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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-01-2010, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Need some help from ar15 people.

Ok so I am looking to do a cheap build and this will be my first ar. When I say cheap I mean the perfect balance between inexpensive but good quality products, not just all shitty cheap stuff. I could take some shitty parts because I plan on upgrading the gun slowly to all great quality parts and parts I know i will want once I get an ar and know what I want out of an ar. I am confused as to why people build because when I add up all the stuff I need to buy I could just buy a complete dmps for the money. So am I doing something wrong or does building actually cost as much as buying a complete rifle? I have watched the brownels videos on how to build one but are there and other sources you guys suggest I check out to find cheap, good parts? Thanks for the help.
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-01-2010, 09:21 PM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

I don't know a lot about AR's, but philosophically speaking about buying things in general, always do it right the first time and don't cheap out or you'll end up spending more in the long run.

It's not always about the money, either. If you want a new motorcycle, you would never buy all the parts and build it 'cause it would cost and arm and a leg, it would take a long time, you might not have all the specialty equipment you need in order to do it right and if you make a mistake, you have no warranty to cover you. Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

Seriously, just save your money and buy a Colt or a Bushmaster and be done with it!

Do your homework, though. Some of the gun forums have some great information available and they can help you find a great firearm without going overboard. Maybe even a used one.

Let us know what you're going to get, though. I'm interested because I've got the AR on my already too-long list of guns to buy!

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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 11:08 AM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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Originally Posted by sbombard15 View Post
Ok so I am looking to do a cheap build and this will be my first ar. When I say cheap I mean the perfect balance between inexpensive but good quality products, not just all shitty cheap stuff. I could take some shitty parts because I plan on upgrading the gun slowly to all great quality parts and parts I know i will want once I get an ar and know what I want out of an ar. I am confused as to why people build because when I add up all the stuff I need to buy I could just buy a complete dmps for the money. So am I doing something wrong or does building actually cost as much as buying a complete rifle? I have watched the brownels videos on how to build one but are there and other sources you guys suggest I check out to find cheap, good parts? Thanks for the help.
Owner of a Bushmaster here.. I would go with Wag and say just to buy one built. People building their own weapons isn't for the price difference but for the joy of building a weapon. Usually then money is no option.

If you want to build one man don't skimp on the thing. Buy the best of the best. Just remember you get what you pay for. You start buying average stuff you could have problems. Might as well just bite the bullet and go all out.

I got a Bushmaster for $9XX brand new, and I've put 10k rounds through it probably. No problems whatsoever.
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

Thanks guys. Looks like Ill just keep saving for that colt I want.
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 12:12 PM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

I built my own but it wasn't to save money - it was to create the set-up I wanted using the parts that I wanted. I'm going to start building my second one this winter the same way.
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 03:06 PM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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Thanks guys. Looks like Ill just keep saving for that colt I want.
GACK! Why would you throw money at company that doesn't trust you?

Get an Armalite, or Bushmaster at the least.

I've built 3; 2 for NRA Highpower and a varmiter. "Joy" had nothing to do with it........

Keep in mind: building them requires a couple special tools (barrel wrench, vise jig). If you can't buy exactly (or close to it) what you are looking for (match trigger, barrel, stock), you could end up dis-assembling most of the way anyhow.

I suggest: build the lower, buy a completed upper.

Last edited by GunNut; 11-02-2010 at 03:35 PM.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-02-2010, 03:45 PM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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I suggest: build the lower, buy a completed upper.
+1 - I had a lot of fun assembling the lower (other than firing a few detent springs across the damn room ) and it gave me some good insight as to how every works
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

Thanks for the research guys. I have been doing A LOT of research and really want to build my own. I really enjoyed converting my saiga ak so I think I will really enjoy this. What have you guys heard about spike lowers btw?


And gunnut, Im just curious as to why you think colt dosnt trust people. I have never heard that before.


Thanks.
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 10:32 AM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

Both of my lowers are spike, I love 'em
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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Both of my lowers are spike, I love 'em
Thats great to hear. What I am thinking is a spikes lower, DMPS upper, and not sure about the barrel but I hear great things about olympic arms but I might get a DMPS complete upper like suggested. What do you think about that combo?
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 12:19 PM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

My friend had a DPMS slickside upper that was his range slut. I put about 500 rounds through it when I was camping () with no failures to feed, fire or eject. He's likes it as well. I've heard good things about DPMS for what they are as a company - a maker of affordable, utilitarian equipment. I don't know much about Olympic Arms

Neither one is upper-tier elite stuff but it'll get the job done and would make it affordable to dabble in the AR world. You'll end up catching Black Rifle Disease and buying high end stuff next though I also suggest a complete upper because I have heard stories of people having problems mating some barrels to certain bolt carrier groups. buying a complete upper makes sure there aren't compatibility issues.

AR15.com is amazing for this kind of info, they have loads of threads on each of those companies. Huge site, lots of knowledge


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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-03-2010, 12:21 PM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

I should probably clarify on why I like my Spikes lowers - awesome machine tolerances, everything fit perfectly and snugly, amazing level of finish. Very high quality at a very affordable price. No flashing to deal with, no blemishes, quick communication and shipping. can't say enough nice things about Spikes.
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-04-2010, 11:37 AM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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Originally Posted by sbombard15 View Post
Thanks for the research guys. I have been doing A LOT of research and really want to build my own. I really enjoyed converting my saiga ak so I think I will really enjoy this. What have you guys heard about spike lowers btw?
Never heard of Spike. That's neither good nor bad....I just never heard of 'em.

Quote:
And gunnut, Im just curious as to why you think colt dosnt trust people. I have never heard that before.
Short answer: 2 reasons; "large pin" uppers and the inability to use a DIAS with a Colt rifle. At least, you couldn't use the drop-in autosear without milling out the lower...

These were measures taken by Colt to prevent the "civilian market" from using GI parts with their rifles.
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-04-2010, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

Thanks for all the info wally. Ill definitely buy a spikes lower and decide on a complete upper.


And gunnut, I never knew all that but it really pisses me off. I never thought I would say this but I dont think I will be buying a colt in the future..
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-07-2010, 11:10 PM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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Originally Posted by sbombard15 View Post
Ok so I am looking to do a cheap build and this will be my first ar. When I say cheap I mean the perfect balance between inexpensive but good quality products, not just all shitty cheap stuff. I could take some shitty parts because I plan on upgrading the gun slowly to all great quality parts and parts I know i will want once I get an ar and know what I want out of an ar. I am confused as to why people build because when I add up all the stuff I need to buy I could just buy a complete dmps for the money. So am I doing something wrong or does building actually cost as much as buying a complete rifle? I have watched the brownels videos on how to build one but are there and other sources you guys suggest I check out to find cheap, good parts? Thanks for the help.
Building it most the time costs more. like said above you will need tools
Most people who build on know what they want and what they are going to use it for. light bullets want a more twist heavy want a lower twist. size barrel. free float or non-free float, A3 upper, A2 upper, A2 front sight
DI gas system, Gas piston system.. etc etc, the list never stops, they are like lego's

look up thios web site
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/forums.html


Look up Plum crazy for a lower. Complete are $120.
I know a few people that have one have 10K rounds with them no problems

For uppers look up these places.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=934062


http://www.redxarms.com/


http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M...-urg-m4-16.htm This is a really good one.


http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Barrel_...y_p/dt1023.htm

http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_bu_16bu.html

Del-ton has some good deals. You can get a full AR for 750 from them
I hear good things about them. The last Magazine I just bought has a write up about their AR's

I am either going with the BCM or the Red-xarms upper

I am building my own but only by buying a full lower and a full upper for the price

just some info for ya

have fun.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-08-2010, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

Thanks for all the info.
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 11:12 AM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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Look up Plum crazy for a lower. Complete are $120.
I know a few people that have one have 10K rounds with them no problems
Wow...I might get one of these for an ultra-light AR I want to build. Perhaps magpul moe carbine handguards with an ultra light pencil barrel. $120 for a complete lower is a great deal, assuming it actually holds up.

http://www.pcfmfg.com/index.php?opti...d=34&Itemid=50
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 07:48 PM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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Wow...I might get one of these for an ultra-light AR I want to build. Perhaps magpul moe carbine handguards with an ultra light pencil barrel. $120 for a complete lower is a great deal, assuming it actually holds up.

http://www.pcfmfg.com/index.php?opti...d=34&Itemid=50
this is where I got mine from

www.gunsfx.com
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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 04:07 AM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

OP,

I'm a long time AR/evil black rifle owner, do the shooting/tactical schools, etc. I'll try to point you in the right direction..


First thing you need to do is decide what the gun will be used for.. There's no point in building a precision 24" tack driver with a magnified optic if you are going to use it for things that go bump in the night or shooting zombies across the yard. For most guys, iron sights and a 16" mil spec barrel is perfect. In fact, a plain jane 16" flat top AR is perfect for 95% of the shooting public. AR15's are almost bolt gun accruate as they come in standard configurations, hanging a lot of shit off of them and using heavy barrels gets them away from the purpose they were designed for: Shooting people out to 300 meters practically and out to 800 meters with practiced, aimed shots.

Yes, you can change things in the basic AR recipe to bias the rifle's capability one way or another but to be honest there's not much you can't do with a standard M4 copy. If I were in your place, I would just buy a lower, assemble it with a match trigger, put a decent stock on it and then buy a cheap milspec upper for it already assembled. Buying cheap and then upgrading later if you want to optimize it to your needs is better than spending a metric assload of cash on a rifle you don't even know and finding out it doesn't serve you well.

My honest opinion is that you want to build a rifle that is very fast shooting in practical combat application to 350 meters. This is about as far as you could ever conceivably shoot in a self defense situation, and if you were shooting further than that you likely are using a different gun in the first place or know your AR well enough to make the hits at further distances. A 16" AR with decent factory ammo (as in Not the expensive match ammo) will put rounds into a 600 meter torso sized target all day long if you do your part. It's not hard, so don't get hung up on a heavy barrel and freefloat this or that.

As far as the kind of shit to hang off of it, keep it simple. You want a red dot/reflex type sight with no magnification. I am partial to Trijicon products because they don't use batteries (they run on daylight or tritium at night). The RX30 or ReflexII sights are wonderful and I highly recommend them. Their magnified ACOGs are great but don't offer a huge speed or accuracy advantage (remember, we are talking about shooting people here and doing it under stress) until you get past 200 meters-they cost a lot more too. Lastly you want a flashlight on the gun-if you can't identify a target, you can't shoot at it. Avoid things like lasers (unless you shoot with IR lasers using NVG's to see them), bipods and other "tactical" crap you don't need. They are a distraction a lot of the time. Get a good 3 point sling and call it a day.


Visit AR15.com and join. It's free and you'll learn a huge amount of information in a short time.


Good luck,

Dave

Last edited by DeviousDave; 11-19-2010 at 04:13 AM.
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 04:09 AM
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Re: Need some help from ar15 people.

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Originally Posted by sbombard15 View Post
Thanks for the research guys. I have been doing A LOT of research and really want to build my own. I really enjoyed converting my saiga ak so I think I will really enjoy this. What have you guys heard about spike lowers btw?


And gunnut, Im just curious as to why you think colt dosnt trust people. I have never heard that before.


Thanks.
Spikes lowers don't have a bad reputation, but the owner sure does. He jacked up prices to "RAPE ME!!" levels right after Obama was elected figuring that everyone else would too and got called out on it.
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