Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth? - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
Taught Goatsee everything he "knows"
 
nitrous36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wilmington, NC
Motorcycle: K4 GSXR 600
Posts: 12,629
Question Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

I was searching about this problem on google before asking here. I always heard this mentioned, was curious about the issue and wanted to know myself. I was reading another forum on the topic and found this article. Its a pretty good read.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_99130369/

What do you guys think? Does leaving a mag loaded for long periods causes to wear out? Or is it just a myth?

The whole article is copied and pasted below in case link doesnt work.

-------------------------------FULL ARTICLE----------------------------------

FindArticles > American Handgunner > May-June, 2003 > Article > Print friendly

Magazine spring madness: 'creep' to your 'elastic limit' to un-earth the urban legend of 'spring-set'
John S. Layman

The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.

The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?

Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.

Shameful Spring Benders

To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.

Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.

Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.

We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.

At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.

As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.

Trust Us

When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.

When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.

Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.

I could be wrong.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don't quote me on that.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I Fuck My Mom and Love It View Post
Ban me, that shit makes me fuckin hard!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceiling Cat View Post
Prepare to get hard then.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nitrous36 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 08:28 PM
Sirijus Indelxsjul Diskushuns Onley
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 5,094
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Myth
Mr. Bojangles is offline  
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 10:39 PM
Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,465
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Yes, Myth.
Starsky is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 01:50 AM
Boredz Crackhead
 
Mr. Fluffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wrong Side of the Road
Motorcycle: K9 600
Posts: 11,679
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Both my handguns always have 10 rounds in them incase some one comes in the front door that shouldn't.
Mr. Fluffer is offline  
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 02:13 AM
Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Indiana
Motorcycle: '07 GSX-R 600 in Blue/Black
Posts: 2,287
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Hogwash... The springs are engineered for their purpose and so long as you don't modify them they should not have issues.
MikeDVB is offline  
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 04:43 AM
SVS
Bearded Viking Admin...
 
SVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ossum, Texas
Motorcycle: '08 KTM SuperDuke R, '99 SV650S, '84 XL600R
Posts: 131,126
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Yep, myth. In the sandbox my magazines were loaded up the whole time I was there - if they were spent or unloaded for cleaning (rarely, didn't get much sand in the pouches and I carried the mags upside down so sand didn't get far) they would get reloaded soon after. Never had spring issues.
SVS is offline  
post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 06:49 AM
Mr Creepy McCreep
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 2,440
Myth. Im law enforcement and out mags stay loaded year around the only time they are unloaded is at the gun range an quickly reloaded after some targets have been masacred

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Motorcycle.com App
tlee2989 is offline  
post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 06:50 AM
Mr Creepy McCreep
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 2,440
*our mags

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Motorcycle.com App
tlee2989 is offline  
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 06:58 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
scottgsxr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Overland Park, KS
Motorcycle: k8 gsxr 600
Posts: 76
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Myth. As long as you have a good working mag to start with, it will still be working if you leave it loaded.
scottgsxr is offline  
post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 08:13 AM
Track Day Winner
 
gsxr1scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NW Ohio
Motorcycle: 2008 GSX-R 1000
Posts: 58
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Myth... springs will fail over time from use i.e. compressed/ non compressed compressed/ non compressed. staying either way for long periods of time will do nothing to compromise the spring strength...
gsxr1scout is offline  
post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-04-2012, 08:58 AM
Amateur
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Motorcycle: 2012 ZX-10R
Posts: 450
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr1scout View Post
Myth... springs will fail over time from use i.e. compressed/ non compressed compressed/ non compressed. staying either way for long periods of time will do nothing to compromise the spring strength...
Truth.
Rooftop voter is offline  
post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-07-2012, 01:04 AM
Track Day Winner
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Redmond, WA
Motorcycle: '06 GSX-R 600
Posts: 36
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

TBH, depends. A good mag will have no problems as the above posters mentioned.

However, based on my time in the sandbox, H&K M16 mags had absolutely no issues while Baretta's magazines weren't worth using as paperweights. You might as well stick matchbox cars in the handles of a Baretta if the mags have been loaded for a week+ or have more than 6.2 grains of sand in them.
tomlinas is offline  
post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 08:36 PM
!##NULL##!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Representing the EAST coast
Motorcycle: The one "you" hacked at GDC!!
Posts: 938
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Hoping its a myth
Losymis is offline  
post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 10:19 PM
I dont love OG's cack anymore
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,590
Garage
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

Leaving it loaded is fine most often.
Depends on the manufacturer however, you get what you pay for. Some springs can wear out, some hold their own quite well. However, things do wear out eventually just like anything else.
Travis V is offline  
post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-28-2012, 07:05 AM
Amateur
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Motorcycle: 2001 GSX-R600
Posts: 327
I always rotated rifle mags every month deployed because after a few months I'd get issues with rounds failing to feed. Pistol was even worse, but also keep in mind these are the shitty mags we get issued.

