My 6/11 Project - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com

 3Likes
  • 1 Post By 94gixxerod
  • 1 Post By DJaye.
  • 1 Post By oldgixxer
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 1993 GSXR600W
Posts: 17
My 6/11 Project

What's up everybody, new here. I suppose I'll give you a long boring background story before I get started.

For a few years now my primary streetbike has been a 1993 GSXR600W. Over the said past few years, I have (foolishly) spent massive amounts of money to make this thing ridiculously nice. While it may be the slowest, heaviest, goofiest 600 ever built, it's been extremely good to me through thick and thin. I love it, and I'd trust it to go to California and back. And I personally can out-ride all these dumbass rich kids around here riding daddy's brand new 600, so it works out.

However, I started riding with a few new groups of people this season and ALL these dudes have literbikes; GSXR1K's, S1000RR's, RSV4's, Panigale's, you get the idea. Now I could care less about racing people, but I AM trying to get to the destination on the same calendar month as these guys, ya feel me?

So, I started looking around for a new bike. I'm a mechanic at a dealership and I play with literbikes all day- awesome, but I don't want to let myself get one- I'm just not responsible enough, honestly. SO, I look around like crazy for the end-all solution: the GSXR750, best real-world streetbike ever etc... Even contemplated financing a new one. But after some thought, I don't need any more debt and used ones, being the best streetbike ever, are unfortunately priced accordingly.

While scouring Craigslist this past Wednesday with no 750 luck whatsoever, I came across a 1994 GSXR1100W. 6000miles, clean title, needs headgasket, 95% complete. All for the low, low price of $500. 12 hours later, it's on my trailer. 3 hours later it's fully stripped down. And I'm currently in the process of listing a bunch of 1100 parts on eBay to help fund this new project (someone buy them lol).

SO HERE I AM. You all know what's going to happen next. Now I've done as much reading on this swap as humanly possible, and I have a pretty clear idea of what's ahead of me. But there's a few small things I could really use some help on. (Hopefully I haven't put you guys to sleep so far).

1: The clutch. I don't want anything to do with a hydro clutch. And plus, I JUST bought a new perch, cable, and fancy ASV lever like 1000 miles ago. I haven't cracked either motor open yet, but from what I understand the 600 has a coil spring setup, and the 1100 uses a diaphragm spring like a Harley. I know I definitely want a right-side clutch actuator like the 600, even though its 10x easier to use a Katana left side setup (if you haven't figured it out by now, I like doing things the hard way). I had a Kat in the past and was NOT impressed with the clutch feel or ease of disassembly in the whole countershaft area. So, from what I understand, in order to use my 600 cover I need to get a 19mm? (can someone confirm) spacer made? That's no big deal, my CNC guy can whip one up for a 6 pack of Corona's. But what else do I need to make this happen? Are there things I'll need to get that don't come from either motor? I saw that sticky here but I was a little confused...

2: The header. About 1000 miles ago, I FINALLY found a super-rare chrome Yoshimura header for my 600 (fits 750's as well). It's beautiful, and I paid accordingly. If I use my 600 oil pan and pickup will this clear? I have seen all kinds of assorted information on this topic and now once again I'm confused...

3: The motor. This 1100w engine needs a headgasket, so I'll be going into this thing, obviously. Only has 6000 miles, so unless something really bad happened in it's short run, I'm sure the cylinders and pistons/rings are in fair condition. I PROBABLY could just do a light hone, deck head and cylinder block, and be on my way. BUT, let's assume the worst. Of course, until the motor is apart we're just talking hypothetically here, but the oil was a little milkshakey. Would I be considered a dickhead for not replacing the plain bearings on the big ends of the rods? In other words, do they typically hold up to some water or are they easy to wipe out? (I'm coming from the automotive engine world so bear with me, lol). And also, IF the bores/pistons look crappy, what are your suggestions for a minor big bore setup. I do not want to sleeve. For my type of riding, I'm thinking I would like to go with as much compression as safely possible with 93 octane?. Bear in mind, I'm not going to have time to port the head, and sadly I don't have money for FCR's or flatslides so jetted 40mm CV's with pod filters is the best I can do. I MIGHT invest in a Dyna 2000 Ignition setup if it's worth it. And lastly, any tips for cam timing? I thought I remember reading something about advancing one of the cams by a tooth to aid with low end? Not sure...

