.22LR advise - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-29-2012, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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.22LR advise

So about a month ago I bought a Sig Saur mosquito.

I absolutely love the gun but I really suck at shooting apperently. I am down to about a 1in. group at 10 feet. How the hell do people manage 1 in. groups at 25 yard (75 feet) I can barely hit a 20. in group.

I bought a laser sight to work on my dry firing and seeing how much I am really shaking when I pull the trigger. My natural shake is about 1 in. at 25 feet. Sometime when I squease the trigger it goes off clean and feel about 4 lbs and I expand to 2 inches. Sometimes it sticks and feels a lot more like 8 lbs. When this happens and I pull the trigger it goes to about 4 inches. If I was shooting these kind of grouping at 25 feet (8 yards) I would be much happier however I am shooting about 5-6 inch groups at 25 feet.


Next are ammo questions

FTF is caused by bad ammo (when you have a good strike)
FTE is caused by bad ammo (not enought lip on the shell to grap)
FTL is caused by not hot enought ammo (failure to fully cycle)
Stovepipes ??? Too hot ammo and or too cold ammo???

I bought a brick of thunderbolts
lots of duds
lots of FTE
very few FTL
couple stove pipes

Bought a brick of 525 fed champions 36gr copper plated
ran nearly perfectly

Bought a brick of 550 fed wally world
ran nearly perfectly till the gun had 300 rounds though it and got dirty

bought a brick of 555 whichester super X
FTL Couldnt cycle the gun 50% of the time and felt weak

bought a brick of cyclones
lots of duds
couple FTE
very few FTL even when the gun was dirty
couple stove pipes

bought a brick of fed champion 40 gr led (not value pack)
couldnt even cycle the weapon
what the hell does champion mean as the 500 brick and 525 brick were completely different.

how consistant is ammo between lots? If wally world work this time will it work next time? Why did one champions work and the next did not?
accuracy as been about the same on all the ammo.

Last edited by Nichin; 02-29-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-01-2012, 03:50 PM
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Re: .22LR advise

Sig recommends CCI mini mags for this gun. Try them, it will run flawless. Kind of pricey compared to the cheap stuff though. Main thing is keep the gun clean.
Good ammo and copper plated bullets will help a lot.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 04:29 PM
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Sounds like it needs a thorough cleaning. The variation in trigger pull is most certainly dirt and at least some of the cycling issues.

.22s can create a lot of powder and lead residue and the cartridges don't have much recoil to reload with so it doesn't take much to cause problems.

Clean everything well, including the trigger mechanism, apply a thin layer of lube and try again. Like already mentioned, plated bullets help some and so do more powerful loads - as long as the gun is clean
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-02-2012, 04:42 PM
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Re: .22LR advise

First off stop buying bricks of ammo until you find what it likes...

Those guns are known to be ammo picky... CCI Mini-Mags work best in my Buckmark too

Is this your first firearm? Any formal training?

Work on trigger and breathing control... Maybe leave the laser off for a while. A lot of people focus way to much on the dot and not the sight picture..
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-03-2012, 05:33 PM
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Re: .22LR advise

That gun isn't built for high accuracy shooting. The Ruger MKIII and Browning Buckmark are more suited for accuracy shooting. The Mosquito and P22 are more for training aides. They're a 75% scale gun that takes cheap ammo.

The shake you have is natural. It's referred to as "arc of movement" in bullseye shooting. There's nothing you can do to eliminate it. Arm strengthening exercises can reduce your arc of movement but it's always there.

If you're looking for a bullseye gun then find a used Walther GSP. Free pistols, like Hammerli, Steyr, Morini, etc will easily do 1 inch at 50 meters because that's what they're built for.

That gun also likes high powered ammo. The best ammo I've found for my P22 is Fiochi.

FTE's are from the gun getting dirty. Make sure you're cleaning the extractor well along with the chamber. The specs on .22lr casings are pretty consistent, they're not too small causing the extractor to jump. It's crud that's binding the extractor limiting its range of movement.

Standard velocity ammo is going to be more accurate. High velocity ammo in the .22lr is less stable when it goes super sonic.

Handgun accuracy is about 2 things. 1) Smoooooooooooththththththththly pulling the trigger. 2) Keeping the front and rear sight aligned. If you do both at the same time it's a 10 ring every time.

Newish shooters often think they're pulling smooth but they start smooth and finish with a jerk. The laser sight isn't helping either. You're not focusing on the front sight. Your focus should be on the front sight, not the target. The sights are what aim the gun, not the target. You should be able to call your shots, even to the ring, based on how the front sight moves after the trigger breaks.

Getting some professional coaching/advise will be incredibly helpful. John Zurek is/was the range master at the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club. If you can get in contact with him he'll probably be able to give you pointers. John is an Olympic level Free pistol competitor. I've shot with him when he came to Utah for some matches. He freely gave the U of U pistol team a lot of advise.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-05-2012, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: .22LR advise

@Winger

Thanks for the advise.

I have a couple more questions.

When giving your grouping size is it common it give the radius or diameter?

What is the limit of the mosquito, i.e. at what point do I need to just get a better gun?

Do lasers move as the barrel heats up? I noticed that my point of impact keeps changing,



I did go rent a ruger mark III target (7 inch barrel i think) and it increased my accuracy 4 or 5 times. I was hitting about a 1/2 inch groups at 18 feet. I still got a long way to go to get to 1 inch at 50 meters I have a friend who is a member at the pheonix rod and gun club hopefully he can get me in

Last edited by Nichin; 03-05-2012 at 02:44 PM.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-05-2012, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: .22LR advise

I also forgot to mention that I do a field strip and clean every time I go out (400-500 rounds). How often do I need to tear appart the entire pistol and clean?
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-06-2012, 07:58 AM
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Re: .22LR advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichin View Post
@Winger

Thanks for the advise.

I have a couple more questions.

When giving your grouping size is it common it give the radius or diameter?

What is the limit of the mosquito, i.e. at what point do I need to just get a better gun?

Do lasers move as the barrel heats up? I noticed that my point of impact keeps changing,

I did go rent a ruger mark III target (7 inch barrel i think) and it increased my accuracy 4 or 5 times. I was hitting about a 1/2 inch groups at 18 feet. I still got a long way to go to get to 1 inch at 50 meters I have a friend who is a member at the pheonix rod and gun club hopefully he can get me in
Most do group size by the diameter. Some will go from farthest edge to farthest edge, others will go from farthest center point to farthest center point.

The Mosquito isn't going to be very competitive if you want to do bullseye shooting at full distance. As you learn to properly shoot a handgun you'll probably find the gun is more accurate than you originally thought. My P22 will do a half-dollar sized group at 50 feet if I do my part. When I take that to 25 yards the affects of the short sight radius, basic grip, crappy trigger, and large MOA sights opens up the grouping.

Even though the .22lr recoil is light the laser sight mount may not be very sturdy. Also, the way you first pick up the gun can affect how it sits in your hand which subsequently changes the POI. You have to make sure you're consistently holding the gun the same way each time you shoot it.

Follow through is also important. If you're dropping the gun shortly after the trigger breaks you're not following through. You should be watching the front sight. The front sight will tell you everything you need to know about the shot, you just have to learn how to read it.

To give you an idea, these are the kind of guns that are purpose built for bullseye shooting. They are pricey though for a .22lr.






You can also do quite a bit with an accurized 1911 without all the fancy grips and forward barrel weight.

Just getting your feet wet in bullseye is best started with the Ruger, Browning, or Walther SP22. The SP22 M4 is a grip loading, cheaper version of the GSP. Don't be quick to replace the Mosquito though. It's much like riding a 250. If you can ride a 250 fast you can ride large bikes fast too. If you can accurately shoot the Mosquito you can accurately shoot just about any gun.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-06-2012, 08:01 AM
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Re: .22LR advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichin View Post
I also forgot to mention that I do a field strip and clean every time I go out (400-500 rounds). How often do I need to tear appart the entire pistol and clean?
I break down my P22 every other time. My gun doesn't like a lot of oil lubricant. After I clean the gun I use an air hose to blow away excess oil, then I use a cloth to grab more. After that I put a bit of graphite on the slide.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 11:09 AM
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Re: .22LR advise

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Originally Posted by Winger View Post
Most do group size by the diameter. Some will go from farthest edge to farthest edge, others will go from farthest center point to farthest center point.

The Mosquito isn't going to be very competitive if you want to do bullseye shooting at full distance. As you learn to properly shoot a handgun you'll probably find the gun is more accurate than you originally thought. My P22 will do a half-dollar sized group at 50 feet if I do my part. When I take that to 25 yards the affects of the short sight radius, basic grip, crappy trigger, and large MOA sights opens up the grouping.

Even though the .22lr recoil is light the laser sight mount may not be very sturdy. Also, the way you first pick up the gun can affect how it sits in your hand which subsequently changes the POI. You have to make sure you're consistently holding the gun the same way each time you shoot it.

Follow through is also important. If you're dropping the gun shortly after the trigger breaks you're not following through. You should be watching the front sight. The front sight will tell you everything you need to know about the shot, you just have to learn how to read it.

To give you an idea, these are the kind of guns that are purpose built for bullseye shooting. They are pricey though for a .22lr.






You can also do quite a bit with an accurized 1911 without all the fancy grips and forward barrel weight.

Just getting your feet wet in bullseye is best started with the Ruger, Browning, or Walther SP22. The SP22 M4 is a grip loading, cheaper version of the GSP. Don't be quick to replace the Mosquito though. It's much like riding a 250. If you can ride a 250 fast you can ride large bikes fast too. If you can accurately shoot the Mosquito you can accurately shoot just about any gun.

Those are some extreme examples of competition .22's.

A more realistic example of a .22 that can hold a nice tight group is something like the Ruger MkIII with a heavy barrel.



I bought mine used for under $300 and put a $100 red dot sight on it. I've shot in the top 10 pretty often with that gun at local shooting matches.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/11/1...gmarkiii_1005/
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_MarkIII-Hunter.htm
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: .22LR advise

Like I said the ruger mark III is a great shooting gun (1 inch at 15 feet for me) but I hate the controls and I hate the grip. If I could put a buy a ruger and put the trigger in my mosquito I would.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 12:40 PM
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Re: .22LR advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichin View Post
Like I said the ruger mark III is a great shooting gun (1 inch at 15 feet for me) but I hate the controls and I hate the grip. If I could put a buy a ruger and put the trigger in my mosquito I would.
Try a Browning Buckmark too if you can, might be able to find a used one for a good price.



I have its predecessor from the late 60s/early 70s, the Browning M150 International. It's about the most accurate .22 this side of full-on match guns and it'll hold its own against them too. I paid about $300 for mine some 12-14 years ago which may sound relatively expensive for a used gun but the accuracy and especially the trigger action makes it worth it over cheaper guns like the Mosquito.



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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 01:28 PM
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Re: .22LR advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichin View Post
Like I said the ruger mark III is a great shooting gun (1 inch at 15 feet for me) but I hate the controls and I hate the grip. If I could put a buy a ruger and put the trigger in my mosquito I would.
Maybe the Walther SP22 is what will feel right and shoot nice. The M2 variant is likely the closest thing to a MKIII.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...category=43326

M1 variant


M2 variant


M3 variant


M4 variant
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