Oil dilemmas - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Motorcycle: K3 GSX-R1000
Posts: 8
Oil dilemmas

I recently got this second (actually 3rd) hand 2003 R1000 with a tad over 10000 miles on it. Beautiful machine, I love it.

It has synthetic oil in it.

I have never used syn oil before so I am a bit in the dark with a few questions.

1) Mechanics at the Suzuki dealer say that if I switch the oil to the conventional type this will create problems with the clutch to 'slip' (not sure what they mean by that).

2) With conventional oil, I used to drain and refill when came winter storage time, then do this again at spring time but that time I would replace the filter as well. If I stick with syn, do I do the same or can I change the oil+filter at storage time OR when I take it out of storage. Obviously I would hate trashing a full load of syn that has not been used except for 'being there'.

3) If I stick with syn, I will probably use Mobil 1 10W30 meant for car engines. I would prefer 10W40, but it does not seem to make in this category and I can't find the MX4T category around here (and honestly I do not beleive in the added value of a 'motorcycle oil'). I don't live in Texas, average temperatures are below 30C, with a few exceptions, times when I avoid riding as I find my gear and helmet unbearable.

Pennies for your thoughts.
GearedGiXXer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 01:01 PM
Wag
Constantly in trouble now
 
Wag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Motorcycle: '06 Gixxer 1000, Hayabusa
Posts: 16,403
Re: Oil dilemmas

Send your pennies via paypal, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearedGiXXer View Post
I recently got this second (actually 3rd) hand 2003 R1000 with a tad over 10000 miles on it. Beautiful machine, I love it.
Congrats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearedGiXXer View Post
It has synthetic oil in it.

I have never used syn oil before so I am a bit in the dark with a few questions.

1) Mechanics at the Suzuki dealer say that if I switch the oil to the conventional type this will create problems with the clutch to 'slip' (not sure what they mean by that).
Find a new dealer right away. Jeez, these guys never cease to amaze me. You can switch to conventional oil any time with no real issues. In fact, you can buy blended oils every day of the week. It will NOT cause you problems. However, it WILL change the way the bike shifts. I won't use synthetic oil because the cost is just not worth it.

Having said all of that, I wouldn't just indiscriminately blend my own synthetic/conventional oil. There's a science to doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearedGiXXer View Post
2) With conventional oil, I used to drain and refill when came winter storage time, then do this again at spring time but that time I would replace the filter as well. If I stick with syn, do I do the same or can I change the oil+filter at storage time OR when I take it out of storage. Obviously I would hate trashing a full load of syn that has not been used except for 'being there'.
Put it into storage with the conventional oil. You're not going to cause yourself any problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearedGiXXer View Post
3) If I stick with syn, I will probably use Mobil 1 10W30 meant for car engines. I would prefer 10W40, but it does not seem to make in this category and I can't find the MX4T category around here (and honestly I do not beleive in the added value of a 'motorcycle oil'). I don't live in Texas, average temperatures are below 30C, with a few exceptions, times when I avoid riding as I find my gear and helmet unbearable.

Pennies for your thoughts.
I see it on motorcycle boards all the time and I struggle to edumacate people of the basic fact: There is no such thing as "motorcycle" oil. If you buy "motorcycle" oil, you just got ripped off for $5 to $10 per quart. One of the bigger scams in our sport. I saw a gallon bottle at the dealership the other day for $40. I buy it at the auto parts store at $11 for a five-gallon jug. Can I get a "Hallelujah?" Amen, brother! (No, I'm not religious! )

There are, however, differing grades and blends of oil. If you use what's recommended in the owner's manual, you will NOT go wrong. Change interval is 3,000 miles, regardless. Also, I don't think I've ever seen a 10W40 synthetic. The 10W30 is fine for motorcycles.

Make sure you don't use oil with friction modifiers or oil labeled with language like, "enhances fuel economy," or such shit. That stuff WILL interfere with your clutch operation.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

--Wag--

"Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein
Wag is offline  
post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Motorcycle: K3 GSX-R1000
Posts: 8
Re: Oil dilemmas

Thanks Wag, I like what you say and see eye to eye with you.
I just got back from shopping but I had not read your reply to my post prior to leaving, I would probably have had (again) serious second thoughts about using syn had I read it.
I found at Walmart's Mobil1 MX4T which is synthetic 10W40 'engineered for motorcycle ...' right ...
It's expensive and I don't think it is worth what is costs, $ 15 a litre, damn.
But that's what's going in this time. I'll store the bike with it in it in a bit less than 3 months from now. I'll make sure to make it idle about once a month all throughout the time it is stored. Since this oil is good for 1 year/at least 10000 kms, I wont' replace it until it reaches one of these terms.
I'll keep reading and collecting people's own experiences on this topic and may elect to go another route the next time I do an oil change.

Thanks for you input, very much appreciated.
GearedGiXXer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 03:05 PM
Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,402
Re: Oil dilemmas

3 months? Put a battery tender on it and some fuel stabilizer in the tank and forget about it. Just starting it for a few minutes is not good...
LynnM is offline  
post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 03:08 PM
!##NULL##!
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Herndon, Virginia
Posts: 10,466
Re: Oil dilemmas

I buy Repsol only

and enjoy getting ripped off cuz I get a free tshirt or free cast iron Repsol replica bike - last one I got was Nicky Hayden's RC211V 2006 - I play with it on my desk at work - vrooom vrroooom
Lean With It is offline  
post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Motorcycle: K3 GSX-R1000
Posts: 8
Re: Oil dilemmas

I store it for winter in 3 months, but for about 5 months though.
GearedGiXXer is offline  
post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 03:16 PM
!##NULL##!
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Herndon, Virginia
Posts: 10,466
Re: Oil dilemmas

heard ya the first 2 times lol
Lean With It is offline  
post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 03:39 PM
Wag
Constantly in trouble now
 
Wag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Motorcycle: '06 Gixxer 1000, Hayabusa
Posts: 16,403
Re: Oil dilemmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnM View Post
3 months? Put a battery tender on it and some fuel stabilizer in the tank and forget about it. Just starting it for a few minutes is not good...
Have to agree with this.

--Wag--
Wag is offline  
post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-27-2010, 02:55 PM
!##NULL##!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 203
Re: Oil dilemmas

Just so you know there is a such thing as motorcycle specific oil and it does make a difference. First the oil in most bikes has to work in three key areas 1 the engine itself 2 the transmission 3 the wet clutch, these motorcycle oils are formulated with specific additive packages to provide proper performance in these key areas. Most automotive type oils are not up to this task for several reasons......... i recommend amsoil 10w 40 motorcycle oil and yes synthetics are available in most all weights including the 10w 40 the manufacturers recommend. Many have run non motorcycle specific oils in there bikes and have had no failures. I feel for maximum equipment life and best performance a motorcycle specific oil is the best choice. Perticuarly the amsoil 10w 40 motorcycle oil. Best of luck hope this helps you to make an informed decision
pafundi is offline  
post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-27-2010, 03:07 PM
!##NULL##!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 203
Re: Oil dilemmas

Use fuel stabilizer when storing. As for starting it in the winter i recommend that and do the same with mine the key is to run it every couple weeks (IMO if an engine sits for a large period of time eventually most oil will drain back to the pan and there will be little oil left coating critical parts in motors top end creating almost dry start conditions when it is finally ran) for at least ten to 15 min at a time when it is started to keep battery charged and also to get engine temp up to full temp for several min this will drive out all condensation and moisture. Hope this helps as well best of luck
pafundi is offline  
post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-27-2010, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
Squid
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Motorcycle: K3 GSX-R1000
Posts: 8
Re: Oil dilemmas