Unless I left the mags with the spring out over night or something every few rounds you had to do the old tap rack bang. Now whether leaving them out, or just the act of routinely reloading them is what helped I don't know. I just know 100% from experience it does matter. And cleanliness wasnt the issue with the mags or rounds.

Now the pistol seemed to be much worse when I would try to manually unload rounds. As in even you popped a round out another round wouldnt even move up unless you shook the mag or tapped it on your hand. I will say I never had a failure to feed though probably because the recoil helped feed the round. My m4 and m16 always had this issue though. Hell I'd have it so bad with mags if I unloaded one round after a few months I could turn the mag upside down and they would all fall out of I shook it lol.
ahhhwhereditgo is offline  
post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-28-2012, 08:15 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahhhwhereditgo View Post
I always rotated rifle mags every month deployed because after a few months I'd get issues with rounds failing to feed. Pistol was even worse, but also keep in mind these are the shitty mags we get issued.

Unless I left the mags with the spring out over night or something every few rounds you had to do the old tap rack bang. Now whether leaving them out, or just the act of routinely reloading them is what helped I don't know. I just know 100% from experience it does matter. And cleanliness wasnt the issue with the mags or rounds.

Now the pistol seemed to be much worse when I would try to manually unload rounds. As in even you popped a round out another round wouldnt even move up unless you shook the mag or tapped it on your hand. I will say I never had a failure to feed though probably because the recoil helped feed the round. My m4 and m16 always had this issue though. Hell I'd have it so bad with mags if I unloaded one round after a few months I could turn the mag upside down and they would all fall out of I shook it lol.
That sounds like some shitty mags for sure. Probably not the spring at all. Spring worked later in the same may right? Then spring was not damaged.

My carry mags have been loaded pretty much constantly for years now. Never fails to fire priperly every time I ask it to at the range



Moto_Joe is offline  
post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 09:22 PM
Amateur
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Motorcycle: 2001 GSX-R600
Posts: 327
Yea they really are crappy. I will like to note how everyone who says they have left them loaded for months/years now obviously hasn't fired them so who knows if they are really okay? Lol. If you fire more then every couple of months that's not really the same as letting them sit for 6 months or a year + or something. But yea, the mags we get are so bad we usually don't even load them to their intended max to prevent feeding issues. As in usually 25 or 26 for a 30 round mag.

I know only because I've been on a range after a few months to make sure our bzo was still good and have had it happen. Then it happened at exactly when I didn't need it to be happening and rotating has been a habit since lol. Pulled the mag out after I wasn't getting a feed and popped a different mag in. After everything I checked the first mag and I could see the rounds not getting pushed up. Like they were just chilling there loose if you shook it. Only takes that one time haha. If I was smart I should have not been lazy about it the few other times it happened before on ranges and listened to the other guys I thought were just being paranoid lol...

Better mags should be fairly reliable though. Last deployment I had some high-speed clear mags my buddy who just got back threw at me and it was night and day. I forgot who makes them,or how much they were. I just remember thinking he was insane when he told me how much they cost. Called him a gear queer until I got through the deployment with them lol. You get what you pay for though I guess. I probably did not need to rotate those, or definitely not as often.

And the rotating was more of a preventative thing. I usually just switched them out at the armory if they got bad, although I'm sure they probably just got reissued haha. So not sure if letting the mags "rest" after would fix it. Letting them sit empty overnight or a few days every month or so seemed to prevent issues.

Or maybe it is just bad luck, crappy mags and paranoia . Not taking that chance again though lol.
ahhhwhereditgo is offline  
post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-03-2012, 06:12 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,182
Re: Leaving bullets in mag cause damage - a myth?

The question is about the springs right....

If my mags stay loaded, and even if I fire them and load them right back, the spring is still compressed. So fired or not it is the same thing.

What it sounds like to me is not a spring issue, but a shitty mag issue you werehaving. If it were the spring unloading it and loading it again wouldnt fix it. Once a spring is damaged it is damaged permanently



Moto_Joe is offline  
post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-03-2012, 09:30 AM
Expert
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Central Mexifornia
Motorcycle: K6 600
Posts: 2,237
I've left magazines loaded for a whole deployment and they are still fine. And ahhwhereditgo you're probably thinking of pmags, magpulls, whatever you want to call them. Those things are great... never malfunction like the shitty issued ones.

Last edited by kevin.g; 10-03-2012 at 09:33 AM.
kevin.g is offline  
post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-03-2012, 09:47 AM
Expert
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Valparaiso, FL
Motorcycle: K9 750
Posts: 1,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin.g View Post
I've left magazines loaded for a whole deployment and they are still fine. And ahhwhereditgo you're probably thinking of pmags, magpulls, whatever you want to call them. Those things are great... never malfunction like the shitty issued ones.
:+1 on the Pmags its all I carry downrange now.
Cassidy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome