Rocker arm head question - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Rocker arm head question

So i contacted Pat over at Ape's to see what can be done with my 1127 shim style head in terms of porting, he said its not worth the trouble, that i should find a rocker arm style head for good results, is the 1990 1100 head the one im looking for ? Bandit ? What head can i use for best results for porting and gaining HPs ?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 07:12 PM
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Re: Rocker arm head question

https://www.gixxer.com/forums/15-oil...nce-heads.html
This thread and the others mentioned in it, should answer your questions.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks i have read that thread but i find it confusing, some people port the 1127 shim head and some go finding another head, when i contacted APE Pat said porting the 1127 shim head wouldnt result in any significant gains, but people here in the forums claim otherwise. I just need a solid advice from a fellow biker not some company, i guess its because APE doesnt sell the cams for the shim head... ?
What would you advise me to do regarding the head..looking for max HPs with 1216 12:1 pistons, racing cams 30.26 valves. What head would pair nicely with that setup and is it true my head wont gain squat with porting ? I find it a bit odd

Thanks for your input mate

El bandido
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 08:30 PM
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Re: Rocker arm head question

https://www.saeoutlawperformance.com/

You'll get different opinions from different people...there's lots of variables and different experiences.
I do believe that APE offers solid advice and service. I think they are just suggesting that there are better, more cost effective options.
What's your budget? What are your realistic goals?
Porting, guides, bigger valves, springs, retainers, machine work for oversize seats etc. add up quickly.

You can easily drop 10 grand into an older head, once you get into epoxy work, raising the floors and moving the ports.

You might try giving SAE a call as well. They have lots of Oil Cooled experience...what works well with a current GSXR, Busa etc, doesn't all apply with our cylinder heads, you really need to find someone that worked with them back in the day...much of this knowledge is lost,

Carolina Cycle and Star Racing are other shops with lots of experience on the older stuff.

Have you already purchased the cams? Who is machining your head for the bigger valves? Are you building the engine yourself?

The real benefit of the DOT head is the floor height of the ports, they provide a more direct path. I think that would be your best bang for the buck.
However, if you've already spent money on parts for your existing head, then you're on that path and you can optimize what you already have.

Remember, it's not just a matter of throwing parts at them...it's a recipe, everything must compliment each other.

Make some more calls, research it further. It's easy to get carried away. You might just be happy enough with the 1216 kit, cams, RS40's and a simple clean up of your ports to remove the casting flaws etc.

-Scott
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 03:51 AM Thread Starter
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I still did not purchase any parts tho i contemplated the APE kit they sell (1216 pistons ,cams,springs,adjustable cam sprockets) but when i asked them about it they said they do not have any cams for my head so im guessing that kit is for the 89-90 cz they have it on their site as only for 1127. I also contacted SAE yesterday after i read the post you gave me the link to (thanks btw). Im speaking with Michael Tona to see what we can do, he is suggesting epoxy work and stuff i really dont want to get into.
Heres what i want: 1216 12:1 pistons, head porting, valve seat angle cutting oversinze 2mm for 30.26 valves, springs, and CAMS, ill be running 38 flatslides on it.
Now i know that combo cant fo wrong unless porting is poorly made.
The only problem i have is that if Pat is correct and my shim style head wont grant any benefits and there are no cams for that head,,, ill need to see completely other combos ex the dot head will.need completely different cams and valves (i dont even know if i can go oversize on the valves) plus i dont even know what dot head works best for this bike.. if the 89-90 head is the head to buy then thats whats gonna go down.
Budget wise i know the price of all these parts and i know porting alone is the biggest issue for me, especially since im going to be shipping my head to the US from Lebanon. Just need to find the best thing to do and then do it.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:58 PM
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Re: Rocker arm head question

https://www.gixxer.com/forums/15-oil...-head-fix.html
This was interesting.

I had a look at Web Cam's site...again, nothing listed for your application, only '90 and earlier 1100's.

Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot of aftermarket support for your model. Even less so, now that it's no longer current.

I'd put a better head on it, and go from there. It sure sucks, when your head spits a shim.

There have been recent discussions here about DOT heads.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 07:36 PM
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Re: Rocker arm head question

https://www.gixxer.com/forums/15-oil...nce-heads.html

BLITZR2 has DOT heads for sale in the Classifieds, as you've seen. He doesn't post much anymore, but he's a good shit. He's got your RS38's as well. That would really kick start your project.

You should fill in your location, it truly is a global community of Oiler enthusiasts. I'm presently working north of the Arctic Circle.

Good luck!
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the help Beairsto, you reckon with a DOT head i wont need porting anymore since its got a more agressive flow angle ? And what DOT head should i get if thats the case, i know you always try to help and send me links and stuff, also are there any aftermarket cams for DOT heads ?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 01:06 AM
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Re: Rocker arm head question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beairsto Racing View Post
https://www.gixxer.com/forums/15-oil...nce-heads.html

BLITZR2 has DOT heads for sale in the Classifieds, as you've seen. He doesn't post much anymore, but he's a good shit. He's got your RS38's as well. That would really kick start your project.

You should fill in your location, it truly is a global community of Oiler enthusiasts. I'm presently working north of the Arctic Circle.

Good luck!
Beairsto - I will take the compliment and likewise....

So yeah, HWB, I defer to the wise men here (like Beairsto)who actually build shit themselves in all matters, but - the DOT heads have a rep as a solid platform for a build head above pretty much everything else for the reasons mentioned. There's plenty of parts for them, the questions you need to answer are:

1- How much did you $ay your name wa$?
2- Are you able to summon the self control... "Well, if If I do cams... I may as well get titanium retainers and KBW springs, and sodium filled valves, and deck it, and....)

The only issue I've heard is that there's so little meat between the valve seats and plug hole that it's a bit dicey if you go with oversized valves.

I went with an APE ported / built, with OEM sized valves, and whatever cams (I cant remember) that didn't push the reliability too much for road riding. I currently have RS 38's on it but am planning on diving in for some 40's soon as I went with 12:1 1216 kit as well and want to only do one round on the dyno for tuning.

Like many here, I have about $15K in a $4k bike, but, I'm single, old, and gonna die soon, and my kids hate me. Good luck
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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I am willing to inve$t in the engine right now and some carbs which obviously make a big part of the upgrade, i already have lined up all the things that follow like discs, pads, a motogadget m unit blue to get rid of the harness, and maybe some nice set of wheels, im also going wednesday to check a L6 and if its anything like in the pics it will be joining older brother. I really want to make the right choice of head cz it seems thats the center of the whole building project, i want to milk the HP from that engine, every single little pony i can get with the 1216cc pistons, i see the dot head as not fitting the bill because i cant go oversize on the valves but maybe it doesnt matter and ends up making more HP because of the more aggressive steeper ports ? Or what ? Hahaha fakkin decisions decisions 🙂

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-05-2019, 05:42 PM
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Re: Rocker arm head question

DOT head also raises the carbs and you may have clearance issues, you'll need pod filters etc.
Talk to your engine builder, or APE, SAE etc and see what they recommend.
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