Thanks pafunid.
As I stated yesterday, M1 MX4T is my choice for now. It is a an oil that is so to say formulated for motos and has good reviews all over. I found Amsoil here too, at Walmart again. I was going to get that, but I decided in favor of M1 when I saw that Amsoil sells for $ 20 a quart. I don't think of myself as cheap, but I think one should be sensible with money and this is to me a rip off.
But this is no news, everything is more expensive in Canada than in the US. We should have a slogan that says "Come to Canada, we'll rip you off good".
GearedGiXXer is offline  
post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-27-2010, 11:40 PM
Wag
Constantly in trouble now
 
Wag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Motorcycle: '06 Gixxer 1000, Hayabusa
Posts: 16,403
Re: Oil dilemmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by pafundi View Post
Just so you know there is a such thing as motorcycle specific oil and it does make a difference. First the oil in most bikes has to work in three key areas 1 the engine itself 2 the transmission 3 the wet clutch, these motorcycle oils are formulated with specific additive packages to provide proper performance in these key areas. Most automotive type oils are not up to this task for several reasons......... i recommend amsoil 10w 40 motorcycle oil and yes synthetics are available in most all weights including the 10w 40 the manufacturers recommend. Many have run non motorcycle specific oils in there bikes and have had no failures. I feel for maximum equipment life and best performance a motorcycle specific oil is the best choice. Perticuarly the amsoil 10w 40 motorcycle oil. Best of luck hope this helps you to make an informed decision
I'm at 65,000 miles so far.

I have issue with the "I feel" parameter. Unfortunately, making buying decisions based on "feelings" gets us all into trouble. Why we have bikes in the first place! What I've yet to see is any conclusive study that shows that "motorcycle oil" is in any way superior to any other oil out there.

You also said, "these motorcycle oils are formulated with specific additive packages to provide proper performance in these key areas" but you don't say what those additive packages are and you don't give an explanation of how these mysterious packages work.

Lastly, you said, "Most automotive type oils are not up to this task for several reasons" but you didn't give any reasons at all.

Genuinely, I'm not trying to be a brick here but in all of my reviews, I've never seen any better answers to these questions than what you just gave. In other words, none at all.

Which is to say that as it stands, your comments are without authority.

But, I'm open-minded and willing to learn. If you're right, I would love to know that so if you have any links to some info to back up what you wrote, I'm all ears. Er, eyes.

Thanks, boss!

--Wag--

"Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein
Wag is offline  
post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-27-2010, 11:44 PM
Wag
Constantly in trouble now
 
Wag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Motorcycle: '06 Gixxer 1000, Hayabusa
Posts: 16,403
Re: Oil dilemmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by pafundi View Post
Use fuel stabilizer when storing. As for starting it in the winter i recommend that and do the same with mine the key is to run it every couple weeks (IMO if an engine sits for a large period of time eventually most oil will drain back to the pan and there will be little oil left coating critical parts in motors top end creating almost dry start conditions when it is finally ran) for at least ten to 15 min at a time when it is started to keep battery charged and also to get engine temp up to full temp for several min this will drive out all condensation and moisture. Hope this helps as well best of luck
+1 on using fuel stabilizer when storing.

-1 on starting it every couple of weeks.

Bear in mind that idling a bike isn't going to charge the battery. It has to actually run at a higher rpm to charge it. Best thing is to use a trickle charger.

If you read the owner's manual on how to store long term, it tells you, among other things, to pull the plugs and tip in a half teaspoon of oil into the top of each cylinder. That will eliminate the concern for the oil draining into the bottom of the engine and causing problems when restarting. Further instructions for taking it out of storage follow in the manual.

Which actually works.

--Wag--

"Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein
Wag is offline  
post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-27-2010, 11:45 PM
Chubby Chaser
 
SPL170db's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 2005 GSXR-1000 (track), 2006 GSXR-600 (track/race)
Posts: 57,792
Re: Oil dilemmas

Whatever you do, NEVER switch from conventional oil to synthetic or vice versa.