4: The front calipers. Boy, those 6 pots on that 1100 are NICE. I looked it up and I see that both bikes specify the same front rotor part number. And I haven't bolted them up yet but the bolt spacing on the fork lug appears to be the same. Before I order the necessary AN fittings (line comes out at different angle from the 4 pots) and EBC pads, any reason why these wouldn't work? I'm already running a Nissin radial master from a newer GSXR that has a 2mm larger bore than the original master. Seems to work VERY well with the 4 pots and I think it will agree with the additional piston area of the 6 pots...

Alright, that was alot. Sorry for blasting you guys with a million questions right off the bat but I really want to have this thing done while there's plenty of riding season left. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

-Austin

Last edited by DJaye.; 06-18-2016 at 09:30 PM. Reason: More questions.
DJaye. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 12:02 AM
TJS
Lifetime Premium
 
TJS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Midlothian, VA
Motorcycle: 1995 GSXR 750, Modified 1992 GSF Bandit 400, want a "Kitchen Pass" for a KLX 140 Supermoto
Posts: 2,010
Re: My 6/11 Project

You need Anthonyrr to join in here. He has done this build. He stuffed an 1100 in a 600. Get your RedR and you can post things for sale in buy in the classifieds.
TJS is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 05:36 AM
Guest
 
oldgixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the garage, smoking one of Anthony D's cigars...
Motorcycle: None, gave them all to Anthony D...
Posts: 24,541
Re: My 6/11 Project

I had a 6/11 with a 1298cc billet SBM block and 4mm Falicon stroker crank. Such a fun bike
I don't recall all the details on the 1100 swap,it's been 20yrs since I did that swap and once I hot 40,my memory faded quickly lol.
But,while the engine is apart I'd have a look at the bearings and replace them if you have the know-how. They are cheap enough to warrant replacement. A cleaned up head with 1117cc or 1146cc pistons will make nice power,roughly 150rwhp. Not nearly enough to hang with the literbikes you mentioned above but a nice bump over stock rwhp.

BTW,I think I may have seen that 1100W on C/L. Bastard lol!!!

Lastly,post some pics of your 600. They had some of my all-time favorite paint schemes

Last edited by oldgixxer; 06-19-2016 at 05:56 AM.
oldgixxer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 1993 GSXR600W
Posts: 17
Hey thanks for the fast replies. I'll have pics up asap!! I guess after all this work I'd be a fool not to do those plain bearings... Is Suzuki like Honda with the "a,b,c,d" journals and rods that you cross reference to different color bearings??

And one other thing I could use a little clarification with- in all these swap threads I keep hearing that my 93 600 frame doesnt have some upper motor mount that the 11's do. But after tearing down this 94 1100W I swear it doesn't have a single mount my 600 doesn't have??? In fact, there's nothing coming off the head besides a few hangers for the fairings. Am I missing something here?

Thanks

-Austin
DJaye. is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 10:36 AM
Guest
 
oldgixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the garage, smoking one of Anthony D's cigars...
Motorcycle: None, gave them all to Anthony D...
Posts: 24,541
Re: My 6/11 Project

Yes for the bearings. I can't answer about the motor mounts as it's been so long since I did it. I'm sure one of these guys can answer though
oldgixxer is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 11:27 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
94gixxerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Clearville, PA
Motorcycle: 1994 GSXR 1100WR
Posts: 815
Re: My 6/11 Project

DJay,
The 93/94 1100's do not have upper motormounts. The 95/98 1100's do. As to your conversion from the 1100 hydro clutch, I believe I have a cad drawing of that spacer on an old computer somewhere, if your interested. Also, come to think of it, many of the parts needed to make the conversion.
Tim
TJS likes this.
94gixxerod is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 1993 GSXR600W
Posts: 17
Alright that's perfect then so it's even more drop-in than most 1100 swaps... And okay any info you have on that right hand cable clutch would be greatly appreciated!! All I really know is I need some type of spacer and I have to block off the hole by the countershaft. Other than that I'm clueless
DJaye. is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-25-2016, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 1993 GSXR600W
Posts: 17
Re: My 6/11 Project

Alright, just a small update to the project:

Because my 1100 parts are selling quite well, I decided to just go the hydro route. The way I see it, it's how Suzuki designed it so it can't be that bad. I ordered a 2008 SV1000 clutch master off eBay (same bore as the original square reservoir POS), and I have plenty of -3AN line and fittings here at the house. Hopefully it works out worst case if it sucks I'll go the cable route in the off-season.

And in the interest of time, for now I'm just going to go stock/simple/cheap on the motor. All OEM gaskets and seals, inspect the bearings, deck the head and block, get a light hone. Boom done call it a day.

The only thing that really concerns me right now is can I use my 600W oil pan and pickup on this 1100 motor, and will that be the magic ticket to allow me to use my very rare and nice Yoshimura 600/750 header???

Thanks in advance!!
DJaye. is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-28-2016, 06:02 PM
Track Day Winner
 
Jedz123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Central Vermont, USA
Motorcycle: 93 Suzuki GSX-R 750
Posts: 64
Garage
Re: My 6/11 Project

I've done my research, ( I bought my 93 750W with full intention of a 7/11 down the road). The oil pan must match the exhaust your using... I'm unsure if the 600 and 1100 oil pans are compatible, I do know the 750 and 1100 oil pans can swap... Maybe keep your eye's peeled for a 750 pan.

The other thing to address is the oil heat exchanger on the small blocks vs the oil cooler on the 1100... You can run the exchanger on the 1100 HOWEVER I would strongly look to use the 1100 oil cooler on your swap.

Also is the 1100 exhuast complete and stock???

Good luck!

1993 Suzuki GSX-R 750
1981 Suzuki GS650GL
2008 Kawasaki ZG1400A
2013 Inifinti G37S (the cage)

Last edited by Anthony D; 06-28-2016 at 06:49 PM.
Jedz123 is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-28-2016, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 1993 GSXR600W
Posts: 17
Re: My 6/11 Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedz123 View Post
I've done my research, ( I bought my 93 750W with full intention of a 7/11 down the road). The oil pan must match the exhaust your using... I'm unsure if the 600 and 1100 oil pans are compatible, I do know the 750 and 1100 oil pans can swap... Maybe keep your eye's peeled for a 750 pan.

The other thing to address is the oil heat exchanger on the small blocks vs the oil cooler on the 1100... You can run the exchanger on the 1100 HOWEVER I would strongly look to use the 1100 oil cooler on your swap.

Also is the 1100 exhuast complete and stock???

Good luck!
Man, I really hope so! I did see that the oil pan gasket numbers are the same for my 600 and the 1100, so that's a little encouraging. And as far as the cooler goes I'm going to try to run the stock 1100 one, not a fan of the oil-water coolers that go under the oil filter. Worst case if I cant get the stock piece to fit nicely I may end up getting the necessary fittings to convert the hoses to -6AN line and I'll run a nice aftermarket fluid cooler.

And the exhaust that came on that 1100 was a GARBAGE ass V&H full system all banged up and rusted. Gave the can to my buddy so he can rig it up on his DR350 (ghetto, I know, but it's about the right dimensions) and tossed the header. The way it looked to me you couldn't even get the oil filter out without completely removing the header, is that right!?
DJaye. is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-28-2016, 09:49 PM
Track Day Winner
 
Jedz123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Central Vermont, USA
Motorcycle: 93 Suzuki GSX-R 750
Posts: 64
Garage
Re: My 6/11 Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJaye. View Post
Man, I really hope so! I did see that the oil pan gasket numbers are the same for my 600 and the 1100, so that's a little encouraging. And as far as the cooler goes I'm going to try to run the stock 1100 one, not a fan of the oil-water coolers that go under the oil filter. Worst case if I cant get the stock piece to fit nicely I may end up getting the necessary fittings to convert the hoses to -6AN line and I'll run a nice aftermarket fluid cooler.

