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Rings into cylinder help

3K views 38 replies 10 participants last post by  GixxerRacer371 
#1 ·
Ok, I need a hint from you guys:
I am ready to put back my cylinders over my new rings & pistons:
DO I really need that special strap? (or 2 of them actually...) to slip my pistons and rings into the cylinders?
Anybody has a trick for that? or do I need those?

Thanx for your help guys!!! I hope i can get them in tonight, but at this point I am skeptical...
Fred
 
#4 ·
I got a ring compressor for autos I used on a Supra I rebuilt. Worked good and I don't believe it was expensive. It's like a sheet of metal rolled into a tube with a screw that tightens the tube to compress the ring on the piston. Slid the piston down the cylinder and then attached to conrod from the bottom I think. It's been a couple years.
 
#6 ·
You can use your fingers due to bevel built into bottom of cylinder. Ring compressor not necessary. I personally use 2 flatblade screwdrivers to push gap together. Don't slip though because you could scratch piston and/or ring.
 
#7 ·
the help of 1 or 2 others is nice. i prefer to use the by hand method that way you will not scar the ring or piston. it does take some work and probably a few tries. i have also used screw type hose clamps when being short handed. as the earlier post says it is very important to check ring end gap and make sure the gaps are lined up correctly. it is very difficult for one person to hold and align the cylinders while trying to get 2 sets of piston rings started. 1 on each piston and 1 running the cylinders make it alot easier. take your time and go easy as not to damage anything. it will take a while to get everyone working together. it's really not that bad just kinda tricky the first few times.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for your help guys, I will probably get a few hose clamps, and the rings are all new, so no gap mesurment necessary, as for the alignments of each gap at 120 degrees with the top ring facing the exhast, it has been meticulously done!!!
I tried to do it by hand yesterday, but being only one, I did not get to work, because the pistons, were actually binding like you say Rocket, its probably the trickyest part...
Thanks again guys!
Fred
 
#13 ·
fredybender said:
Here is my new home made ring compressor kit: Cut up beer can, and hose clamps: This was a good idea, from one of the Oil cooled guys!
Fred

View attachment 6370
now that is alabama engineering at its best!..... works greate!.. cheap..... and holy cow wow..... no specal trip to some off the wall store!....

+10points!..
 
#14 ·
I was going to say I have used a light gauge peice of sheetmetal,simple math to calculate the circumferance and cut a rectangular peice and used worm drive clamps to compress the rings,soda can will work too.

When I was 16 I put a 1015 kit in my 74 Z-1 and didn't know about staggering the rings..she smoked like a 2 stroke..oh well young and stupid.

Nice to see you're progressing Fred
 
#16 ·
Ok , you want me to check gaps: what would that change sinse they are new?
If they are out of specs new, what am I suppose to do?
There are two gaps to be checked:
the ring free end gap & the end gap in cylinder...
I have no clue on what & why to check them out of the package, please enlighten me guys!
 
#17 ·
See 3-32 3-33 in the service manual. It goes over checking the end gaps...... basically when I installed the 907 piston kit I had to file the end of the ring down to get it within spec. Otherwise I believe that if the gap were to small the heat would expand the ring forcing the ends to touch and eventually it would break. Oh and I just worked with the installed gap....
 
#18 ·
Thanx 317, but as I can see it just says ¨service limit¨ so if it even had 0.0001¨ clearance ( not that I could measure that!), it would be ok, as per the manual... so whats the minimum you recommend, since its only that spec that I can play with: I can take off material, but I would have a hard time putting some back on the end of the rings...lol...
Fred
 
#20 ·
see im gonna be posting here one day.. i have 1146 pistons/rings coming..
staggering the rings eh.. wouldn't have thought of that but does make sense. So with your beer can stuff. so theres room enough in the piston to slide that in, if you undo clamp you just what pull the can out?

Looking at stock piston/rings i have laying around I noticed the oil thingie
its like a zigzag waffle looking ring with 3 pieces upper ring, waffle,lower ring ( as one unit). Anyway they dont line up or the edges of the 2 waffle bits are on top of eachother, real loose etc..
( im not using these btw just looking at them for refrence.)
And when you check the clearence on the rings per freds post, Im guessing you do this with them compressed?
 
#21 ·
Mike, if you check in the manual, all ring gaps should be 120 degres from ech other;
As for the oilscraper ring , it is made of 3 pieces; two rings, that are staggared, and a wafer style spacer...
Yes and as per 317, you only really have to work with the compressed gap...
My concern was that there are no remedies if I use stock piston & new rings, and you are out of specs on the gap, even with new rings!
Fred
 
#22 ·
i posted a lengthy message but 5 seconds before i hit send i lost power lol..
to sum it up, yea i can see needing to check new rings on pistons as you kinda need to spread them to get them on. But i would think, transfering existing pistons with rings on them already ( i.e. used set/ transfering from one block to another etc) would be within tolerances..
 
#23 · (Edited)
you are assuming that the bore from one block to another is the same. the service limit for piston to wall clearance is .12mm or.0047 inches. i assure a used block with 20,000 miles is out of clearance or the piston bore is becoming egg shaped due to the piston wearing the front and back of cylinder. if you are installing new rings on a used piston and cylinder and the bore has started to wear chances are the ring end gap which has a service limit of .18mm or .007in is going to be too great. that is if you believe out of the box they are correct. cylinder is larger, ring end gap will be greater. if you use a used cylinder and the bores have been checked and determined to be round and within tolerance, when you hone them to break the glaze and get the new rings to seat, material will be removed increasing the bore diameter. again increasing the ring end gap.
if we assume the ring gap is smaller when they come new to accomidate a little wear to the cylinder it still needs to be checked to make sure it is within limit. if it is smaller when it comes new and you put it in a cylinder that is at the small limit (ie. minimum bore diameter) the ring end gap will be too small heat will make it expand closing the ring end gap further scoring the cylinder or causing the ring to break. both of which are not good.
ring end gap is a major thing.
i believe we are advocating checking it to prevent throwing good money after bad.
i would never go through the trouble of removing a cylinder changing anything but a leaking gasket and not rechecking the rings. i would view not checking ring end gap a close brother to changing the oil filter and pouring the used oil back in.
i assure you if you take 1 ring and check the end gap, same ring in all 4 cylinders you will find they all are slightly different. as well as checking all 4 rings in 1 cylinder. i cannot recall rebuilding a top end and not having to file at least one ring to get it within tolerance. you can shuffle the rings from cylinder to cylinder to see which one fits best where. if you send a top end to a known shop to be bored for oversize pistons they will measure the piston and then bore the cylinder according to measured piston diameter and they will tell you what piston goes in which hole. they will also include ring fitting in the overall price or have a small itemized charge for doing that.
manufacturing tolerances are such that this is an important thing.
the surest way to make a smoke bomb is to use new rings in a well used cylinder.
again just my $.02
 
#25 ·
Oh and this was tickling me:
If the cylinder bore for stock size pistons service limit is 70.075mm,
and I do not exceed that service limit, it should be physically impossible to put new rings and have a gap exceeding the maximum gap ? No?
If that is the case, that means that Suzuki is producing rings that have too small of a circumferance to meet their max stock bore size spec...
???
Fred
 
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