In other words, once you put one kind of oil into the bike, that is the only oil you can ever run through it again.....EVER.......FOREVER.
SPL170db is offline  
post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-27-2010, 11:45 PM
Wag
Constantly in trouble now
 
Wag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Motorcycle: '06 Gixxer 1000, Hayabusa
Posts: 16,403
Re: Oil dilemmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPL170db View Post
Whatever you do, NEVER switch from conventional oil to synthetic or vice versa.


In other words, once you put one kind of oil into the bike, that is the only oil you can ever run through it again.....EVER.......FOREVER.


--Wag--
Wag is offline  
post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 05:28 AM
Amateur
 
dipkiwi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Zealand
Motorcycle: 600 K8
Posts: 872
Re: Oil dilemmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by pafundi View Post
Just so you know there is a such thing as motorcycle specific oil and it does make a difference. First the oil in most bikes has to work in three key areas 1 the engine itself 2 the transmission 3 the wet clutch, these motorcycle oils are formulated with specific additive packages to provide proper performance in these key areas. Most automotive type oils are not up to this task for several reasons.
A comparison of Mobil 1 15w-50 automotive car oil against its V-Twin 20w-50 motorcycle oil doesn't show increased levels of additives...

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html

Mobil 1 SJ (automotive)
1,058
1,348
163
521
1,717

Mobil 1 SH (automotive)
1,095
1,427
169
553
1,714

Mobil V-Twin (motorcycle)
1,084
1,377
176
499
1,561

Mobil 1 EC
835
955
100
1,497
820


They summarise...

"So what about the Mobil 1 oils? Are they all the same? Graph G compares only the four Mobil oils for each of the five additives. Note that the first three oils, the higher viscosity ones, are all closely grouped. It is the opinion of the author that the additive packages in the old Mobil 1 SH, the current SJ, and the new motorcycle-specific SG/SH are all the same. The Energy Conserving Mobil 1 SJ has lower levels of all additives with the exception of magnesium"... ..."Mobil 1 motorcycle oil: is it worth buying? The viscosity of this bike oil has been changed from Mobil 1's standard 15W-50 to 20W-50. This just happens to be what Harley specs for their bikes. If you smell a marketing ploy here, you may want to trust your nose. The additive package appears the same amongst all the 50 weight Mobil 1 oils"
dipkiwi is offline  
post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 09:43 AM
Wag
Constantly in trouble now
 
Wag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Motorcycle: '06 Gixxer 1000, Hayabusa
Posts: 16,403
Re: Oil dilemmas

dipkiwi, it's like my law professors always say: Follow the money.

Something I've always said. I like the presentation of facts. Got anything else? I'm especially suspicious of Amsoil.

--Wag--
Wag is offline  
post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 02:37 PM
!##NULL##!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 203
Re: Oil dilemmas

i used the wording i feel to soften my response.
sae tests is one source of such information to prove motorcycle oil supperiority in that application. most automotive oils will not meet the standards required to pass these motorcycle oil specific tests
another is the min standards for oil set by the japanese motorcycle manufacturers again most automotive oils will not meet these basic min standards ever heard of jaso? how many car oils you know meet jaso anything let alone the highest jasoma2 rating?
amsoil has done comparison testing even against other motorcycle specific oils using sae testing methods and has done a very good job of demonstrating its products supperiority.
additive packages for motorcycle specific oils do not contain various energy conserving type friction modifiers and contain generally much higher levels of ep additives a few such as zinc phosphorus someone mentioned above but there are also others that are in the additive packages specific to motorcycles and are essential for maximum transmission and valvetrain protection plus base stocks that are shear stable so they can take the transmission gears stress on the oil with out degrading. pull an oil sample and send it off after 3000 miles of regular use in the bike most likely it wont be at the same grade it was when it was new showing inadiquate sheer stability in your application.
there is info available to educate yourself and that will go into much further detail than my limited knowledge can provide if your truely interested. anyhow yes there is a difference. may not be a great difference as some of the high end car oils contain very robust additive packages as it is with several additives that are common for both applications.
my specific brand of motorcycle oil even meets requirements for sae gl1 (a gear oil rating) can you name some car oils that meet that? Few if any can.
automotive oils only have to protect the engine and are formulated accordingly motorcycle oils have to be a jack of all trades and protect the engine the transmission and not interfear with the wet clutchs operation.
pafundi is offline  
post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 04:28 PM
Wag
Constantly in trouble now
 
Wag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Motorcycle: '06 Gixxer 1000, Hayabusa
Posts: 16,403
Re: Oil dilemmas

Just to be clear, I'm not saying you're absolutely, incontrovertibly wrong but I find it notable that you have give ZERO specifics.

Until you do, all of the claims you're making are highly suspect.

Not because I haven't done my homework because I have. I'd like to think I've missed something out there but you haven't convinced me.

You'll have to give some specifics. Thus far, it's been a wild goose chase for me to try to substantiate your assertions and I'm done doing your homework for you.

Bottom line is, I have never found any reason to think that "motorcycle oil" is even clearly definable.

Put up some links, man. We're starving for details.

--Wag--

Quote:
Originally Posted by pafundi View Post
i used the wording i feel to soften my response.
sae tests is one source of such information to prove motorcycle oil supperiority in that application. most automotive oils will not meet the standards required to pass these motorcycle oil specific tests
another is the min standards for oil set by the japanese motorcycle manufacturers again most automotive oils will not meet these basic min standards ever heard of jaso? how many car oils you know meet jaso anything let alone the highest jasoma2 rating?
amsoil has done comparison testing even against other motorcycle specific oils using sae testing methods and has done a very good job of demonstrating its products supperiority.
additive packages for motorcycle specific oils do not contain various energy conserving type friction modifiers and contain generally much higher levels of ep additives a few such as zinc phosphorus someone mentioned above but there are also others that are in the additive packages specific to motorcycles and are essential for maximum transmission and valvetrain protection plus base stocks that are shear stable so they can take the transmission gears stress on the oil with out degrading. pull an oil sample and send it off after 3000 miles of regular use in the bike most likely it wont be at the same grade it was when it was new showing inadiquate sheer stability in your application.
there is info available to educate yourself and that will go into much further detail than my limited knowledge can provide if your truely interested. anyhow yes there is a difference. may not be a great difference as some of the high end car oils contain very robust additive packages as it is with several additives that are common for both applications.
my specific brand of motorcycle oil even meets requirements for sae gl1 (a gear oil rating) can you name some car oils that meet that? Few if any can.
automotive oils only have to protect the engine and are formulated accordingly motorcycle oils have to be a jack of all trades and protect the engine the transmission and not interfear with the wet clutchs operation.

"Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein
Wag is offline  
post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 06:44 PM
!##NULL##!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 203
Re: Oil dilemmas

lol did you even read what i typed and or did you understand it?
in sae testing the fing car oils do not meet the basic motorcycle specific sae tests peroid look no further end of story. obviously they must be different if the motorcycle specific oils do and the automotive oils dont. not to hard to understand tests have proven this.......
rotella a heavy duty diesel oil carries the rating and it is not motorcycle specific (but still cant meet jasoma2) as for your basic car/automotive oils they do not and most are energy conserving.

and as for other guy posting the different mobil one oils additive compositions where can you buy mobil one with only sg rating the new stuff is sm? lol sg is really old. i ask because the sm rating required substantial reductions in the levels of zinc one of the main ep additives(search hotrods flat tappet cams the new oils have been killing flat tappet cams). and all the current automotive oils within the last few years are sm.....

Last edited by pafundi; 08-30-2010 at 06:59 PM.
pafundi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome