took off the water pump
Took off the oil strainer (black funnel looking thing in the oil pan)
Took off the clutch cover & clutch (used a cordless impact gun and 30mm deep socket and just held the clutch in place with my bare hands and it came off after hitting it for like 6 seconds with the gun)
There are a couple of sneaky bolts hidden where you take off the oil pan & oil funnel/filter thing.
I hit the case on 4 sides with a hammer and screwdriver covered with a soft rag. It came off eventually but this whole process was a PITA.

There are little o rings on the inside of the case when it comes off and dowels make sure you don't lose that stuff they are small.

After that lower engine case comes off you have perfect access to the transmission gears.
The case itself that I separeted off holds on to the 3 shift forks.

One of my shift forks was worn down quite a bit. I didn't see a ton of damage to the second gear dogs like I was expecting... it was slipping bad. I am thinking it was more of a shift fork issue than a gear issue. To be thorough, I plan on replacing 1 shift fork and the 2nd gear with new OEM stuff. I ordered it but the 2nd gear is delayed and I got an email saying it will be an additional 4-6 business days until they ship the order. I also ordered 4 exhaust gaskets and an oil pan gasket. I plan on using a liquid gasket for the engine case (I like Yamabond).

I considered also just canceling my OEM order and going with a complete used transmission off of ebay. They are going for about $150. I hesitate because that would be a nightmare to buy a used transmission, install it, and have the same problem... (since this is a common issue with 2001-2003 GSXR).

I will talk to the company about the OEM backorder situation on Monday and make my decision.... most likely just wait it out and stick with new OEM (which is the 2003 version of the 2nd gear, apparently and improvement in quality).

I tried to dry fit the case back together just to see how difficult it would be and it seems like I will have to take the shift forks off of the top of the case and off of their shafts in order to position them properly for reinstall.

No issues so far thankfully but annoyed that I am having trouble locating affordable quick ship replacement parts. Called my local salvage part seller and he quoted me $300 for a used Gixxer transmission we was selling... hell no at that price.

After getting into this project I understand why people just buy a new engine rather than dealing with a transmission fix. My order will cost $180 in OEM parts shipped. Trying to pull this job off on a budget and feeling like I am definitely in over head at this point

I will post some pics soon of the job thus far.

Last edited by ShawnColorado; 11-08-2015 at 06:56 AM.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 12:34 AM
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

You're not in over your head. I did this years ago on my bike and it went smooth. Getting the shift forks lined up will take some patience. I'd replace all 3 shift forks, the shafts they ride on, 2nd and 6th gears, the output shaft seal and clutch pushrod seal too.

The problem I had was that the bike would fall back into neutral when accelerating more than 3/4 throttle in second gear. The dog teeth were shot.

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 12:36 AM
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Also look into a Factory Pro shift star. At least re-tighten the bolt and use some loctite while you're in there. They can come loose.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600k2 View Post
Also look into a Factory Pro shift star. At least re-tighten the bolt and use some loctite while you're in there. They can come loose.
I have the same type of wear on my 2nd gear dogs. Also on the shift star what bolt should I retighten and loctite? Is it the one that actually holds the star on?

Also when you replaced your parts did you go with new stuff or used?

When reinstalling the case is it best procedure to remove the shift forks from the shafts and put into placement on the transmission shafts then put the case together and thread the shaft through? I tried to dry fit with the forks on the shafts and had trouble. I don't want to mess up my liquid gasket and make a mess trying to line things up when I reinstall.

On your recommendation doing a valve adjustment while the motor is out. I think that is good advise. The engine is running awesome though. Not thinking it needs any adjustment. It's got 20k miles so I would expect it to need an adjustment but again it's running so good I can't imagine anything is out of adjustment. Thoughts on this before I consider doing the valve adjustment as well.

Thanks
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!




Last edited by ShawnColorado; 11-08-2015 at 08:44 AM.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-08-2015, 12:22 PM
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnColorado View Post
I have the same type of wear on my 2nd gear dogs. Also on the shift star what bolt should I retighten and loctite? Is it the one that actually holds the star on?

Also when you replaced your parts did you go with new stuff or used?

When reinstalling the case is it best procedure to remove the shift forks from the shafts and put into placement on the transmission shafts then put the case together and thread the shaft through? I tried to dry fit with the forks on the shafts and had trouble. I don't want to mess up my liquid gasket and make a mess trying to line things up when I reinstall.

On your recommendation doing a valve adjustment while the motor is out. I think that is good advise. The engine is running awesome though. Not thinking it needs any adjustment. It's got 20k miles so I would expect it to need an adjustment but again it's running so good I can't imagine anything is out of adjustment. Thoughts on this before I consider doing the valve adjustment as well.

Thanks
Loctite the bolt in the center of the star that holds it onto the shift drum.

I got all new parts from a dealership.

I was able to get the case halves back together with everything in neutral and the forks hanging from the shafts in the lower case. I had the engine on my work bench upside down.

You should at least take the valve cover off and check valve clearances.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Update on getting parts.

I found a local used parts place that sells on ebay and they are selling me a used complete transmission for $125.

I decided to go this route just because it was a bit more affordable and gave me more parts for my money. I might clean up the existing transmission by have the 2nd gear machined and find a good condition shifter fork replacement and resell it to get my money back.

Here is a pic of the transmission which is from a 2002 GSXR 600 of unknown mileage.

I pick it up tomorrow and will continue on with my project though I have family coming to visit on Thursday so most likely I will not be doing very much prior to them leaving on the following Tuesday. Stand by. We have had great riding weather here in Colorado recently and thankfully I also have a 2004 Ducati 749 to ride but looking forward to having a good shifting Gixxer to ride sometime in the near future.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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New shift forks and shift drum installed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhRT...m-upload_owner

Last edited by ShawnColorado; 11-10-2015 at 07:15 PM.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Put the new gears in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38p_...ature=youtu.be

Last edited by ShawnColorado; 11-10-2015 at 07:13 PM.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Got the new transmission in and tested it manually. Seems to work. Problem is there is no way to know if it will work under acceleration until I get it all back together and test.

Here's what I did.

I installed the new shift forks and shafts that the forks ride on. Also installed a new shift drum. To do this you need to remove the shift shaft- there's a snap ring on both sides of the shaft that come off. Then is just slides out.
To remove shift drum and shift forks/shafts there are two phillips head keeper bolts and one 4mm bolt. Then there is a 10mm bolt holding on the spring for the shift star thing. I had to use a propane torch to heat p the phillips head screws so they would come off. Once they were really hot they came off easily.

Then I installed the new transmission gears. There is to shafts and two sets of gears 12 total. I removed the new gears from the new shaft and put them on my old shaft on the output one just because I couldn't get the giant nut off that holds on the front sprocket. I hit it with a cordless impact gun and then with a breaker bar but no luck with the motor apart.

I then dry fitted the case back on and manually put the bike through all of the gears a few time. Everything seems to work great.

I than took it back apart (leaving the transmission in neutral), cleaned up the mating surfaces really good with a razor blade, rag, and parts cleaner. Then I put on Yamabond gasket maker stuff (I think this is the best liquid gasket personally), and put it back together then put all of the bolts on and locked it down.

You have to make sure that you get the shift forks to set into the gears correctly which isn't too bad if you dry fit first. You can reach in there with a screwdriver and move them a bit if necessary to find their groves. This part wasn't as bad as I thought it would be it all went together pretty easily. I then cleaned up the extra gasket maker stuff that squished out of the sides and put on the other bolts, pump, oil pan... and that was about it for today.

I think I probably worked on it for like 4 hours today but I was messing around a lot with the gears on the transmission and the first time I put them on the shaft incorrectly. I ended up pulling microfiche from ronniesmailorder.com to make sure I was putting the gears, washer, snap rings, bearings and everything on right. It was a big help.

Hopefully tomorrow I will have the engine ready to put back in the frame.

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 01:41 AM
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

it seems to me you like to use words to describe what you do. we prefer more pictures, though
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastboatster View Post
it seems to me you like to use words to describe what you do. we prefer more pictures, though
I can do that maybe a GoPro shot using time lapse more visuals man I hear ya. It's tough to work and film at the same time with my phone.

Last edited by ShawnColorado; 11-11-2015 at 06:52 AM.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 09:24 AM
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

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Also check the bearings on the transmission.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

So shit I had to pull it apart. After looking at the shop manual I found online it indicates that there are holes in the transmission shaft that oil passes through that you need to line up with the bearings. I missed this doing it the first time so I pulled it apart and started again. This time a did a couple of GoPro vids so I will post them here soon.

It didn't take me very long to pull it apart the second time thankfully... maybe 30 minutes. Easy once you know your way around.
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Some GoPro shots

www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3jtCSuCjdA
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 2nd gear slipping... I'm pulling the engine and going in!

Locking it down with Yamabond 4.

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