Read and sign please - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-15-2016, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Read and sign please

Petition to the WH over the recent ITAR revisions. Specifically how they now umbrella common gunsmithing into the mix.

http://https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-gunsmithing-itar
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:27 AM
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Re: Read and sign please

Did it, now on I'm a watchlist,
and no guns even in my house.
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 04:35 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Originally Posted by Todd_Sails View Post
Did it, now on I'm a watchlist,
and no guns even in my house.
How do you know you're on a watchlist?
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 04:53 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

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How do you know you're on a watchlist?
His tin foil hat told him so.
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 02:36 AM
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Re: Read and sign please

Just signed and confirmed. As an American living in The Czech Republic, I am not legally allowed to own a gun. This was a major concern for me in my decision to move outside of the U.S. I grew up with guns in the house and have owned guns all my life. I appreciate gun freedom more now than I ever have before. If you are on the fence about signing, go ahead and sign. Every little bit of freedom you give up, will have to be regained through uprising. Don't worry about big brother putting you on a list, you already are!

R.I.P. Woody
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 09:47 AM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Originally Posted by knowyourenemy66 View Post
Just signed and confirmed. As an American living in The Czech Republic, I am not legally allowed to own a gun. This was a major concern for me in my decision to move outside of the U.S. I grew up with guns in the house and have owned guns all my life. I appreciate gun freedom more now than I ever have before. If you are on the fence about signing, go ahead and sign. Every little bit of freedom you give up, will have to be regained through uprising. Don't worry about big brother putting you on a list, you already are!
Why did you choose to move out of the states?
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 12:22 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

I didn't leave to avoid taxes, jail or money problems. I left for several reasons. My wife is a Czech citizen and has no family in the U.S. Her widowed elderly mothers health is starting to decline. Our son has no grandparents in the U.S. I am a first generation American from an Italian family. I have always wanted to live in Europe. There are a few other reasons I won't discuss here. My U.S. taxes are, as always, current. I am not a felon or wanted criminal. I am completely debt free with a healthy cash reserve. I have been here since Feb. 1st. and have no regrets. I have never been a person too afraid to gamble in life. It keeps life interesting!

R.I.P. Woody
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 12:30 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Originally Posted by knowyourenemy66 View Post
I didn't leave to avoid taxes, jail or money problems. I left for several reasons. My wife is a Czech citizen and has no family in the U.S. Her widowed elderly mothers health is starting to decline. Our son has no grandparents in the U.S. I am a first generation American from an Italian family. I have always wanted to live in Europe. There are a few other reasons I won't discuss here. My U.S. taxes are, as always, current. I am not a felon or wanted criminal. I am completely debt free with a healthy cash reserve. I have been here since Feb. 1st. and have no regrets. I have never been a person too afraid to gamble in life. It keeps life interesting!
Well that's boring... I thought you robbed a bank

Kidding aside, I was just curious. I've always wanted to live Europe as well, but my opinion has changed with time and age considering current events. Then again, I just saw a dead naked man on the side of the road a few mornings ago. Not sure America is any better We'll see what the Air Force says...

I signed the petition as well. The federal government can't keep their grubby fingers out of anything these days. There is no benefit for this provision other than asserting more control over firearms. Either way, I think most of the gunsmiths will still operate underground
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 02:49 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

Quote:
Originally Posted by knowyourenemy66 View Post
Just signed and confirmed. As an American living in The Czech Republic, I am not legally allowed to own a gun. This was a major concern for me in my decision to move outside of the U.S. I grew up with guns in the house and have owned guns all my life. I appreciate gun freedom more now than I ever have before. If you are on the fence about signing, go ahead and sign. Every little bit of freedom you give up, will have to be regained through uprising. Don't worry about big brother putting you on a list, you already are!
You know statistics show you are safer not owning a gun, even in the US!
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 02:54 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
You know statistics show you are safer not owning a gun, even in the US!
Can you reference your source for these stats?
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 03:05 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
You know statistics show you are safer not owning a gun, even in the US!
Please tell me more.
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 02:05 AM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Originally Posted by tatersalad314 View Post
Can you reference your source for these stats?
This web site has links to some studies, I think it's a fairly well known fact that if you own a gun your chances of being killed goes up, mainly by your own gun.

States United to Prevent Gun Violence | The health risk of a gun in the home outweighs the benefit
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 06:35 AM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
This web site has links to some studies, I think it's a fairly well known fact that if you own a gun your chances of being killed goes up, mainly by your own gun.

States United to Prevent Gun Violence | The health risk of a gun in the home outweighs the benefit
I read the above article. The article points out irresponsible handling and securing of firearms by the owners. I agree that irresponsibility and/or lack of education can lead to death. However, most things in life fall into this same category. Motorcycles, skydiving, chainsaws, alcohol are just a few examples. People kill people. What they choose to use as a weapon has nothing to do with guns. If a human wants to kill another human, just about any solid object can be a weapon. Actually, you could use water, fire, chemical fumes etc...I recall recently some individuals using machetes, large trucks, homemade bombs and so on to kill innocent civilians in the EU. These individuals chose not to use guns, yet the end result was the same. Unprotected, innocent civilians (including children) were purposely killed without the use of firearms. I can appreciate your point of view, but I disagree. I have been shot at, had several firearms pointed and placed against my body (including my head) and have managed to walk away unharmed. I believe all educated responsible adults should be allowed to own, possess and use a firearm to protect themselves and others when necessary. This, of course, is when all other means of protection are exhausted or not available. I respect your opinion. We all develop our own opinions based on life's experiences.

R.I.P. Woody
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 10:05 AM
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Re: Read and sign please

Quote:
Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
This web site has links to some studies, I think it's a fairly well known fact that if you own a gun your chances of being killed goes up, mainly by your own gun.

States United to Prevent Gun Violence | The health risk of a gun in the home outweighs the benefit
To be fair, there are many irresponsible and uneducated gun owners in America. That's essentially the purpose of this article, correct? That's where you hear about accidental suicides, CHL owners who use their weapon as intimidation rather than protection, etc... There are clear arguments that have been made over and over again. The fact remains that the same things can be said about, lets say, driving a car. The chances of being killed or even killing someone else increases the moment you pull out of your driveway vs. not owning/driving a car. If you smoke, you increase the risk dying from lung cancer, etc...

They weapons in my gun safe both next to my bed and in my closet are not going to come to life like Toy Story and roam around my home when I'm asleep. If a person decides to become a gun owner, they should take it upon themselves to become well versed with the operation and safe handling of it. There are safety classes, shooting classes, and free resources for individuals to take advantage of. If they don't, however, it can lead to less than desirable outcomes that you hear about. As for your source, I was hoping it was from a party.

It's sort of like owning and riding a motorcycle. To the average person who only drives cars, they think we are literally insane. Compared to cars, you're definitely more likely to die on a motorcycle. This is true, but there is a safe way to mitigate that risk. With practice and experience. For us, it's a part of who we are, a norm. This can be said about a multitude of things my friend
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by knowyourenemy66 View Post
I read the above article. The article points out irresponsible handling and securing of firearms by the owners. I agree that irresponsibility and/or lack of education can lead to death. However, most things in life fall into this same category. Motorcycles, skydiving, chainsaws, alcohol are just a few examples. People kill people. What they choose to use as a weapon has nothing to do with guns. If a human wants to kill another human, just about any solid object can be a weapon. Actually, you could use water, fire, chemical fumes etc...I recall recently some individuals using machetes, large trucks, homemade bombs and so on to kill innocent civilians in the EU. These individuals chose not to use guns, yet the end result was the same. Unprotected, innocent civilians (including children) were purposely killed without the use of firearms. I can appreciate your point of view, but I disagree. I have been shot at, had several firearms pointed and placed against my body (including my head) and have managed to walk away unharmed. I believe all educated responsible adults should be allowed to own, possess and use a firearm to protect themselves and others when necessary. This, of course, is when all other means of protection are exhausted or not available. I respect your opinion. We all develop our own opinions based on life's experiences.
Well said!
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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 11:23 AM
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Re: Read and sign please

Quote:
Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
You know statistics show you are safer not owning a gun, even in the US!

My personal (anecdotal) stat, is I would not be here typing this if I didn't own a gun.
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 12:37 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

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My personal (anecdotal) stat, is I would not be here typing this if I didn't own a gun.
Especially in Detroit
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 12:47 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Especially in Detroit
I used to drive by this sign daily.
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 02:46 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatersalad314 View Post
To be fair, there are many irresponsible and uneducated gun owners in America. That's essentially the purpose of this article, correct? That's where you hear about accidental suicides, CHL owners who use their weapon as intimidation rather than protection, etc... There are clear arguments that have been made over and over again. The fact remains that the same things can be said about, lets say, driving a car. The chances of being killed or even killing someone else increases the moment you pull out of your driveway vs. not owning/driving a car. If you smoke, you increase the risk dying from lung cancer, etc...

They weapons in my gun safe both next to my bed and in my closet are not going to come to life like Toy Story and roam around my home when I'm asleep. If a person decides to become a gun owner, they should take it upon themselves to become well versed with the operation and safe handling of it. There are safety classes, shooting classes, and free resources for individuals to take advantage of. If they don't, however, it can lead to less than desirable outcomes that you hear about. As for your source, I was hoping it was from a party.

It's sort of like owning and riding a motorcycle. To the average person who only drives cars, they think we are literally insane. Compared to cars, you're definitely more likely to die on a motorcycle. This is true, but there is a safe way to mitigate that risk. With practice and experience. For us, it's a part of who we are, a norm. This can be said about a multitude of things my friend
I fully agree with you, statistics don't apply to individuals they are after all just statistics.

My original point was that moving to Europe and not owning a gun makes you safer (statistically speaking) than living in the US and owning one.

Having never lived in the US myself I can't say if I would or would not want to own a gun in such a situation. What we do know is that countries with stronger gun control have less gun related deaths.

I guess if you lived in a country with no speed limits you would have a similar debate - "it's my freedom to drive as fast as I like and I'm a safe driver" vs "it will save lives if you adopt a speed limit"....
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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 08-18-2016, 02:51 PM
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Re: Read and sign please

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Originally Posted by knowyourenemy66 View Post
I didn't leave to avoid taxes, jail or money problems. I left for several reasons. My wife is a Czech citizen and has no family in the U.S. Her widowed elderly mothers health is starting to decline. Our son has no grandparents in the U.S. I am a first generation American from an Italian family. I have always wanted to live in Europe. There are a few other reasons I won't discuss here. My U.S. taxes are, as always, current. I am not a felon or wanted criminal. I am completely debt free with a healthy cash reserve. I have been here since Feb. 1st. and have no regrets. I have never been a person too afraid to gamble in life. It keeps life interesting!
Incidentally (and off topic) the US tax rules are a nightmare (my wife is from the US) - they expect you to declare your income living abroad and even pay US tax on income you might have already paid tax on locally (above a threshold). For that reason a lot of US citizens are giving up their citizenship which I think is a shame and grossly unfair. I expect you are already aware of FATCA and it's really hard to understand why countries like the UK comply with these reporting rules - if the boot was on the other foot I strongly doubt the US would comply.....

[rant over]
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