And the exhaust that came on that 1100 was a GARBAGE ass V&H full system all banged up and rusted. Gave the can to my buddy so he can rig it up on his DR350 (ghetto, I know, but it's about the right dimensions) and tossed the header. The way it looked to me you couldn't even get the oil filter out without completely removing the header, is that right!?
I would say if the gasket number is the same your in business!!! I'll likely be walking down the 1100 swap road over the winter... I'm also considering a 01+ GSXR 750 swap... Might require allot more physical and mental muscle but man would that be cool... We will see where my mind (and check book) are at by season end when the Gixxer goes to bed in my shop.

The V&H system is wretched and wish I could toss mine. I'm planning to strip the plastics down for a complete detail clean, carb and ignition check and oil change... I'll have too look around for a stock system on my own accord...

Good luck on your swap! Please take pics and note the challenges!

Best

-Jedz

1993 Suzuki GSX-R 750
1981 Suzuki GS650GL
2008 Kawasaki ZG1400A
2013 Inifinti G37S (the cage)
Jedz123 is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-01-2016, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 1993 GSXR600W
Posts: 17
Re: My 6/11 Project

ALRIGHT GUYS SORRY FOR MY HIATUS, THIS PROJECT HAS NOT DIED I PROMISE YOU!

I just ran into some issues along the way, got angry, stepped away for a bit and then got distracted with other things like this stupid ass GS1150 project I did for a friend, and trying to ride my 600 to the limit as it is (I wanna get my knee dragging game up). Here's a few poor quality pics of the bike as it is, as well as that 1150 I built.









So basically, the issues I speak of mainly pertain to just how bad the bottom end was in this bike. The clutch plates literally fell apart in my hands (little squares of friction material all over the place, how does that even happen?), the oil pump was TIGHT (disassembled and found many chunks of bearing material in there), and the bearings were SHOT. Thankfully all the cam and crank journals appear to be fine, and the machine shop did a beautiful job with my head and cylinder block. After looking into prices for the oil pump, journals, clutch, and other various things I found, I wasnt too too shocked, but I had to put the project on the back burner for a few.



SO, fast forward to like a week ago. Things start to get interesting. I part out bikes as a little side hustle, and I came across a good one. 1993 GSXR750W, healthy engine but got hit in the rear and has been sitting for a while. 200 bucks! Needless to say I scooped it up as soon as I had the chance. I was definitely a little sour when I discovered that the head hit the ground HARD somehow, it's missing quite a few fins on the left side right where it's visible, and one of the oil gallery plugs was completely sheared off.

But lucky me, I just so happen to have a complete 1100W motor at home with a fresh topend and a very sickly bottom end. I think everyone here already knows what I'm going to try to make happen, but I'll say it anyways- 1100cc/1100-headed/750 6speed trans/RH cable operated clutch/slingshot carbed GSXR600W anyone??? Hmmm....

Now of course, this plot twist raises quite a few new questions:

Primary drive- will the 1100 crank work with the 750 clutch basket?

Cams- Now that I have OEM cams in many flavors, is there any advantage to using any of the 750 sticks? And how should they be degreed?

Carbs- I actually have not yet 100% determined if they are the slingshots with the powerjet circuits and what not (havent torn down the 750 yet), but what carbs should I use? Honestly, I havent even measured the ones that came with that 1100 but externally they do look bigger than my 600 carbs which I am quite familiar with

My nice Yosh 600/750 header- Still havent officially heard whether or not it's going to work with the 1100 topend. I just found out the other day that the donut gaskets are considerably different between the 750 and 1100 heads so I'm a little scared. Oil pan will be of the 750 flavor. Also, any tips on drilling and tapping the pan for oil cooler lines? And should I use the OE piece or get a fancy AN line equipped piece from Summit Racing?

Thanks in advance and I will update along the way!

OH, check out the stand I made for these motors, spent way too much time on it but now that I have a bunch of extra crap I'm glad I made it!







It's designed to also work upside down (at a slight angle) for work while the cases are split. Lastly, HOW HEAVY ARE THESE MOTORS!? I literally broke three of the steps going down into my shop when I brought the 1100 motor in on a handtruck LOL.
TJS likes this.

Last edited by DJaye.; 10-01-2016 at 07:47 PM.
DJaye. is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-01-2016, 08:20 PM
TJS
Lifetime Premium
 
TJS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Midlothian, VA
Motorcycle: 1995 GSXR 750, Modified 1992 GSF Bandit 400, want a "Kitchen Pass" for a KLX 140 Supermoto
Posts: 2,010
Re: My 6/11 Project

Please post the measurements and plans to make our own!...or sell them, but I bet shipping that kind of weight would kill us!
TJS is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 10-02-2016, 07:52 AM
Guest
 
oldgixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the garage, smoking one of Anthony D's cigars...
Motorcycle: None, gave them all to Anthony D...
Posts: 24,541
Re: My 6/11 Project

That 1150E wirh the modern front end is bad ass. I'm planning on doing a front end swap and rear end swap on my GS1100E hopefully before spring. I love that bike.
TJS likes this.
oldgixxer is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 1993 GSXR600W
Posts: 17
Re: My 6/11 Project

I know it's hard to believe, but we have another update in my painfully slow and boring 6/11 build (at this point, I'm probably at risk to be scolded for resurrecting a dead thread). My side hustle of parting out crashed bikes has become a full-time licensed business, so I barely even have time to ride right now, let alone build engines.

First off, I figured out the cam dilemma- Megacycle has a very nice OE cam spec database and the 1100W sticks win hands down (not interested in aftermarket cams at this point). I have also determined that the 750W carbs are just regular 38mm BST's and NOT slingshots (they are quite nice + clean tho). And I have slowly but surely been stockpiling parts as I come across them. And just the other week, I finally cracked open that 93 750W motor that's been sitting in my storage unit for nearly a year now.

What I found inside was shocking- the pistons literally still have break-in coating on them, and the camshafts still have the antirust spray on the base circles. Bores/journals are gorgeous. This thing is MINT inside. Honestly, I probably should've just thrown it in my bike with the busted fins and been happy with the extra 150cc's (I had the busted oil gallery plug fixed before I even opened the valve cover).

SO, now that I know that the 750W motor had like 0 miles on it, I'm trying to use the whole bottom end (cases, trans, clutch, obviously not crank) because I really don't trust anything out of the bottom of that 1100 motor, lol. I know all watercooled cases are more/less the same, but will I need to have the top half machined to accept the bigger 1100W sleeves? And then the one other thing that I've been DYING to find out (I may have asked this before, forgive me)- Will the 1100W crank's primary drive gear get along with the 750W's clutch basket? I am very scared to find this one out because if it doesn't I may be totally beat.

Lastly, I got me some SLINGSHOTS!!! Picked up a 91 GSXR750 slabside to part out and snagged them as soon as I realized what they were. They are only 38's but I am ok with that, I think for street use I'll be happy with them. Thing is- they're kinda rough. YES, the pilot screws and pilot jets come out happily, but it looks like whoever attempted to rebuild them in the past was a little light in the head. They are very crusty inside and weren't thoroughly cleaned, stripped/missing screws everywhere including throttle blade screws, etc. Not the end of the world but I already got my Litetek Viton rebuild kits and K&L inlet needles (no jet kit yet) for the standard BST 38's, although I'd bet a lot of it's the same. The golden question is- are 38mm slingshots that much better than regular BST38's? Specifically for what I'm trying to do here? If so, I'll sell the regular BST's and do a real in-depth rebuild of these things- throttle plates and all. I'll also convert them to cable choke instead of that lawnmower pull knob. I'll have to see if Factory Pro (preferred) or Dynojet makes any kits for these carbs on an 1100W, so I at least have a starting point.

PS: TJS- I'll get you those measurements as soon as I take the 1100 motor off the stand, I was kinda winging it when I built it.

Last edited by DJaye.; 08-01-2017 at 05:23 PM.
DJaye. is offline  
post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-02-2017, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 1993 GSXR600W
Posts: 17
EDIT: I just read over in the oilcooled forum that in order to run an 1100 crank in 6spd 750 cases you must line bore the mains bigger? Anyone know if this applies to watercoolers also?
DJaye. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome