Are my competitors cheating? - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com

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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Are my competitors cheating?

Are my competitors cheating?

I compete in a motorcycle powered sport where engine size is limited to 750cc. I am wondering if some of the competitors are cheating and using GSXR 1000 motors and claiming they are 750ís.

I donít know much about these motors. I realize the VIN is different, but due to mounting in our chassis that is very difficult or impossible to see.

I understand the clutch cover has a 2800 on the 750 and 3000 on the 1000. An aftermarket clutch cover or a little time with a grinder and paint eliminates that pretty quickly. Does the 750 clutch cover fit the 1000?

The little bit of information I am finding says the 1000 motors have a slightly higher upper motor mount? Is this easily measurable?

I have done some internet searching and have come up with nothing conclusive. One place said the 1000 was built with the same engine case as the 750 and just had a larger bore and stroke?

Some competitors use different generation motors. They range from about 2000 up to current engines. Are some generations more easily ďcheatedĒ with?

How else can they be differentiated?

Last edited by hitorque; 04-26-2017 at 12:38 PM.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 12:06 PM
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

Look for the stamping on the rear of the engine case
GSXR-1000:
T 708 - 01/02
T 711 - 03/04
T 713 - 05/06
T 715 - 07/08
Not sure what numbers designate K9-L6 as I only deal with K1-K8 1K's
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 12:10 PM
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

Are there rules against engine modifications? I know some mid 2000's gsx 750 can take the intake cam from the 1000 for a little extra boost. Or maybe they have modified pistons for more compression or even a bigger bore (not sure about the bore thing tho)? If that were the case, it would be much harder to catch without getting a peek inside the engine
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 12:36 PM
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

1000cc engines have a separate oil cooler like this.


600/750cc engines have smaller cooler, roughly the shape of an oil filter.
You can't really see it in this picture but it's on the right side of the oil filter.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maniac1886 View Post
Are there rules against engine modifications? I know some mid 2000's gsx 750 can take the intake cam from the 1000 for a little extra boost. Or maybe they have modified pistons for more compression or even a bigger bore (not sure about the bore thing tho)? If that were the case, it would be much harder to catch without getting a peek inside the engine
Mods are legal. I ran a 1000 cam in my '01 750 years ago. Increasing the bore would technically be illegal since the motor would then be over 750cc. However there has never been an engine torn down to check size.


My main concern is others running a complete GSXR 1000 motor and claiming it is a 750. I don't know how to ID that.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 12:43 PM
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitorque View Post
. I don't know how to ID that.
He'll be faster than you.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 12:48 PM
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

The 1000's have an external oil cooler with associated connecting lines. However the connecting lines may be blanked off. A web search will find blanking kits so you know what they look like. 600/750 have a oil/coolant intercooler located next to the oil filter. Look for pics of engines on ebay to see what they look like as they're fairly distinctive.

That leading "T" in OG's listings becomes an "N" or "R" on 600's or 750's. I think that the location of the stamping also gets moved around.

P.S. Here's a 750:

Also note that the coolant line from the water pump outlet to the block connects to the front of the block. As best I know, it always connects at the back on 1000's. But I don't know if all 600/750's are like this (checked K6-600 and it's the same).

P.P.S. Don't know what's possible but a bored and stroked 750 is probably going to be hard to detect without a teardown.

P.P.P.S. That hump above the oil filter is for a secondary balancer. I'm not sure, you'll have to check some pics, but 600's may not have it.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitorque View Post
Increasing the bore would technically be illegal since the motor would then be over 750cc. However there has never been an engine torn down to check size.
It would be cheating. Absolutely. But if it were ME, I'd feel much better cheating knowing no one can tell, or prove it, than walking a blatantly different motor in right in front of their faces. But, as you've mentioned, that's not really the topic at hand.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maniac1886 View Post
It would be cheating. Absolutely. But if it were ME, I'd feel much better cheating knowing no one can tell, or prove it, than walking a blatantly different motor in right in front of their faces. But, as you've mentioned, that's not really the topic at hand.
You hit a home run here. My issue is that I don't recognize the blatantly different motor. I see the differences in the side covers for the different generations, but don't know what to look for to see the blatant differences.


The oil cooler differences mentioned above are EXACTLY what I was looking for. One more dumb question about them... Can the 750 cooler be bolted to the 1000 block? Does it interchange?


I will need to check out the above photos at home. Somehow my work PC doesn't allow me to view them. I did do a search on them and found photos of both coolers - major difference. (BillV's photo shows up, -JK750-s don't)


BillV's - your coolant connection is also very helpful. If that is the case then what I read about the blocks being basically the same isn't true. Definitely a different casting.

Last edited by hitorque; 04-26-2017 at 01:11 PM.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 01:23 PM
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

Bolting a 750 cooler to a 1000 engine is asking for trouble, even more so I assume in race applications. It seems like a good way to blow a motor up, I can't imagine that would be common practice, even for the guys with the deep pockets, or multiple motors on hand.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 01:25 PM
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

"Can the 750 cooler be bolted to the 1000 block? Does it interchange?"

No way that I know of. You could use an intercooler on a 1000 but it would be sitting free of the block and need the associated oil and coolant lines. Whereas the 600/750's oil connections are associated with it being mounted onto the block.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

Don't shoot me guys, but I am researching the BMW S1000RR.
The electronics appear to be much more challenging on that motor.
It is supposed to have marginally more horsepower with 193 on the 12-14 models and 199 on the 15-16's.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-02-2017, 04:30 PM
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Re: Are my competitors cheating?

What are you asking? You want to buy one?
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